Question:

I have just been lurking here for a while but this post made me want to jump in quickly and tell everyone how educational and inspiring this newsgroup is for me.  Like the writer below, I am into weight-lifting and especially aerobics, a combo that helped me drop 70 pounds over the past 18 months (220 to 150–less than I weighed in eighth grade over 10 years ago ). However, I have always wanted to run but worried that I wouldn’t be able to hack it.  Some of my students (I teach high school and have a few track team members in my classes) gave me a lot of hints and encouragement (and took the time to be running partners) and I am now up to some times and speeds I am actually sort of proud of.  I love running more than I ever dreamed I would (when I even dared to dream that my fat self would ever be out there with those joggers and runners) and look forward to getting better and better over time as it becomes a part of my fitness routine and thus my life.  I check this newsgroup almost daily–I love all of the helpful information and advice and reports from different running events.  Every bit of it pushes me to be a better runner, especially since summer is coming up and I plan to use the time off to focus on my time and speed.  You are all to be commended for participating in a newsgroup that doesn’t degenerate into regular flame wars or name-calling or petulance but is actually HELPING a lot of people, myself included–my thanks go out to you. MJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a long time weight-lifter and aerobics enthusiast. Never had run much til started on treadmill a bit over the last few years. Got to liking the treadmill workouts…..and when invited last year to do a 5K run I said why not. I did "well" the first two miles and then as it was near 90 degrees the last third of the run….I wilted a bit and finished in 26:20. I ran my second 5K two months ago in another 5K race and finished with no walking this time, in 25:10. Another 5K run coming up in 8 days. This will be the first one I have trained for. I have been going to the track and running 2-4 miles 4-5 times a week and really enjoying it ! I finish the "run" and feel so relaxed and positive ! The next day I get up and can’t wait to hit the track again. Fighting a bit to try not to overdo it ! Getting excited about the race ! As an aside…I have seen a lady…it turns out she is 72 years old….running all over the city for the past few years, others tell me they have seen her for at least 5 years running. I told her how I see her running all over the place and asked her how far she runs. Turns out she says she runs 25 miles everyday .. 7 days a week !! And I tend to believe her ! Next time I see her I have to ask her what sort of times it takes to run 25. DIdn’t think anyone could do those distances at that frequency …. My best wishes to everyone on newsgroup….I have enjoyed the group muchly…. John

Response:

I am a long time weight-lifter and aerobics enthusiast. Never had run much til started on treadmill a bit over the last few years. Got to liking the treadmill workouts…..and when invited last year to do a 5K run I said why not. I did "well" the first two miles and then as it was near 90 degrees the last third of the run….I wilted a bit and finished in 26:20. I ran my second 5K two months ago in another 5K race and finished with no walking this time, in 25:10. Another 5K run coming up in 8 days. This will be the first one I have trained for. I have been going to the track and running 2-4 miles 4-5 times a week and really enjoying it ! I finish the "run" and feel so relaxed and positive ! The next day I get up and can’t wait to hit the track again. Fighting a bit to try not to overdo it ! Getting excited about the race ! As an aside…I have seen a lady…it turns out she is 72 years old….running all over the city for the past few years, others tell me they have seen her for at least 5 years running. I told her how I see her running all over the place and asked her how far she runs. Turns out she says she runs 25 miles everyday .. 7 days a week !! And I tend to believe her ! Next time I see her I have to ask her what sort of times it takes to run 25. DIdn’t think anyone could do those distances at that frequency …. My best wishes to everyone on newsgroup….I have enjoyed the group muchly…. John

Response:

Welcome to running and to this news group. Hey, your times for your first races are actually quite nice. (It’s taken me a few years to get down to 25:02 5K, just as a comparison if you like). SO ENJOY YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS! have a nice run. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a long time weight-lifter and aerobics enthusiast. Never had run much til started on treadmill a bit over the last few years. Got to liking the treadmill workouts…..and when invited last year to do a 5K run I said why not. I did "well" the first two miles and then as it was near 90 degrees the last third of the run….I wilted a bit and finished in 26:20. I ran my second 5K two months ago in another 5K race and finished with no walking this time, in 25:10. Another 5K run coming up in 8 days. This will be the first one I have trained for. I have been going to the track and running 2-4 miles 4-5 times a week and really enjoying it ! I finish the "run" and feel so relaxed and positive ! The next day I get up and can’t wait to hit the track again. Fighting a bit to try not to overdo it ! Getting excited about the race ! As an aside…I have seen a lady…it turns out she is 72 years old….running all over the city for the past few years, others tell me they have seen her for at least 5 years running. I told her how I see her running all over the place and asked her how far she runs. Turns out she says she runs 25 miles everyday .. 7 days a week !! And I tend to believe her ! Next time I see her I have to ask her what sort of times it takes to run 25. DIdn’t think anyone could do those distances at that frequency …. My best wishes to everyone on newsgroup….I have enjoyed the group muchly…. John

– Ed Prochak Magic Interface, Ltd. ORACLE services 440-498-3702

Response:

I am a long time weight-lifter and aerobics enthusiast. Never had run much til started on treadmill a bit over the last few years. Got to liking the treadmill workouts…..and when invited last year to do a 5K run I said why not. I did "well" the first two miles and then as it was near 90 degrees the last third of the run….I wilted a bit and finished in 26:20. I ran my second 5K two months ago in another 5K race and finished with no walking this time, in 25:10. Another 5K run coming up in 8 days. This will be the first one I have trained for. I have been going to the track and running 2-4 miles 4-5 times a week and really enjoying it ! I finish the "run" and feel so relaxed and positive ! The next day I get up and can’t wait to hit the track again. Fighting a bit to try not to overdo it ! Getting excited about the race !

It sounds like we hooked another one, guys. Who gets the trophy? <g <snip I told her how I see her running all over the place and asked her how far she runs. Turns out she says she runs 25 miles everyday .. 7 days a week !! And I tend to believe her ! Next time I see her I have to ask her what sort of times it takes to run 25. DIdn’t think anyone could do those distances at that frequency ….

Good instincts.  I think it’s safe to say that no one – and I mean NO ONE,  runs 25 miles a day, 7 days a week. Not the Kenyans, not the Ethiopians, no one. Especially not 72 year old ladies. I correspond frequently with a 60+ lady that does the Ironman regularly and is the current  Olympic Distance Triathlon World Champion in her Age Group.  I can assure you she doesn’t do that kind of mileage. Perhaps the lady mis-spoke or you mis-heard. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03

Response:

She runs 25 miles everyday?  I’m sorry but that’s kinda hard to believe but I guess if she really does do it then good for her. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a long time weight-lifter and aerobics enthusiast. Never had run much til started on treadmill a bit over the last few years. Got to liking the treadmill workouts…..and when invited last year to do a 5K run I said why not. I did "well" the first two miles and then as it was near 90 degrees the last third of the run….I wilted a bit and finished in 26:20. I ran my second 5K two months ago in another 5K race and finished with no walking this time, in 25:10. Another 5K run coming up in 8 days. This will be the first one I have trained for. I have been going to the track and running 2-4 miles 4-5 times a week and really enjoying it ! I finish the "run" and feel so relaxed and positive ! The next day I get up and can’t wait to hit the track again. Fighting a bit to try not to overdo it ! Getting excited about the race ! As an aside…I have seen a lady…it turns out she is 72 years old….running all over the city for the past few years, others tell me they have seen her for at least 5 years running. I told her how I see her running all over the place and asked her how far she runs. Turns out she says she runs 25 miles everyday .. 7 days a week !! And I tend to believe her ! Next time I see her I have to ask her what sort of times it takes to run 25. DIdn’t think anyone could do those distances at that frequency …. My best wishes to everyone on newsgroup….I have enjoyed the group muchly…. John

Response:

She runs 25 miles everyday?  I’m sorry but that’s kinda hard to believe but I guess if she really does do it then good for her.

I wonder what she does for a long run.    -Phil

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just been lurking here for a while but this post made me want to jump in quickly and tell everyone how educational and inspiring this newsgroup is for me.  Like the writer below, I am into weight-lifting and especially aerobics, a combo that helped me drop 70 pounds over the past 18 months (220 to 150–less than I weighed in eighth grade over 10 years ago ). However, I have always wanted to run but worried that I wouldn’t be able to hack it.  Some of my students (I teach high school and have a few track team members in my classes) gave me a lot of hints and encouragement (and took the time to be running partners) and I am now up to some times and speeds I am actually sort of proud of.  I love running more than I ever dreamed I would (when I even dared to dream that my fat self would ever be out there with those joggers and runners) and look forward to getting better and better over time as it becomes a part of my fitness routine and thus my life.  I check this newsgroup almost daily–I love all of the helpful information and advice and reports from different running events.  Every bit of it pushes me to be a better runner, especially since summer is coming up and I plan to use the time off to focus on my time and speed.  You are all to be commended for participating in a newsgroup that doesn’t degenerate into regular flame wars or name-calling or petulance but is actually HELPING a lot of people, myself included–my thanks go out to you. MJ

Good to hear from you all…..I’ll followup on the lady runner…..and GO MJ !! I ran 4 1/2 miles tonight at the track…mmmmhh…felt good !! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

In article I think it’s safe to say that no one – and I mean NO ONE,  runs 25 miles a day, 7 days a week

That’s 175 miles a week, which has been exceeded by many people, doing two-a-days.  The old lady didn’t say she did a 25-mile run every day, only that she ran 25 miles a day, which is very different.  Assuming she’s retired, she could do five before breakfast, then run to her friend’s house for lunch, walk the dog in the afternoon, etc.

Response:

In article I think it’s safe to say that no one – and I mean NO ONE,  runs 25 miles a day, 7 days a week That’s 175 miles a week, which has been exceeded by many people, doing two-a-days.  The old lady didn’t say she did a 25-mile run every day, only that she ran 25 miles a day, which is very different.  

Sorry,  but I’ll stand by my statement. You say "many" people exceed 175 miles a week?   I can offer this. Matt Mahoney started a "Million Mile Run" a while back and has been tracking the mileage of a number of ultra runners at: http://www.he.net/~mmahoney/ultra/million.htm The top 5 runners there have gone over 10,000 miles in 28 months. They range from 10,683 (Steve Morrow) to 12,428 (Bill Misner). For Bill that’s an average of 443 miles a month, or 15 miles a day. For Steve it’s about 360 a month or 12 a day.  Now, if these elite ultra runners "only" average that, just what chance do you think there is that a 72 yr old lady is besting them by 10 miles a day? Or that "many" runners do, too? Your evidence? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03

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Question:

Does anyone know the course at the Tinman?  The area is rather hilly and I’m assuming the bike and run are as well.  Any clues or experiences?

Ride and run lots of hills! There are two races that share the same course, a short and long version. The swim is the only flat spot on the course, a half mile diamond in murky lake water.  Long course does two loops, short course does one. Wetsuits were allowed last year, though they weren’t needed. The bike is tough.  About six miles out of town to a loop, then the same six miles back.  Long course does the loop twice.  My computer read 59M for the route last year.  Bring lots of water/Gatorade, since there is only one water stop in the middle of the loop.  And they usually hand up water in cups, so be prepared to stop and refill a bottle or two. And bring some small gears.  I used my little chainring a lot.  Many people do the first loop too hard and pay for it on round two.  There are about three really tough climbs on each loop, each one about 3/4 to 1 mile long. The run is tough, but the hills aren’t as bad as the bike.  It’s an out-and- back (10k for short, 20k for long) and follows the same roads as the bike out.  Last year there were plenty of water stops on the run, but be careful not to throw the Gatorade-like stuff over your head.  I did this last year and couldn’t see for about a mile. 8^) Last year the winning male did about 4:25, female about 4:50. WARNING!  This is a very laid back race, many corners are not staffed, no one checks that you did all the loops in the swim or bike, etc. But I recommend it for a tough adventure. Good luck.  I wanted to do this race this year but it conflicts with Mrs Ts. Todd Jensen

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Hey, Does anyone know the course at the Tinman?  The area is rather hilly and I’m assuming the bike and run are as well.  Any clues or experiences? Thanks, Brian

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The year I did the race the water was the color and consistency of Pea Soup.  I did not warm up in it and was glad I was only doing the short course.  Yes, I think I recall some hills. Karen C. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, Does anyone know the course at the Tinman?  The area is rather hilly and I’m assuming the bike and run are as well.  Any clues or experiences? Thanks, Brian

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Question:

some of UCSB was up this weekend, and the rest i think are going next weekend, depending on the weather. see ya there scott

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Hey, who was down at Lake San Antonio this past weekend besides members of the Carmel Valley Triathlon Club? I can find no other more perverse bike course, and loved it , as always ! The run has a special place in my heart, too. Anyone going next weekend? Lynne

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See you there on Sunday. Anyone else going to Lake San Antonio on Sunday??

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l"Lynne Fonda-Kosorek" See you there on Sunday. Anyone else going to Lake San Antonio on Sunday??

Our Easter weekend trip was cancelled due to rain.  We are going up Friday, doing the bike on Sat., & run on Sunday. Gary McMurtrey Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

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Question:

:       My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer : prior to my sophomore high school cross country season… :       Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. : I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed : sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be : running twice a day.  He said that he thought that all elite high : school runners probably trained twice a day… Well, nothing personal, but you’re not an elite high school runner.  So why exactly did he expect you to do two-a-days?  I’d wager that the few HS elites who run twice a day *first* showed that they had extraordinary potential while doing one-a-days, and only later moved to two-a-days to attempt to squeeze out the last little bit. Anecdotally, the top six guys on my HS team (long, long ago) ran miles of something like 4:07, 4:15, 4:18, 4:23, 4:27, and 4:35.  We never ran twice a day.  A friend of mine coached the West Region Kinney champion a few years ago.  He never did two-a-days.  A training partner of mine was a Kinney National champion, circa 1980.  He didn’t do two-a-days. Clearly, the thinking that "all" HS elites run twice a day is in error. If you are talked into attempting doubles, keep it only during a base building phase of your training, and stop it when you start hill runs, tempo workouts, etc. -pfrench

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I am going to be captain of the team this year (my junior season), and I would like to lead the team from the front, not just by example. Andrew McNett

Andrew, I agree with just about everything you wrote above.  It seems you know the answer, and are just looking for justification. The bigger question is how you will get your father’s support as you begin to train smarter….. Also, congradulations on being your team’s captain.  That is a big honor and responsibility.  However, I would caution you to keep your desire to be 1st place varsity runner separate being an excellent team leader.  Those are two very different roles and tasks.  Recognize them as that, support every runner, from the slowest to the one or two that may be faster than you, and be a leader to your team no matter what position you run. –ed

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I hate to hear about parental pressure of this sort.  Remember some things.  You should be competing for yourself, because you enjoy it and because you are good at it.  Do not do it for your father, mother, coach, etc.  Do it because you have desire for it. Yes, you were overtrained without a doubt.  Many uninformed people of sports physiology do not have the slighest idea what overtraining is. They are of the old school which says more is better.  Many parents and high school coaches still think this way.  You sound luck in that your coach understands the concept of overtraining. Mine did not.  During my high school swimming day our coach was so focused on winning state that he overtrained the whole team.  I pleaded to him to cut down the training and he would not listen.  At the state meet every single member of our team swam slower than the time they had been averaging all year.  He still did not understand at the end. Make your dad read some literature on the subject.  Sit him down with your coach so your coach can explain the theory behind overtraining. Measure you resting heart rate every morning.  Take care of your self, overtraining is serious. If you would like additional infro on overtraining literature let me know. Brandon

Response:

        Hello RST and Rec.Running!         My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer

-bits snipped- Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be running twice a day.

-bits snipped-  After about a month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to get those times to where I thought they should be.  In the end, however, I got slower and slower and picked up a serious case of knee tendinitis.  My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.

-bits snipped-  However, this argument about 2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and anger.         If you think you can tell what’s going on from what I’ve described, please lend your opinion!  It could help solve a long standing conflict between my father and myself. Andrew McNett

Hi Andrew, this definetely sounds like serious overtraining to me. Sleeping problems, fatigue, nutrition problems, orthopedic problems…typical symptoms for overtraining.  If I was in your place, I would  quit the 2-a-day-running-schedule for at least early season for a period of 2-3 month. During this time, I would try to focus on cross-training, not on running. Try to take the weight of your feet, go biking or swimming as a second training unit a day and build up a solid base of aerobic fitness with the bike (long rides + 3 hrs, starting maybe with 1 hr, but I don`t know your biking abilities), long swims (1 hr) in the pool. This will help to keep orthopedic problems away, and the gain of aerobic potential will help your running. Also do some weight training to strengthen your quadriceps, but do it *smart*, this means no high weights, only 5-10 kg will be enough, but lots of repetitions. Find a trainer for this ! When you feel ready for it take up the 2-a-day-schedule, but only during the last cycles of pre-race-season-training. Best is to ask a qualified trainer for a good long-term training schedule. As I said: I think your trainers + you are right. Sorry, Daddy your wrong. Don`t use so much pressure on your boy, he is giving himself enough of that. Hope this helps Hannes

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<<        My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer prior to my sophomore high school cross country season.  However, it is my opinion that I overtrained. My reply:  Overtrained, possibly depressed. Who am I?  a triathlete, former college soccer player and current physician in Family Medicine and Emergency Medicine Evidence of overtraining:  Fatigue, sleep disturbance, appetite changes, decreasing speed at an age and in a situation (trainining) when speed should be increasing, possible irritability. Evidence of depression:  the same, plus a father who seems to be pressuring you instead of enjoying you. How can you tell the difference between depression and overtraining? Taper for one week down to 10 miles in 3 sessions of 3 miles each, NOT fast.  Get 9 hours sleep or more daily during that week.  If the symptoms go away, you were overtrained.  If they don’t, you are depressed. WARNING #1: If you are under 18 years old you will not FEEL depressed. You will feel like people are giving you a hard time, pressuring you.  You will feel like your friends are jerks – that most everyone is a jerk.  Your friends and family will notice that you have fatigue, a negative attitude and a quick temper.  You only feel depressed once you develope insight, which occurs at about 17-18 years old.  That is why driving, voting, military service, drinking, etc happen later. WARNING #2:  If you are over 12 years old your mind prefers to stay up late, but your body needs at least 9 hours of sleep.  School always starts at the same time.  So you know what to do, right?  BTW, in my practice much of the parent-child conflict is because of depression or sleep deprivation.  Sometimes it is the kids’ problem, sometimes the parents’ problem, and sometimes both.   Write me personally if you want to know more about depression.  (Anger is a cardinal sign in men) Byron well-reasoned post. J. Byron Walthall, Jr. Charlotte, NC, USA

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -McNett) writes: Hello RST and Rec.Running!    My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer prior to my sophomore high school cross country season.  However, it is my opinion that I overtrained.  My opinion is shared by my coaches and other runners.  I would really like it if the kind readers of my favorite two newsgroups could help figure out who is correct, or more correct.    Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be running twice a day.  He said that he thought that all elite high school runners probably trained twice a day.  I decided to try 2-a-days early on in my summer training. Prior to starting 2-a-days, I had been running between 35 and 40 miles per week.  On the 2-a-day days I was covering between 7 and 10 miles in total.  After about a month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to get those times to where I thought they should be.  In the end, however, I got slower and slower and picked up a serious case of knee tendinitis.      To make a long story short, I went into cross country injured and fatigued.  I still ran hard in practice and races, but midway through the season I developed serious plantar fasciitis causing my arches to fall completely.  I also developed Achilles tendinitis.  My race times got slower and slower, and I finished the last race of the season about a minute slower than I had as a freshman (we race at 3 miles to 5k).    My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.  I had been shooting for a top varsity position (2 or 3) and in the end I ended up being the last varsity guy on my team.  Also, I  have to wear orthotics constantly now because of my foot troubles.      This topic came up because I’m in summer training for cross country again, and we’ve been arguing about my training regimen.  I am going to be captain of the team this year (my junior season), and I would like to lead the team from the front, not just by example.  I have the ability to this, I believe, if I come into the season fresh but in good shape.  I am currently running better than I have since the early stages of last summer’s training, during which I did some of my best running ever.  However, this argument about 2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and anger.    If you think you can tell what’s going on from what I’ve described, please lend your opinion!  It could help solve a long standing conflict between my father and myself.  

Simple:  Make appointments for your coaches to speak to your father, and if they can’t convince him, tell him you intend to rely on your coaches’ superior information and experience anyway.  Suggest he get his satisfaction by running himself.  It’s not as if your relationship is conditioned on the amount of reflected glory he getsfrom your athletic achievements, is it?

Response:

Normally, I’d answer you privately only. But this sort of thing comes up often, though we don’t often discuss it on these newsgroups. So my answer is partly geared towards those others in your situation who are dealing with arguments with their parents. If I assume something that isn’t relevant to you, then forgive me. Were it me, I would arrange a meeting between myself, my father, and my coaches. I would lay it out just as you have, without challenges or anger, and I would ask them to discuss it together. The coaches will be experienced, and I’m assuming your dad is not. But he is experienced in wanting you to achieve the best you can, and he may be reading a running mag that describes 25-year-old marathoners who run 90-120-mile weeks. Even if you disagree with him, treat him with respect. The Bible, which is surprisingly relevant here, says "Children, obey your parents", and "Honor your father and mother". Notice it does not say, "Adults, obey your parents". At your age, you are on the border of being an adult, and you will have to earn that status in resolving this dispute. That means avoiding anger, listening to him, and respecting him in other ways. It’s not so easy even for many adults, believe me. Truly, though, your coaches should help you discuss it with your father. You can’t have two coaches and maintain peace, and they need to ask your father to let them do their jobs. Of course, we are only hearing your side of the story. You also need to make sure that the story you are telling is really, really the truth.We don’t need the truth, but you need to make sure you are not kidding yourself. You cannot win a moral victory unless your side of the street is spotlessly clean. That takes work and honesty. But you don’t sound like you are doing that. In fact, you are one of the few high-school contributors I’ve seen around here that can actually write a decent sentence. If you use the same clarity and non-emotional tone when you meet with your coaches and father, then you improve your chances for success a lot. I try to imagine myself at your age following this advice. I never did. I had to learn all these lessons the hard way. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Hello RST and Rec.Running!    My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer prior to my sophomore high school cross country season.  However, it is my opinion that I overtrained.  My opinion is shared by my coaches and other runners.  I would really like it if the kind readers of my favorite two newsgroups could help figure out who is correct, or more correct.    Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be running twice a day.  He said that he thought that all elite high school runners probably trained twice a day.  I decided to try 2-a-days early on in my summer training. Prior to starting 2-a-days, I had been running between 35 and 40 miles per week.  On the 2-a-day days I was covering between 7 and 10 miles in total.  After about a month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to get those times to where I thought they should be.  In the end, however, I got slower and slower and picked up a serious case of knee tendinitis.      To make a long story short, I went into cross country injured and fatigued.  I still ran hard in practice and races, but midway through the season I developed serious plantar fasciitis causing my arches to fall completely.  I also developed Achilles tendinitis.  My race times got slower and slower, and I finished the last race of the season about a minute slower than I had as a freshman (we race at 3 miles to 5k).    My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.  I had been shooting for a top varsity position (2 or 3) and in the end I ended up being the last varsity guy on my team.  Also, I  have to wear orthotics constantly now because of my foot troubles.      This topic came up because I’m in summer training for cross country again, and we’ve been arguing about my training regimen.  I am going to be captain of the team this year (my junior season), and I would like to lead the team from the front, not just by example.  I have the ability to this, I believe, if I come into the season fresh but in good shape.  I am currently running better than I have since the early stages of last summer’s training, during which I did some of my best running ever.  However, this argument about 2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and anger.    If you think you can tell what’s going on from what I’ve described, please lend your opinion!  It could help solve a long standing conflict between my father and myself.      Thank you for your time, Andrew McNett South Whidbey High School Cross Country and Track Whidbey Island, WA p.s. I am 5′10", 140 lbs.

Rick Denney Remember–free advice is worth what you pay for it!

Response:

|had been running between 35 and 40 miles per week.  On the 2-a-day |days I was covering between 7 and 10 miles in total.  After about a Compared to what we did back when I was in HS-XC, 35-40 is about right; we usually did 30-50 over five or six days (we often did various invitationals on the weekend).  The long runs were almost always on hills. |month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble We only doubled up at the very beginning of the season to get everyone back in shape quickly.  Almost no one trained over the summer (yes, we had a very good team despite this . |sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and |timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to Warning signs — at least one of the big 3 isn’t right: too much (or too hard) training, not enough good sleep, or wrong nutrition. |       My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.  I had Your father is a knob-head. |been shooting for a top varsity position (2 or 3) and in the end I |ended up being the last varsity guy on my team.  Also, I  have to wear There’s only so much that training can do.  Talent (ie. genetics) count in a big way.  I was known as a training fanatic ‘cuz I did soccer three times a week in addition to doing every single XC training run completely (I like running .  I ran 5th or 4th (it varied) for our XC team. Our top runner won at the CA state finals and placed at the nationals. He probably did only 3/4 of the runs.  Our #2 and #3 runners had similar lackadaisical training schedules.  ’Course I could give ‘em all a 50m head start and still beat ‘em on a 100m sprint … well, almost. Anyway, it could be that you’re just not cut out for XC.  The real way to recognize talent in yourself (it’s easy in others) is to look around at the effort everyone else is putting in.  If you’re barely trying and doing as well as those that are knocking they’re brains out, then you’ve found your niche!  Ya gotta ride the wave you’re on. | for cross country again, and we’ve been arguing about my training … |2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I |overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and Hmmm.  There are lots of solutions.  Number 1: lie, "Hey Dad, off to a run.", then go do what you want.  I was appalled when I discovered that other kids would actually tell their parents what they really did. Amazing, eh?  Parents are like mushrooms … 2: Compromise.  Double up, but with running and swimming.  All three of our top runners were also swimmers.  Not that they competed on the swim team, but they did swim regularly; that’s usually what they did when they didn’t do a complete run.  They’d run off to #2’s place (he had a pool) and swim for a while, then run back. IMHO, there is no better cardio-vascular workout than swimming.  It also feels great when you’re sore from a hard run.  And, at least this way you’re unlikely to develop any more stress injuries. 3: Tell Dad to stop behaving like a knob-head.  He is, trust me.  I’ve seen knob-heads in action, and he qualifies.  [BTW, only tell him this if you have a really hot temper and like exercising it.] |Andrew McNett |South Whidbey High School Cross Country and Track |Whidbey Island, WA Ah, from the NW, where XC is both devil and deity.  No wonder … Good luck! – Tim Iverson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Hello RST and Rec.Running!         My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer prior to my sophomore high school cross country season.  However, it is my opinion that I overtrained.  My opinion is shared by my coaches and other runners.  I would really like it if the kind readers of my favorite two newsgroups could help figure out who is correct, or more correct.         Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be running twice a day.  He said that he thought that all elite high school runners probably trained twice a day.  I decided to try 2-a-days early on in my summer training. Prior to starting 2-a-days, I had been running between 35 and 40 miles per week.  On the 2-a-day days I was covering between 7 and 10 miles in total.  After about a month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to get those times to where I thought they should be.  In the end, however, I got slower and slower and picked up a serious case of knee tendinitis.         To make a long story short, I went into cross country injured and fatigued.  I still ran hard in practice and races, but midway through the season I developed serious plantar fasciitis causing my arches to fall completely.  I also developed Achilles tendinitis.  My race times got slower and slower, and I finished the last race of the season about a minute slower than I had as a freshman (we race at 3 miles to 5k).         My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.  I had been shooting for a top varsity position (2 or 3) and in the end I ended up being the last varsity guy on my team.  Also, I  have to wear orthotics constantly now because of my foot troubles.         This topic came up because I’m in summer training  for cross country again, and we’ve been arguing about my training regimen.  I am going to be captain of the team this year (my junior season), and I would like to lead the team from the front, not just by example.  I have the ability to this, I believe, if I come into the season fresh but in good shape.  I am currently running better than I have since the early stages of last summer’s training, during which I did some of my best running ever.  However, this argument about 2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and anger.         If you think you can tell what’s going on from what I’ve described, please lend your opinion!  It could help solve a long standing conflict between my father and myself.         Thank you for your time, Andrew McNett South Whidbey High School Cross Country and Track Whidbey Island, WA p.s. I am 5′10", 140 lbs.

So YOU think you overtrained, and YOUR COACH thinks you overtrained, and you’re asking whether you should believe your father instead of your own body and a presumably competent coach? Parents… sheesh.

Response:

Look, I am not in the business of settling domestic disputes. I only know what I know. By the sound of things, based on your race distances, you are WAY overtrained. Knee tendinitis, plantar faschitis and the achilles tendinits are three classic examples of an overtrained runner. Not to mention the sleep disturbances and appetite decrease. Also, your slower times are an indicator. The body needs time to recoup. You cannot continue to tear it down and not give it any time to recover, you’ll just get run down. I liken overtraining to sleep deprivation. When my son was born, my wife and I walked around in a constant daze because our bodies were not recovering from the odd hours, reduced sleep and increased work load on us. Does this sound like you? Triathletes like us in RST are somewhat lucky in a sense. We have three sports to spread the load out over. Sure, you can easily become overtrained in triathlon, but chances are because running is really the only real "impact" sport, it may show up only as extreme fatigue, sleeplessness, and irratibility…not necessarily all the leg problems you have endured. My advice is to do the following: 1) Longer runs at less intensity. It doesn’t necessarily sound like your mileage is way overboard, probably just the way in which you are logging the miles. Right now, maybe do one or two speed workouts per week at the most. 2) Rest, rest, rest. Monitor your resting heart rate. If you wake up, after urinating, and your heart rate is 10-15 beats over normal resting rate, you may be overtrained. 3) Consult with your coach. I can’t imagine any self-respecting HS coach would not be able to spot the signals of an overtrained runner. 4) Consult with your Dad. He’s the only one you have. Good Luck! Wes

Response:

        Hello RST and Rec.Running!         My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer prior to my sophomore high school cross country season.  However, it is my opinion that I overtrained.  My opinion is shared by my coaches and other runners.  I would really like it if the kind readers of my favorite two newsgroups could help figure out who is correct, or more correct.         Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be running twice a day.  He said that he thought that all elite high school runners probably trained twice a day.  I decided to try 2-a-days early on in my summer training. Prior to starting 2-a-days, I had been running between 35 and 40 miles per week.  On the 2-a-day days I was covering between 7 and 10 miles in total.  After about a month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to get those times to where I thought they should be.  In the end, however, I got slower and slower and picked up a serious case of knee tendinitis.           To make a long story short, I went into cross country injured and fatigued.  I still ran hard in practice and races, but midway through the season I developed serious plantar fasciitis causing my arches to fall completely.  I also developed Achilles tendinitis.  My race times got slower and slower, and I finished the last race of the season about a minute slower than I had as a freshman (we race at 3 miles to 5k).         My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.  I had been shooting for a top varsity position (2 or 3) and in the end I ended up being the last varsity guy on my team.  Also, I  have to wear orthotics constantly now because of my foot troubles.           This topic came up because I’m in summer training  for cross country again, and we’ve been arguing about my training regimen.  I am going to be captain of the team this year (my junior season), and I would like to lead the team from the front, not just by example.  I have the ability to this, I believe, if I come into the season fresh but in good shape.  I am currently running better than I have since the early stages of last summer’s training, during which I did some of my best running ever.  However, this argument about 2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and anger.         If you think you can tell what’s going on from what I’ve described, please lend your opinion!  It could help solve a long standing conflict between my father and myself.           Thank you for your time, Andrew McNett South Whidbey High School Cross Country and Track Whidbey Island, WA p.s. I am 5′10", 140 lbs.

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Question:

Anybody else doing this race this weekend?  I haven’t received any confirmation or further info since I sent in my registration a month or two ago.  Anybody have any inforomation about it? TIA. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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Anybody else doing this race this weekend?  I haven’t received any confirmation or further info since I sent in my registration a month or two ago.  Anybody have any inforomation about it?

Same story for me — no reply yet.  It took 5 or 6 weeks for them to just mail me an entry form, so I’m guessing they’re a little behind in their paper work.  Aptos is about 20 minutes from my house, so I was planning to drive up early on Saturday and scope it out.  I’ll post whatever information I come up with. Good luck and hope to see you all there. The Carmel Group "Of course the game is rigged, but if you don’t play you can’t win." R.A.H.

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I sent in my application just a couple of weeks ago and have not heard anything back. I plan on having my bike checked before noon, then hitting the packet pickup when it opens, followed by a cruise around the course. The note in the entry info about the bike course being 90% on a new San Andreas Road bike path has me a bit concerned, but what the heck, it’ll probably be low key and fun anyway. I’ll be wearing my "lucky" Jimmy Buffet T-shirt in the transition area so any RSTers say Hi Chris Mueller

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Question:

where did you get a copy of the Midwest Multisport Magazine? I’m looking for a store that might carry this or the typical free race calendar stuff in the north Kansas city area…

I got a copy in the mail. Published 6x a year, Color front and back cover, large size, tabloid format. Mostly regional schedule, calendar info, not very many articles. The editor Shannon Kurek is a dedicated race director and triathlete. If it can keep going in today’s rugged economy, MWM has real potential to be a popular grass roots type of magazine.  It reminds me of Lew Kidder’s Great Lakes Triathlete and early version of  Triathlon Today! back in the late 80s. Probably would be very helpful if people voluntereed to write for it and send in good pictures. add: MWM Health and Fitness Promotions 2029 Riverside Dr. #102 Columbus, OH 43221 (614) 487-1916 — JJ Jeffrey Justice Oceanside, CA

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I just got the premier issue of Health and Fitness’ Midwest Multisport and it’s great.  Not only does it have good articles about people I’ve not only heard, but seen and raced on the same courses as, but also a good calender.  In addition to all of this it has entry forms for many (if not all) of the H & F events.  More of less due to that I now plan to do 4 of their Cliff Bar Series races.  Great job Health and Fitness!!

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     Where would I get a copy of this mag and does it cover the St. Louis area?  …around 75F today.                                     Bill Webber

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Question:

I recall seeing an inspirational quote posted on one of the rec* newsgroups (running, triathlon or cycling) in Latin that approximated "Better, Stronger, Faster."  Does anybody recall what it was? –Stefan

Response:

I recall seeing an inspirational quote posted on one of the rec* newsgroups (running, triathlon or cycling) in Latin that approximated "Better, Stronger, Faster."  Does anybody recall what it was? –Stefan

Try Citius, Altius, Fortius That’s ?, higher, stronger

Response:

I recall seeing an inspirational quote posted on one of the rec* newsgroups (running, triathlon or cycling) in Latin that approximated "Better, Stronger, Faster."  Does anybody recall what it was? –Stefan

Ah, it’s familiar.  Yes… it’s the introduction to the "six million dollar man":   Gentleman, we can rebuild him; better, stronger, faster, longer" They don’t make tv shows like that any more! —

Response:

Question:

I have had some little injuries that I have been having some trouble getting completely cleared up and I managed to get them worse by doing a 10 miler on Sunday. My doctor has suggested a partial rest for 3 weeks consisting of not running more than 8 mpw and supplementing this with water running. So, it’s time to get acquainted with water running. I have been told than many runners have used this to good advantage to recover from injuries and yet still stay running, so to speak. The idea seems to be that you get a thing called a wet vest, which helps you to stay a float vertical with your head above the water. You wear this and go in deep water, and move your legs and arms like you would if you were running. You don’t get anywhere, and you look pretty silly, but you have to put up with that. I tried this this morning, but without the wet vest, since I haven’t managed to buy one yet. It seems to be sort of do-able without the vest, but it looks even sillier, because you constantly look like you are about to drown. I found it quite hard to get into the flow and make it feel like running. I suspect this will be somewhat better when I get the vest, but even so it seems hard to do a running motion when you are not getting anywhere. Does anyone have any tricks for this? Another problem is that there is no way to know how far you have run. The way to solve this is just to go by time, but then I want to make sure that I ran as fast as I normally do, and what does that mean? Well, I used the HR monitor and tried to maintain a similar HR to what I would on a similar run, but I couldn’t do it. I found it very difficult to get my heart rate very high in the water. I know this happens with swimming, but I thought maybe that had to do with the fact that swimming is mainly upper body, but perhaps it has more to do with weighlessness. This too might be different when I get the wet vest, because maybe it too had something to do with not really being able to get into the flow. But perhaps I should adjust my target HR a bit for being in the water. If so, are there any suggestions as to how much I should adjust it? In general, has anyone written anything about training technique for running in the water? I’m sure there are a lot of other questions I could ask about this, but I can’t immediately think of them. In general any suggestions anyone has for making this as much as possible like running would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

I have discovered there is more than one flotation device for this. As well  as the Wet Vest, there is also the Aquajogger, which is quite a bit cheaper and seems to be easier to get.  Instead of a vest it is more like a belt with a float attached. Do you think it is just as good as the Wet Vest?

Response:

Some thoughts: Mary Decker Slaney water trained for several months due to injuries and came back and I believe broke the US 3000M run. Steve Scott used water training extensively for rehabing injuries. Rick Vandertie of Movin’ Shoes who has used and taught water training for about 10 years, does a weekly class at the Mission  Beach Plunge from about 5 to 6:30 on Thursday evenings.  He has vests there that people can use to see if they like it and without having to buy a vest which I believe run about $26.  The vest/flotation device is fashioned so that it can keep you vertical and you practice your running form.    You can reach Rick at 619-446-1656.  He can give you the info you need to use your water training to develop the form you need and minimize the injuries. In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer-rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic,  est. 1975

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feel like running. I suspect this will be somewhat better when I get the vest, but even so it seems hard to do a running motion when you are not getting anywhere. Does anyone have any tricks for this?

the key is to keep a vertical (or almost vertical) position in the water. don’t yield to the temptation to lean forward into the swimming position … the vest will help. I used the HR monitor and tried to maintain a similar HR to what I would on a similar run, but I couldn’t do it. I found it very difficult to get my heart rate very high in the water. I know this happens with swimming, but I thought maybe that had to do with the fact that swimming is mainly upper body, but perhaps it has more to do with weighlessness.  

i’ve heard that the main factors are the cooler water temperature, and also hydrostatic pressure (which makes it easier for the heart to get blood back up from your lower extremities.)   just find a hr that feels like a good effort, and then use the monitor to ensure that you maintain that effort. its easy to slack in the water, especially with the vest. but with the hrm you can keep yourself from doing that. one more thing. as i’m sure you’ve noticed, water running is boring. find an injured (or sympathetic) friend to drag along with you. it makes it a lot more fun.

Response:

Hi Shelly Walsh, Re: Running in the water? I’ve been doing some water running over the past nine years and I frenquently teach classes for groups or individuals.  My first time doing water running was similar to yourself when I became injured and a doctor suggested "no running".  Therefore a option which I only heard of was water running and yes like you I found it very dificult because of the lack of information mostly.  Following are a few things to keep in mind when water running: – Keep your head & neck up-right on your shoulders. People have a tendency to lean forward too much and this over time can do two things.   One, make it uncomfortable for breathing and two, cause lower back strain on your longer workouts. – Move your legs in a smooth & rythmic manner.  This allows you to not bob up and down while going from one end of the pool to the other. – Think of an hoofed animal pawing at the ground.  This is the motion your legs should have or feel when in the water.   – Hands at your side, just like running.  When the hand goes forward, close the hand and then when the hand is coming back to your side open the hand to cup the water with the fingers and pull the water. (this helps that speed thing, but only a bit) – Water running helps your running form. When in the water and running, if your form isn’t quite up to snuff, these inefficeincies will show up quite quickly in the water.  EG. Poor side to side movement with your arms (or twisting) results in an exagerated serpintine movement through the water.  So concentrate on your feet, knees, hands and elbows going straight forward and back.  Thus making your line from one end of the pool to the other as short as posible and as efficeint as posible. The above mentioned ideas are the most commonly made mistakes I see when people try water running.  You also had a few questions re: Heart rate, With or without a belt, Distances, and Speed or lack there of? Heart rate, I find your heart rate because of the pressure of the water against the outside of your body is always a little lower.  Therefore I’d suggest to exercise at an effort which you perceive is the intensity which is compatable physically to that when you run outside.  IE… Long breathing is somewhat labored.   Note. If doing Intervals you’ll find your rest period between the repeats could be reduced at least by half.  EG. Outside you run 400m in 90 sec. then rest for 90 sec..  In the pool you run hard at an equal perceived effort for 90 sec. then rest for 45 sec. With or without the belt or vest?  If you can find a public pool near you which has water running belts available, I’d strongly incourage you to source this pool out.  My reasons are, for a first time water runner the aid of a buoyancy belt allows you to relax and concentrate on developing a good running form.  And secondly, you may become comfortable enough after a few workouts that you may not want to use the belt because it will give some people a sense of an easier workout.  I find when doing long runs or intervals the belt is most helpfull. Distances?  Do the same workouts which you had planned outside in the water for the same time frame.  You be the judge as to the perceived effort.  Some people have come out of the water and had their best performances after weeks in the water and zero running outside.  The most dificult workout to replace is the Long Slow Run, but it can be done you just have to let your mind wonder find things to think about.  Stop half way through do some stretching, get a drink of water and then carry on. Speed or lack there of?  One common reason people move slowly is they don’t point their toes before they kick their legs back.  Again think of the hoofed animal pawing at the ground, and point the toes. One last last note to keep in mind when water running is stretch more prior to running in the water than you would if you were to go for a run outside.  Because swimming pools are frequently cold at first entering the first reaction for your muscles is to tighten up therefore stretch a little more than usual.  I suggest stretching in the shower before heading out to the pool deck. Hopefully the information listed above will help you get over your injury and your fitness level will not be sacrificed because of lost running milage outside.  Take care and happy water running. Gord Hobbins Wk Ph. 403 270-8606 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have had some little injuries that I have been having some trouble getting completely cleared up and I managed to get them worse by doing a 10 miler on Sunday. My doctor has suggested a partial rest for 3 weeks consisting of not running more than 8 mpw and supplementing this with water running. So, it’s time to get acquainted with water running. I have been told than many runners have used this to good advantage to recover from injuries and yet still stay running, so to speak. The idea seems to be that you get a thing called a wet vest, which helps you to stay a float vertical with your head above the water. You wear this and go in deep water, and move your legs and arms like you would if you were running. You don’t get anywhere, and you look pretty silly, but you have to put up with that. I tried this this morning, but without the wet vest, since I haven’t managed to buy one yet. It seems to be sort of do-able without the vest, but it looks even sillier, because you constantly look like you are about to drown. I found it quite hard to get into the flow and make it feel like running. I suspect this will be somewhat better when I get the vest, but even so it seems hard to do a running motion when you are not getting anywhere. Does anyone have any tricks for this? Another problem is that there is no way to know how far you have run. The way to solve this is just to go by time, but then I want to make sure that I ran as fast as I normally do, and what does that mean? Well, I used the HR monitor and tried to maintain a similar HR to what I would on a similar run, but I couldn’t do it. I found it very difficult to get my heart rate very high in the water. I know this happens with swimming, but I thought maybe that had to do with the fact that swimming is mainly upper body, but perhaps it has more to do with weighlessness. This too might be different when I get the wet vest, because maybe it too had something to do with not really being able to get into the flow. But perhaps I should adjust my target HR a bit for being in the water. If so, are there any suggestions as to how much I should adjust it? In general, has anyone written anything about training technique for running in the water? I’m sure there are a lot of other questions I could ask about this, but I can’t immediately think of them. In general any suggestions anyone has for making this as much as possible like running would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Hi Shelley, Personally the Aqua jogger has been around the longest and then others have since come out after them.  I’d suggest if you can try them on first and settle for the one which fits you the best.  In any case regardless which belt you choose remember to wear the belt quite tightly and partly on the hips (like males wear pants) not above the hips (like the females wear pants). Gord Hobbins Wk Ph. 403 270-8606 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have discovered there is more than one flotation device for this. As well  as the Wet Vest, there is also the Aquajogger, which is quite a bit cheaper and seems to be easier to get.  Instead of a vest it is more like a belt with a float attached. Do you think it is just as good as the Wet Vest?

Response:

I haven’t used the Wet Vest, but I have used the AquaJogger and was very pleased.  I was having some leg trouble training for a marathon a couple of years ago and had to take three weeks off the road.  I borrowed an AquaJogger and ran in deep water for three weeks, putting in the same minutes per workout that I would usually do on the road.  When I hit the road again three weeks later, I actually felt I had improved my conditioning. I bought an AquaJogger later that week and have used it whenever I’m hit by some nagging injury. The only problem was the odd looks I get from others in the pool.  Funny thing, though.  I loaned my AquaJogger to a retiree who worked out in the pool each morning so he could try it out.  Now we’ve got some non-runners using them just to get a good, non-impact workout.

Response:

Where do people do water running? Their own pools? Gyms?

Response:

Hi Shelley-the-water-runner, Yeah, good for you.  Water running is great Contrary to what anothers advice, don’t cup your hands to make yourself go forward quicker, the opposite, its not the distance but the quality.  The other advice from that person seemed spot on.  Some folks really have given good advice here. Basically i used to go for as lomng as I could until i was totally shagged and its great because there is no impact and youi feel so fantastic afterwards. Also, I used to borrow a jacket but then lost access to it and started without which is greater effort and so better.   Also the jacket just added to the oddity treatment from the other pool users and you look weird enough as it is without adding to it by some fluorescent jacket, they might drown laughing. Also, some pools can get a bit snotty abpout your wearing the thing in their pool anyway so beware, ask before you go and buy one, if you buy one at all. One of the best bits has to be after you’ve been bobbing up and down like tormented flotsam the length of the pool for an hour, sweating and puffing and pushing your little heart out and everyone who has got over their giggling has started to feel sorry for the poor bloke who obviously has major problems with his body at which point you haul your athletic limbs out the pool and stride off to the changing rooms with everyone looking somehow cheated since they’ve lavished their pity on you,   Haaaa Enjoy the running Cheers — matthew oglethorpe

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I have had some little injuries… water running. … … any suggestions anyone has for making this as much as possible like running would be greatly appreciated.

I’ve been water running with a group for that last 7 years.So I guess I’m one of the old timers in this. Here are some random thoughts: For economic reasons, the Aquajogger is superior to the Wet Vest. The Wet Vest costs about 3 times as much and tends to disintegrate along the side seams. With daily use, even if rinsed after each use, they die in under a year. I prefer to wear my Aquajogger quite loose so that it doesn’t restrict my breathing. It floats up until the belt catches on my rib cage and stays there. Both Aquajoggers and Wet Vests rub and chafe. We always wear T-Shirts for protection. The Wet Vests are especially bad since you can get exposed hooks from the Velcro on the beavertail. A pair of triathlon shorts help. I have access to a high school pool. We do laps around a square 40 ft on a side in the deep end. We also do interval and fartlek type workouts – 2,3 or 4 sides of the square at a hard effort with one or two sides easy. Work based on perceived effort. How much energy are you putting out compared to the running workout you are trying to duplicate? i.e. Can I sustaing this enery out put for the same amount of time that it takes me to run x miles. I find that I never end up breathing as hard as I would while running so that isn’t a very good yardstick for me to use. You can cheat like crazy by drafting on the person in front of you. This is not necessarily a bad thing. It means that less proficient runners can keep up and makes conversation easier. The first few hard workouts you won’t realize how much you’ve done until you get out of the pool and your legs have to support your body weight again. Then you’ll know. Beginners seem to have the following problems with their form so here are some hints: Don’t leaning too far forward. You get into a swimming position and end up doing the breast stroke. Try to stay vertical. Think about where your hips are in relation to your shoulders. Pull your arms through in a running position. Again, you aren’t doing the breast stroke. Think about your form.  Beginners tend to do either a bicyling motion or a stairstepper motion, end up pushing water down with the bottom of their feet and go nowhere. Are you running or doing something else. You should be able to feel the backs of your calves push through the water. Have I rambled long enough? I guess so. — Ken Fruit Northwestern University, Evanston, IL.   USA

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Hiya,  I tried water running about 5 years ago when no-one knew alot about it. I was at the time injured with shin- splints and this was an alternative my coach and I tried. Basically we used swimming floats the kind you tie around yourself, mainly because the aqua jogger and other aids were’nt on the market. Even so we got some good results. The sessions consisted mainly of a 15 min warm up followed by a 45 min workout and ending with a 10 min warm down. Because I was sprinting at the time we concentrated on power and leg extension. The power sessions consisted of getting from one side to the other as quickly as possible using a full driving arm movement and with the knees lifting up and driving down and backwards, IE there was no leg extension. For suppleness we used less power and speed and concentrated on range of movement, with the legs going through a full running cycle. Later on we tried mixing the two with limited success. However it did keep me fit and it was easier getting back into running after the injury. I would recommend investing in some sort of water vest or aqua jogger if your going to do this alot.Also try reading up on it, there should be some material available now. Let me know how you get on. Chris.

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Yeah, I had to do it once in a while while I had a stress fracture, and it did nothing for me.  Waste of time!

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I have actually had some experience with water running and found it very helpful.  I was also doing a set workout which did not involve running directly in the water, but a variety of exercises.  At first, I admit that I just laughed at the whole idea, but I found that I was stronger, in other areas of my body, and that I actually didn’t lose much in terms of speed, strength or endurance on the track.  In the end it was actually a very useful tool for my running.  After awhile, I started to cross-train more, and found that I was getting stronger and faster — something that any runner would like to see. Therefore, I think that water running is a very useful aid when one is injured.  Essentially, I didn’t use a jacket and I would just hop in the deep end and stay in one place while doing the running part of my water exercises. If you require further information, please post or write back, I have a lot of experience with running and injuries. Stace

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I coach college cross country and have used aqua jogging.  It does have its benefits if you do it correctly.  I’ve found that hard intervals really help to keep runners lungs in shape without putting alot of stress on the legs.  This is great for an injured athlete.  I haven’t noticed much leg strength development from aqua jogging. Here’s a workout (with or without vest) that I have found to give my athletes a tough workout without ever leaving the pool … 10 min warmup jog 10 x :30 hard with :15 rec 10 x :45 hard with :20 to :25 rec 10 x 1:00 hard with :30 rec 10 min endurance jog 10 min warm down depending upon the athlete, you may need to adjust the levels

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I coach college cross country and have used aqua jogging.  It does have its benefits if you do it correctly.  I’ve found that hard intervals really help to keep runners lungs in shape without putting alot of stress on the legs.  This is great for an injured athlete.  I haven’t noticed much leg strength development from aqua jogging.

[workout deleted] I’d like to try this. What equipment do I need, besides a pool? Will a life-vest do, or is there a special kind of vest? Brian Brian Baquiran

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h Organization: None X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 Lines:  29 I coach college cross country and have used aqua jogging.  It does have its benefits if you do it correctly.  I’ve found that hard intervals really help to keep runners lungs in shape without putting alot of stress on the legs.  This is great for an injured athlete.  I haven’t noticed much leg strength development from aqua jogging. [workout deleted] I’d like to try this. What equipment do I need, besides a pool? Will a life-vest do, or is there a special kind of vest?

I do it without a vest and it works fine. Brian Brian Baquiran

– matthew oglethorpe

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Question:

        Hi, I am just getting started in triathlons, and I am wondering if anybody has a listing of races around Minnesota and western Wisconsin? Thanks Brian Walsh http://www.stolaf.edu/people/walsh/

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        Hi, I am just getting started in triathlons, and I am wondering if anybody has a listing of races around Minnesota and western Wisconsin? Thanks Brian Walsh http://www.stolaf.edu/people/walsh/

Try picking up a copy of Inside Triathlon.  They have a pretty decent schedule by region. -Jacob

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:         Hi, I am just getting started in triathlons, and I am : wondering if anybody has a listing of races around Minnesota and : western Wisconsin? Thanks : : Brian Walsh : http://www.stolaf.edu/people/walsh/ The full schedule for the region was published in the April issue of Minnesota Sports.  Try giving Skyway Publications a call at 612/375-9045.  They may be willing to fax or mail you a copy.  If they won’t, e mail me. Dave LaPorte U. of Minn.

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Question:

  Hi.  If you have any old training wheels (700C clincher, preferably thread on freewheel rear hub) I’d like to buy them.  They don’t need to be light or in perfect condition, just dependable training wheels. I’m looking to spend  80-100 dollars (still in college).  Please reply to                                                     PSU Triathlon Club

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  Hi.  If you have any old training wheels (700C clincher, preferably thread on freewheel rear hub) I’d like to buy them.  They don’t need to be light or in perfect condition, just dependable training wheels. I’m looking to spend  75-90 dollars (still in college).  Please reply to Neal Henderson   PSU Triathlon Club

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