Question:

Thanks for the info – I guess I’ll have to go back on the market for a sports doc. Sigh… Dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Muscle "cramp" and "slight tear" may be a continuum of the same problem or injury depending on who you talk to. Muscle cramping may have a lot of different causes, and that may explain why there aren’t a lot of good preventative measures out there. A treatment that works for one may not work for another, etc. The question to have answered is whether or not you had a simple muscle cramp or spasm, or something more serious such as a muscle tear, or other possibility, a partial achilles tendon rupture. Muscle cramping is thought to be either a protective mechanism to prevent injury to a fatigued and weakening muscle (which may explain why we see a lot of them in the football preseason, or with swimming, etc). Dehydration and possibly low blood sodium (hyponatremia) may also cause muscle cramping. If you’re still feeling weak in that leg two weeks after your race, I’d be a little suspicious and have it checked out by either an orthopedist or a good primary care sports medicine physician. Newsgroups: rec.running,rec.sport.triathlon I’m not sure – how do I tell the difference?  I guess I should probably look for a good sports physician to ask. Thanks, Dan Was it a cramp or a "slight" muscle tear.  I had a similar thing happen in a 10K that I hadn’t warmed up for properly.  I initially thought it was a cramp, but i am now almost 100% certain it was a tear.  It led to a host of other problems over the summer, from which I am only now recovered. About 2 weeks ago I was running the Chicago marathon when I experienced a cramp in my left calf muscle.  I still had about 12 miles to go so I stopped to stretch and then hobbled on to the end.  The cramp came back periodically and really slowed my pace over the second half.  Now, I feel basically 100% recovered but when I run I still feel like I don’t have any power in that left calf muscle. So I have a few questions:  What caused this cramp?  What did I do to my calf muscle that has left it feeling so weak?  And what can I do to fix it? In regards to the cramp, I don’t believe it could have been dehydration related because I have run that distance (~14 miles) that fast (7:15 pace) in much hotter conditions without cramping (the Chicago Distance Classic).  But I could be wrong. Advice would be appreciated (especially if it involves going for massage therapy!). Dan — Regards, Dave

Response:

I’m not sure – how do I tell the difference?  I guess I should probably look for a good sports physician to ask. Thanks, Dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Was it a cramp or a "slight" muscle tear.  I had a similar thing happen in a 10K that I hadn’t warmed up for properly.  I initially thought it was a cramp, but i am now almost 100% certain it was a tear.  It led to a host of other problems over the summer, from which I am only now recovered. About 2 weeks ago I was running the Chicago marathon when I experienced a cramp in my left calf muscle.  I still had about 12 miles to go so I stopped to stretch and then hobbled on to the end.  The cramp came back periodically and really slowed my pace over the second half.  Now, I feel basically 100% recovered but when I run I still feel like I don’t have any power in that left calf muscle. So I have a few questions:  What caused this cramp?  What did I do to my calf muscle that has left it feeling so weak?  And what can I do to fix it? In regards to the cramp, I don’t believe it could have been dehydration related because I have run that distance (~14 miles) that fast (7:15 pace) in much hotter conditions without cramping (the Chicago Distance Classic).  But I could be wrong. Advice would be appreciated (especially if it involves going for massage therapy!). Dan — Regards, Dave

Response:

Muscle "cramp" and "slight tear" may be a continuum of the same problem or injury depending on who you talk to. Muscle cramping may have a lot of different causes, and that may explain why there aren’t a lot of good preventative measures out there. A treatment that works for one may not work for another, etc. The question to have answered is whether or not you had a simple muscle cramp or spasm, or something more serious such as a muscle tear, or other possibility, a partial achilles tendon rupture. Muscle cramping is thought to be either a protective mechanism to prevent injury to a fatigued and weakening muscle (which may explain why we see a lot of them in the football preseason, or with swimming, etc). Dehydration and possibly low blood sodium (hyponatremia) may also cause muscle cramping. If you’re still feeling weak in that leg two weeks after your race, I’d be a little suspicious and have it checked out by either an orthopedist or a good primary care sports medicine physician. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.running,rec.sport.triathlon I’m not sure – how do I tell the difference?  I guess I should probably look for a good sports physician to ask. Thanks, Dan Was it a cramp or a "slight" muscle tear.  I had a similar thing happen in a 10K that I hadn’t warmed up for properly.  I initially thought it was a cramp, but i am now almost 100% certain it was a tear.  It led to a host of other problems over the summer, from which I am only now recovered. About 2 weeks ago I was running the Chicago marathon when I experienced a cramp in my left calf muscle.  I still had about 12 miles to go so I stopped to stretch and then hobbled on to the end.  The cramp came back periodically and really slowed my pace over the second half.  Now, I feel basically 100% recovered but when I run I still feel like I don’t have any power in that left calf muscle. So I have a few questions:  What caused this cramp?  What did I do to my calf muscle that has left it feeling so weak?  And what can I do to fix it? In regards to the cramp, I don’t believe it could have been dehydration related because I have run that distance (~14 miles) that fast (7:15 pace) in much hotter conditions without cramping (the Chicago Distance Classic).  But I could be wrong. Advice would be appreciated (especially if it involves going for massage therapy!). Dan — Regards, Dave

Response:

With a cramp, the pain should not last more than an hour or so (?).  A torn muscle will hurt for a lot longer.  Also if it is badly torn, you will see bruising below the site of the tear. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not sure – how do I tell the difference?  I guess I should probably look for a good sports physician to ask. Thanks, Dan Was it a cramp or a "slight" muscle tear.  I had a similar thing happen in a 10K that I hadn’t warmed up for properly.  I initially thought it was a cramp, but i am now almost 100% certain it was a tear.  It led to a host of other problems over the summer, from which I am only now recovered. About 2 weeks ago I was running the Chicago marathon when I experienced a cramp in my left calf muscle.  I still had about 12 miles to go so I stopped to stretch and then hobbled on to the end.  The cramp came back periodically and really slowed my pace over the second half.  Now, I feel basically 100% recovered but when I run I still feel like I don’t have any power in that left calf muscle. So I have a few questions:  What caused this cramp?  What did I do to my calf muscle that has left it feeling so weak?  And what can I do to fix it? In regards to the cramp, I don’t believe it could have been dehydration related because I have run that distance (~14 miles) that fast (7:15 pace) in much hotter conditions without cramping (the Chicago Distance Classic).  But I could be wrong. Advice would be appreciated (especially if it involves going for massage therapy!). Dan — Regards, Dave

– Regards, Dave

Response:

Was it a cramp or a "slight" muscle tear.  I had a similar thing happen in a 10K that I hadn’t warmed up for properly.  I initially thought it was a cramp, but i am now almost 100% certain it was a tear.  It led to a host of other problems over the summer, from which I am only now recovered. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About 2 weeks ago I was running the Chicago marathon when I experienced a cramp in my left calf muscle.  I still had about 12 miles to go so I stopped to stretch and then hobbled on to the end.  The cramp came back periodically and really slowed my pace over the second half.  Now, I feel basically 100% recovered but when I run I still feel like I don’t have any power in that left calf muscle. So I have a few questions:  What caused this cramp?  What did I do to my calf muscle that has left it feeling so weak?  And what can I do to fix it? In regards to the cramp, I don’t believe it could have been dehydration related because I have run that distance (~14 miles) that fast (7:15 pace) in much hotter conditions without cramping (the Chicago Distance Classic).  But I could be wrong. Advice would be appreciated (especially if it involves going for massage therapy!). Dan

– Regards, Dave

Response:

About 2 weeks ago I was running the Chicago marathon when I experienced a cramp in my left calf muscle.  I still had about 12 miles to go so I stopped to stretch and then hobbled on to the end.  The cramp came back periodically and really slowed my pace over the second half.  Now, I feel basically 100% recovered but when I run I still feel like I don’t have any power in that left calf muscle. So I have a few questions:  What caused this cramp?  What did I do to my calf muscle that has left it feeling so weak?  And what can I do to fix it? In regards to the cramp, I don’t believe it could have been dehydration related because I have run that distance (~14 miles) that fast (7:15 pace) in much hotter conditions without cramping (the Chicago Distance Classic).  But I could be wrong. Advice would be appreciated (especially if it involves going for massage therapy!). Dan

Response:

Question:

Outside assistance is usually addressed in race information.   Generally states that a participant can not receive anything from anyone except race officials.   Some races even go on to specify that they will not consider being hosed with water by bystanders as outside assistance as the only exception.  Glass containers are specifically banned.  I asked at IMH one year if I could get a milkshake at the ice cream stand adjacent to the bike turn around in Hawi.  I was told it would be considered outside assistance and I would be DQ’d if seen.  Of course, I could have purchased it the day prior and put it in my special needs bag. Going into a restaurant would be leaving the course.   Rule 6.1 specifically states that "runners shall follow and remain on the prescribed course".

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looks to me like the restaurant stop would DQ you.  It would be outside assistance and leaving the course violations. Nothing against having a beer if you take it with you or it is provided by aid stations and officials. ?  How about a mid race doobie?  I’m sure your mistaken, remember Chucky V? Depends on what the beer is IN.

Response:

Outside assistance is usually addressed in race information.   Generally states that a participant can not receive anything from anyone except race officials.   Some races even go on to specify that they will not consider being hosed with water by bystanders as outside assistance as the only exception.  Glass containers are specifically banned.  I asked at IMH one year if I could get a milkshake at the ice cream stand adjacent to the bike turn around in Hawi.  I was told it would be considered outside assistance and I would be DQ’d if seen.  Of course, I could have purchased it the day prior and put it in my special needs bag. Going into a restaurant would be leaving the course.   Rule 6.1 specifically states that "runners shall follow and remain on the prescribed course".

I was just addressing the Chuckie V question – I believe that the consumption of beer was not the *named* issue, but rather the fact that it was from a glass bottle. However, now that you bring it up, the restaurant question raises some interesting thoughts.  How does one define outside assistance?  A tailwind isn’t outside assistance, so is it a question of human action?  Ah, but then what of a hose aimed across the course, or, for that matter the numerous infrastructure elements, like pavement, that make the course passable (there ARE cross country tris with mountain bikes, you know.)  It has always been my understanding that the intent was to deny one competitor any assistance not equally available to all competitors.  The ice cream stand is a public accommodation, available to anyone with cash, right?  I’m not saying the way the rule is enforced is wrong, or knocking it, just inviting speculation as to what the spirit of the law is, and how effectively the letter of the law promotes that spirit.

Response:

I was just addressing the Chuckie V question – I believe that the consumption of beer was not the *named* issue, but rather the fact that it was from a glass bottle.

Yep, there are actually two issues here if you want to be technical.  1 is the glass container the other is receiving aid from a non-official. However, now that you bring it up, the restaurant question raises some interesting thoughts.  How does one define outside assistance?  A tailwind isn’t outside assistance, so is it a question of human action?

A tailwind is an "Act of God" and allowed if you should be so blessed. I mentioned that in some races I have been to it was specifically mentioned that the only outside assistance that would be tolerated was "Getting Hosed".  Ah, but then what of a hose aimed across the course, or, for that matter the numerous infrastructure elements, like pavement, that make the course passable (there ARE cross country tris with mountain bikes, you know.)  It has always been my understanding that the intent was to deny one competitor any assistance not equally available to all competitors.

Nothing wrong with lots of amenities of infrastructure so long as they are identified as "The Race Course". If some RD choses to have the course pass through a restraunt and make the waiters officials then there is no problem or violation.  The ice cream stand is a public accommodation, available to anyone with cash, right?

Wrong,  it is not available to participating contestants.  It may be near the course but not part of it.   Being present there would mean that the contestant left the official course and is subject to penalty if sited by a Marshal, other official or protested.  I’m not saying the way the rule is enforced is wrong, or knocking it, just inviting speculation as to what the spirit of the law is, and how effectively the letter of the law promotes that spirit.

I believe in running a tight ship, enforcing the little laws will enhance the significance of the important ones.  Never give a freaking drafter an inch of tolerance.  If I ever lose, I want that loss to be because I screwed up, didn’t train enough or just had a bad day, not because someone got some superfood or outside assistance.  Of course, in reality, there have been a few times when I wish my competition would have stopped for a meal.

Response:

Looks to me like the restaurant stop would DQ you.  It would be outside assistance and leaving the course violations. Nothing against having a beer if you take it with you or it is provided by aid stations and officials.  If you get it from any one else it is outside assistance and DQ.

I think Chuckie V would beg to differ with you on the beer being alright during a race! B.Oliver

Response:

Being present there would mean that the contestant left the official course and is subject to penalty if sited by a Marshal, other official or protested.

Ken, I’m not sure of your interpretation here. If a contestant took a wrong turn on the bike course, realized it, and back-tracked to the exact same spot and resumed, they should not be subject to a penalty, should they? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Operating Traffic Lights Crossbucks HO and N Scale http://www.catalog.com/webrun/ipe

Response:

I believe in running a tight ship, enforcing the little laws will enhance the significance of the important ones.  Never give a freaking drafter an inch of tolerance.

I agree. If I ever lose, I want that loss to be because I screwed up, didn’t train enough or just had a bad day, not because someone got some superfood or outside assistance.  

That’s the whole question.  Did they get unfair assistance, if it was equally available to you and you *chose* to forgo it?  As a hypothetical, at the special needs station, what if the RD set up a special needs concession – each racer could choose what mix of personally packed items and/or cash to put in his special needs bag – how would that be any different from an outside vendor offering the same opportunity, in terms of competitive fairness?

Response:

That’s the whole question.  Did they get unfair assistance, if it was equally available to you and you *chose* to forgo it?  As a hypothetical, at the special needs station, what if the RD set up a special needs concession – each racer could choose what mix of personally packed items and/or cash to put in his special needs bag – how would that be any different from an outside vendor offering the same opportunity, in terms of competitive fairness?

Once the race starts, the outside world is off limits to competitors. Everything is supposed to come from race officials or your personal stash. The special needs stuff is still under the control of the race folks. The line has to be drawn somewhere.  It’s easier to enforce if you say "No Outside Assistance" rather than respond to a lot of uncontrollable situations. Larry.

Response:

Once the race starts, the outside world is off limits to competitors. Everything is supposed to come from race officials or your personal stash. The special needs stuff is still under the control of the race folks.

So, eating roadkill is verboten, then?

Response:

Brian Wagner wrote So, eating roadkill is verboten, then?

The trick is to pedal, and be able to scrape flat rodent corpses simultaneously.  Power bars are best for this, Ive found.  Banana.  Make sure you are not being tailed by a marshal.

Response:

There’s a restaurant along the run course of a triathlon. 1)  An athlete leaves the run course and stops in the restaurant, pays for a burger and a coke, consumes them and reenters the course at the same point she left it and completes the run.  Legal? 2)  Same scenario, but instead of a burger and a coke, she has a burger and a beer.  Legal? 3)  Same scenario, but she just has the beer.  Legal? I own a full (wet) suit. 4)  I cut the arms off, effectively turning it into a "long john."  Legal? 5)  I cut the legs off, turning it into a "shortie."  Legal? 6)  I wear just the cut off leg pieces.  Legal?  I buy one of the new DeSoto two piece suits. 7)  I wear only the bottoms.  Legal? Thanks! John John Faith Alexandria, Virginia, USA "There’s nothing I need from anyone except for love and respect, and anyone who can’t give me those two things has no place in my life." – Arnold Beckoff "Hell, kid – I’m too old to grow up!"  -  Huey Walker "Someday we’re going to look back and laugh at this – so why not now?"  - Karen Smyers

Response:

I do not know the answers to your questions. I do know that Tri-Fed has not been the name of the national governing body of the sport for triathlon for about 5-6 years.  It is now called USA Triathlon.  I’m sure that you can get the answers to your questions by going to www.usatriathlon.org.   Tom Ziebart – Sport Development – USA Triathlon National Training Center

Response:

Looks to me like the restaurant stop would DQ you.  It would be outside assistance and leaving the course violations. Nothing against having a beer if you take it with you or it is provided by aid stations and officials.  If you get it from any one else it is outside assistance and DQ. The wet suit stuff would all be fine in a race where wet suits were authorized.   You could not wear any part of a wetsuit or buoyant material in a race where wet suits were not authorized.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There’s a restaurant along the run course of a triathlon. 1)  An athlete leaves the run course and stops in the restaurant, pays for a burger and a coke, consumes them and reenters the course at the same point she left it and completes the run.  Legal? 2)  Same scenario, but instead of a burger and a coke, she has a burger and a beer.  Legal? 3)  Same scenario, but she just has the beer.  Legal? I own a full (wet) suit. 4)  I cut the arms off, effectively turning it into a "long john."  Legal? 5)  I cut the legs off, turning it into a "shortie."  Legal? 6)  I wear just the cut off leg pieces.  Legal?  I buy one of the new DeSoto two piece suits. 7)  I wear only the bottoms.  Legal? Thanks! John John Faith Alexandria, Virginia, USA "There’s nothing I need from anyone except for love and respect, and anyone who can’t give me those two things has no place in my life." – Arnold Beckoff "Hell, kid – I’m too old to grow up!"  -  Huey Walker "Someday we’re going to look back and laugh at this – so why not now?"  - Karen Smyers

Response:

Looks to me like the restaurant stop would DQ you.  It would be outside assistance and leaving the course violations. Nothing against having a beer if you take it with you or it is provided by aid stations and officials.

?  How about a mid race doobie?  I’m sure your mistaken, remember Chucky V? Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

Looks to me like the restaurant stop would DQ you.  It would be outside assistance and leaving the course violations. Nothing against having a beer if you take it with you or it is provided by aid stations and officials. ?  How about a mid race doobie?  I’m sure your mistaken, remember Chucky V?

Depends on what the beer is IN.

Response:

There’s a restaurant along the run course of a triathlon. 1)  An athlete leaves the run course and stops in the restaurant, pays for a burger and a coke, consumes them and reenters the course at the same point she left it and completes the run.  Legal?

No 2)  Same scenario, but instead of a burger and a coke, she has a burger and a beer.  Legal?

No 3)  Same scenario, but she just has the beer.  Legal?

No I own a full (wet) suit. 4)  I cut the arms off, effectively turning it into a "long john."  Legal?

Yes if wet suits are permitted during that race 5)  I cut the legs off, turning it into a "shortie."  Legal?

same as 4 6)  I wear just the cut off leg pieces.  Legal? same as 4  I buy one of the new DeSoto two piece suits. 7)  I wear only the bottoms.  Legal?

same as 4 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks! John John Faith Alexandria, Virginia, USA "There’s nothing I need from anyone except for love and respect, and anyone who can’t give me those two things has no place in my life." – Arnold Beckoff "Hell, kid – I’m too old to grow up!"  -  Huey Walker "Someday we’re going to look back and laugh at this – so why not now?"  - Karen Smyers

– Ken Burres MD http://www.fitcentric.com http://www.microlaserdiscectomy.com FitCentric produces THE athletic software solution for fitness machines, the Web, and virtual training!

  kpb.vcf

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Response:

Question:

First, prior to the scheduled start, a storm warning cuased an approximate 45 minute delay. They then lined us up again, only to announce lightning strikes in a 5 to 8 mile radius. Being a race director has got to be tough – hindsight is always 20/20. Had the race started at the scheduled time, there would have been some rain. As it turned out, the roads were slick,  as well as under construction in some areas, so I bailed.I did the LaPorte Indiana tri the following Saturday. Weather was vastly improved, although there were e.coli warnings stapled to the beach pavillion and lifeguard towers. Yum. no ill effects, though. It’s a nice race. stay Cool, Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It looks like they ended up changing this years race to a Bi format – what happened = anyone know? Just curious Derik Attempting to keep the knee cartilage intact!

Response:

Sorry I meant this was about Lake Zurich not Lake Geneva – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you talking about the LakeGeneva, Illinois race?  There are really no hills and that 10k is the fastest almost anyone races…. Maybe you are refering to IM Switz…? Lake geneva is a very loosly run event, but the bike course is nice and rolling, so you will get to test out the new steed!  Be cautious not to go too hard on the bike, as the run is a real *(#&^$.  Let as many folks pass you in the last few miles as want to, while you stretch out and relax those quads.  Take the first big hill easy and do not be ashamed of walking up parts of the hill and the rest will go just fine. Keep a couse map with you for the bike– you might need it if last year is not improved upon. Before you buy. Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Are you talking about the LakeGeneva, Illinois race?  There are really no hills and that 10k is the fastest almost anyone races…. Maybe you are refering to IM Switz…? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lake geneva is a very loosly run event, but the bike course is nice and rolling, so you will get to test out the new steed!  Be cautious not to go too hard on the bike, as the run is a real *(#&^$.  Let as many folks pass you in the last few miles as want to, while you stretch out and relax those quads.  Take the first big hill easy and do not be ashamed of walking up parts of the hill and the rest will go just fine. Keep a couse map with you for the bike– you might need it if last year is not improved upon. Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Thanks for the advice.  I’ve heard a bunch of horror stories about the hills on the run at Lake Geneva.  It’ll be interesting to see if they live up to their billing. All I’m hoping for is (1) good weathers and (2) to finish.  Everything else will be gravy. When I received my confirmation letter I noticed that it indicated "Wetsuits recommended".  I’m not planning on wearing (or buying) one. Are they really that important for this race? Thanks! Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lake geneva is a very loosly run event, but the bike course is nice and rolling, so you will get to test out the new steed!  Be cautious not to go too hard on the bike, as the run is a real *(#&^$.  Let as many folks pass you in the last few miles as want to, while you stretch out and relax those quads.  Take the first big hill easy and do not be ashamed of walking up parts of the hill and the rest will go just fine. Keep a couse map with you for the bike– you might need it if last year is not improved upon. Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

The hills are alive…, and regarding the wetsuit– borrow one.  The water temp is low 70’s, and from my standpoint, the added warmth is an energy saver.  Why not borrow one? Good luck, save some for the run (seriously!) PB Before you buy.

Response:

You’re making the assumption that I *know* someone who owns a wetsuit. As for the hills, I’m going to love every minute of them (at least that’s what I’m going to keep telling myself ). Mike The hills are alive…, and regarding the wetsuit– borrow one.  The water temp is low 70’s, and from my standpoint, the added warmth is an energy saver.  Why not borrow one? Good luck, save some for the run (seriously!) PB Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Mike– they told me it would be 45 minutes, so I carbed up and re- hydrated– then the race started about 45 seconds later.  OOOPS!  As a newbie, it was a blast racing in the rain (extra fear of falling!), and it dried out within 15 minutes.  My family stuck it out (God Bless Them) and got to see Dad at the transition, and made it to the finish line in time to see me get my first age-group award– as a BIATHLETE!!! It was very stressful, and I wanted to give it up several times, but obviously I am glad I did not, as I needed the experience.  I sure do not blame anyone who left.  $55 seemed like a lot to pay for a t-shirt though. I sure hope we get to swim next year! Before you buy.

Response:

Lake Zurich would’ve been my second triathlon so I really could’ve used the experience, and I hate the feeling that I "wasted" 55 bucks on a t- shirt but I guess you live and you learn. On the bright side, I’ll be doing the Lake Geneva triathlon on my brand spanking new bike.  Its just a Trek 1000 with areo bars and LOOK clipless pedals but after training and racing on a old rusty Trek 400 it feels like a rocket. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike– they told me it would be 45 minutes, so I carbed up and re- hydrated– then the race started about 45 seconds later.  OOOPS!  As a newbie, it was a blast racing in the rain (extra fear of falling!), and it dried out within 15 minutes.  My family stuck it out (God Bless Them) and got to see Dad at the transition, and made it to the finish line in time to see me get my first age-group award– as a BIATHLETE!!! It was very stressful, and I wanted to give it up several times, but obviously I am glad I did not, as I needed the experience.  I sure do not blame anyone who left.  $55 seemed like a lot to pay for a t-shirt though. I sure hope we get to swim next year! Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Lake geneva is a very loosly run event, but the bike course is nice and rolling, so you will get to test out the new steed!  Be cautious not to go too hard on the bike, as the run is a real *(#&^$.  Let as many folks pass you in the last few miles as want to, while you stretch out and relax those quads.  Take the first big hill easy and do not be ashamed of walking up parts of the hill and the rest will go just fine. Keep a couse map with you for the bike– you might need it if last year is not improved upon. Before you buy.

Response:

I was one of the half that decided to call it a day when the swim got canceled.  It was a shame — I felt really good going into this triathlon.  The reason(s) that I decided to head home were (1) my support staff (i.e. wife) who has been such a good sport was getting wet and already had a cold and (2) when we asked one of the race volunteers when they thought they could get started they indicated 45 minutes.  This was *after* we had gotten over to the transition area. Anyway, I’ll be back next year.  Now its on to training for the Lake Geneva tri.  I haven’t read good things about it here — but I’m obligated because I have relatives in the area and they want to see me race… Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even with the "bi" format, they still put on a great race (although the initially-wet roads made it a bit crazy for those unfamiliar with wet- road biking).  Canceling the point-to-point swim made for kind of a long walk to the bike/run transition, but once started there were volunteers all along the bike & run routes.  The use of timing chips also made for an easy change from three legs to two. This race gets better each year and it’s good to see such effort put into a race in the Chicago area.  With suburban growth encroaching every day, it really takes a lot of effort from the race director and the community to support a triathlon! ch1.aol.com… It looks like they ended up changing this years race to a Bi format – what happened = anyone know? Just curious Derik Attempting to keep the knee cartilage intact!

Before you buy.

Response:

Even with the "bi" format, they still put on a great race (although the initially-wet roads made it a bit crazy for those unfamiliar with wet-road biking).  Canceling the point-to-point swim made for kind of a long walk to the bike/run transition, but once started there were volunteers all along the bike & run routes.  The use of timing chips also made for an easy change from three legs to two. This race gets better each year and it’s good to see such effort put into a race in the Chicago area.  With suburban growth encroaching every day, it really takes a lot of effort from the race director and the community to support a triathlon! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It looks like they ended up changing this years race to a Bi format – what happened = anyone know? Just curious Derik Attempting to keep the knee cartilage intact!

Response:

It looks like they ended up changing this years race to a Bi format – what happened = anyone know?   Just curious Derik Attempting to keep the knee cartilage intact!

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Lightening in the area caused a 1.5 hour delay and the cancellation of the swim… Kurt It looks like they ended up changing this years race to a Bi format – what happened = anyone know? Just curious Derik Attempting to keep the knee cartilage intact!

– Kurt Estes http://kestes.homepage.com/Triathlon/tri_links.htm Before you buy.

Response:

It was raining with lightning within an 8 mile area.  About 1/2 the people bailed on the duathlon.  Too bad because the weather cleared up about half way thru the race… It looks like they ended up changing this years race to a Bi format – what happened = anyone know? Just curious Derik Attempting to keep the knee cartilage intact!

Before you buy.

Response:

what is a bi format derik? as much as i know (living in zuerich) there is no race called lake zuerich triathlon. there is however a triathlon event in the first week of august every year (sprint to olympic distances on saturday, IM on sunday), but this is called the "Zueri"-Triathlon or "IM Switzerland" respectively. – simon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It looks like they ended up changing this years race to a Bi format – what happened = anyone know?

Response:

He is refering to a race in Lake Zurich, Illinois, USA.  It is an international distance triathlon that takes place in mid august. what is a bi format derik? as much as i know (living in zuerich) there is no race called lake

zuerich triathlon. there is however a triathlon event in the first week of august every year

(sprint to olympic distances on saturday, IM on sunday), but this is called the "Zueri"-Triathlon

or "IM Switzerland" respectively. – simon It looks like they ended up changing this years race to a Bi format – what happened = anyone know?

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

does any body have a few tips that i could have on triathlon training programs. eg amount of swim ,running, cycling per week       thank you                     john thomas

Response:

does any body have a few tips that i could have on triathlon training programs. eg amount of swim ,running, cycling per week      thank you                    john thomas

Triathlete magazine has 3 different 12 week training programs on their site that are fairly decent. www.triathletemag.com John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"

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Try the links or online-tools here www.science-sportsware.dk Martin Egeskov Pedersen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – does any body have a few tips that i could have on triathlon training programs. eg amount of swim ,running, cycling per week       thank you                   john thomas

Response:

Call or email Multisport Training Company, they have a great coaching staff.

Response:

Two other sources for training programs: www.trinewbies.com and www.220magazine.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – does any body have a few tips that i could have on triathlon training programs. eg amount of swim ,running, cycling per week      thank you                  john thomas

Response:

Hey!  As my grandmother says … "Self praise is no recommendation". But on a more serious note, if you are willing to pay out a bit of money for a training plan, you might also want to check out Troy Jacobson’s site at: http://www.coachtroy.com Cheers. Clive "jukebox" Cartlidge Call or email Multisport Training Company, they have a great coaching staff.

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, the postings indicate that anyone who has a fast 10k can win without being particularly strong in the other two events.  First you have the wetsuits which bring the mediocre swimmers to the front, then you have drafting on a bike Just ask a strong 10K runner to win a draft-legal race, then. Everyone thinks the bike part of a draft-legal is always very easy. Try one and you may change your mind. Olivier

What is your point? I said that drafting and wetsuits allow people who are fast in the 10k and not particularly strong in the other two events to win a race.  Do you see any sub 29min 10k Kenyans out there? No, because you have to be able to swim decently.  So obviously the point is that drafting compensates for a weakness in cycling but not the inability to cycle at all. ST’s comments were an exageration but the point is well taken. Specifically, if you take someone who is great in the water and great on the bike and not so great on a 10k, then that person basically has no chance of winning a drafting race that allows wetsuits in the swim (I’m throwing the wetsuits into the mix because I have a problem with them as well).

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Drafting is too dangerous for the average triathlete.  Trying to maneuver within a group with tired arms after swimming is asking for big trouble. Rick Swanger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The point is, in order to draft, you have to get close enough to begin with. If you are a lousy swimmer there is no way any draft you will get into will allow you to catch the leaders. Granted, I am NOT in favor of drafting in tri’s.  But, somehow, some of the postings here seems to indicate that anyone who knows how to draft can win a triathlon.  That just isn’t the case.  The most that drafting can do is equalize the bike leg (which is why I’m against it) but it cannot make winners out of also rans. I actively road race, and I rely on the competence of my fellow riders for my own safety.  I sure would want to see triathletes become MUCH better at group tactics before allowing drafting in a tri.  Maybe even add a "qualified to draft" box on your USAT card…. better yet, keep drafting out. John

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The point is, in order to draft, you have to get close enough to begin with. If you are a lousy swimmer there is no way any draft you will get into will allow you to catch the leaders. Granted, I am NOT in favor of drafting in tri’s.  But, somehow, some of the postings here seems to indicate that anyone who knows how to draft can win a triathlon.  That just isn’t the case.  The most that drafting can do is equalize the bike leg (which is why I’m against it) but it cannot make winners out of also rans. I actively road race, and I rely on the competence of my fellow riders for my own safety.  I sure would want to see triathletes become MUCH better at group tactics before allowing drafting in a tri.  Maybe even add a "qualified to draft" box on your USAT card…. better yet, keep drafting out. John

Response:

Granted, I am NOT in favor of drafting in tri’s.  But, somehow, some of the postings here seems to indicate that anyone who knows how to draft can win a triathlon.  

No, the postings indicate that anyone who has a fast 10k can win without being particularly strong in the other two events.  First you have the wetsuits which bring the mediocre swimmers to the front, then you have drafting on a bike, then you have the sound of a toilet flushing as a good sport goes down the drain.

Response:

The point is, in order to draft, you have to get close enough to begin with. If you are a lousy swimmer there is no way any draft you will get into will allow you to catch the leaders.

Unless you have a teammate who is a lousy runner who will tow you up to the lead pack. That’s how they do it in road races. Of course, the pack is not going full out, because they are saving something for the attack. But, you introduce the tactical element of drafting, and the resulting interaction will inevitably lead to teaming, whether official or not. Granted, I am NOT in favor of drafting in tri’s.  But, somehow, some of the postings here seems to indicate that anyone who knows how to draft can win a triathlon.  That just isn’t the case.  The most that drafting can do is equalize the bike leg (which is why I’m against it) but it cannot make winners out of also rans.

I agree, it won’t make 27th place into 1st place. But it might make 5th place into 2nd place, and it might make 3rd place into DNF. I actively road race, and I rely on the competence of my fellow riders for my own safety.  I sure would want to see triathletes become MUCH better at group tactics before allowing drafting in a tri.  Maybe even add a "qualified to draft" box on your USAT card…. better yet, keep drafting out.

Yup. Most triathletes have little understanding of group riding. These things take time. But I completely agree that it ought not to be a religious issue. But this is one reason why the ITU is so out of touch with most rank-and-file triathletes. When educated to the issue, most rank-and-file triathletes will think of it in moral terms–whether or not it’s fair. The ITU thinks of it only in business terms. This is the basis for the polemical conflict. Rick "Orthogonal reasoning" Denney

Response:

No, the postings indicate that anyone who has a fast 10k can win without being particularly strong in the other two events.  First you have the wetsuits which bring the mediocre swimmers to the front, then you have drafting on a bike

Just ask a strong 10K runner to win a draft-legal race, then. Everyone thinks the bike part of a draft-legal is always very easy. Try one and you may change your mind. Olivier Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

I’m a newbie to the sport and have my second olympic distance race next weekend. The bike course (an out and back course) looks something like this: – 4 miles fairly hilly. More uphill than down. A couple of the hills will put me in 1st gear (on my oldish Raleigh 12-speed) at fairly low RPMs. – 16 miles mostly flat and fast. – 4 miles fairly hilly. More downhill than up. Only about 1 hill will put me into 1st gear. My goal is to minimize (recognizing I will still face a 10k run) my overall time for the bike event. Here are some specific questions about dealing with hills and with the above course: 1. When approaching a hill, should you try to build up speed beforehand so that you can go up as far as possible before having to down shift? 2. When I get into a 1st gear situation, should I slow down as much as possible so as to not blow out my legs (especially in the context of the above course) or should I try to keep going as hard as I can. I’m worried that being too aggressive in the first 4 miles will ruin my speed for the flat 16. Any thoughts on that particular balance? 3. When beginning a downhill that is going to reach speeds that will preclude pedaling, should you try to get to that max speed as soon as possible at the top even if that means maximal effort? I realize that some of the answers will depend on how I’ve trained. I’ve favored endurance (75-minutes steady load) workouts more so than intervals. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Or if there is a good website link that might cover these issues, please pass it along. – thanks, chuck p.s. In the event you have a used tri-bike you want to get rid of cheap, I live in East Tennessee and will be at the Lock Triathlon in Knoxville next weekend. I don’t know what frame size I need but I’m 6′0" tall.

Response:

1. When approaching a hill, should you try to build up speed beforehand so that you can go up as far as possible before having to down shift?

Building up speed into a hill is a pretty good technique, but the goal should be focused on cadence rate, not how long you need to pedal before downshifting. You want to keep your leg speed up, which means a progressive series of downshifts as you carry into the hill and lose momentum. You don’t want to bog down your legs in a big (hard) gear, and THEN downshift. 2. When I get into a 1st gear situation, should I slow down as much as possible so as to not blow out my legs (especially in the context of the above course) or should I try to keep going as hard as I can. I’m worried that being too aggressive in the first 4 miles will ruin my speed for the flat 16. Any thoughts on that particular balance?

*OPINION* If you are unsure, I suggest going conservative. You don’t want to crawl up the hill, nor sprint. The cadence should dictate what you do – settle to a cadence that is comfortable and maintainable. 3. When beginning a downhill that is going to reach speeds that will preclude pedaling, should you try to get to that max speed as soon as possible at the top even if that means maximal effort?

No. Why use your energy when gravity will do it for you? You can keep pedaling, but with minimal "push" as gravity will really dominate here. -Rolf —     "In rivers, the water that you touch is the last of      which has passed and the first of that which comes:      so with present time."   — Leonardo Da Vinci IMC94-14:07  IMC95-11:59  IMC97-12:12  IMC98-14:02  IMNZ99-11:52

Response:

<SNIP some specific questions about dealing with hills and with the above course: 1. When approaching a hill, should you try to build up speed beforehand so that you can go up as far as possible before having to down shift?

Yes, but also upshift (easier gear) to get a fast spin so your leg momentum and fast cadence will carry you up the hill. 2. When I get into a 1st gear situation, should I slow down as much as possible so as to not blow out my legs (especially in the context of the above course) or should I try to keep going as hard as I can. I’m worried that being too aggressive in the first 4 miles will ruin my speed for the flat 16. Any thoughts on that particular balance?

Go hard (perceive very hard), but not all out.  If you feel like your are going all out, then you’ll most likely have a hard time recovering.  Also, don’t be afraid to take a hill and spin up it at a moderate pace to recover. 3. When beginning a downhill that is going to reach speeds that will preclude pedaling, should you try to get to that max speed as soon as possible at the top even if that means maximal effort?

I wouldn’t in a TT.  You want to keep your effort between hard – very hard. You don’t want to get to max on the bike or the run is going to hurt.  I would get up to max speed fairly early (don’t kill yourself) and then get into a good aero tuck.  At the bottom, start spinning fast (100+ rpm) and spin up the other side. Hope this helps! Pat

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Question:

::"Marty Liquori was a good counter-balance to the nitwit TV personality he : :was paired with: he actually had intelligent and interesting comments :: about the strategy of the leaders, as opposed to the empty cliches his :: partner was offering.  Not as bad as someone saying Fred Lebow was at the :: finish line (did someone on ESPN really say that???), but the Channel 11:: :: guy did make a ditzy cheery comment about marathoning having been :: "friendly to women since the beginning."  I was annoyed enough to want to :: throw something at the TV, and I’m surprised that Kathryn Switzer, who was :: one of the on-course commentators, didn’t pipe up with her own experience :: from the "friendly" world of marathoning. Fred Lebow was at the Finish Line – his statue and his spirit…..everybody who runs and volunteers at the Marathon will always feel his presence there.

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: Here in New York, the local station "Channel 11" : (a "W.B." affiliate) has always covered the race : for as long as I can remember… I saw some of the Channel 11 coverage (on tape after having been out on the course cheering for and running with friends), and it seems to have found that middle ground pretty well between covering the leaders and also some of the human interest from the pack. Marty Liquori was a good counter-balance to the nitwit TV personality he was paired with: he actually had intelligent and interesting comments about the strategy of the leaders, as opposed to the empty cliches his partner was offering.  Not as bad as someone saying Fred Lebow was at the finish line (did someone on ESPN really say that???), but the Channel 11 guy did make a ditzy cheery comment about marathoning having been "friendly to women since the beginning."  I was annoyed enough to want to throw something at the TV, and I’m surprised that Kathryn Switzer, who was one of the on-course commentators, didn’t pipe up with her own experience from the "friendly" world of marathoning. But overall the mix on Channel 11 was a reasonably good balance. *Dana

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I couldn’t believe it when I saw that — what the heck was he thinking?  And I turned and said to my husband — "look at the stupid fat guy!"  LOL Did anyone happen to catch the "official", a fat guy in an orange jacket, almost collide with the front pack about 2 miles from the finish.  He was telling people to get out of the way or something and roamed around the course with his back to the runners.  I would have been very pissed if that was me. The guy still takes second place to a policeman at the finish of one of the legs of the Tour de France a few years back. He leaned out from in front of a fence (where he was supposed to be controlling the crowd) to take a picture of the finishing sprint and took out most of the entire lead pack who were sprinting at 40+ mph. Mike "A dufus’s dufus" Tennent "TriBop" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

        Similar thing in Atlanta in 1995 during the wheelchair race.  A spectator stepped off the curb to take a photo of the wheelchair athletes during a descent.  I guess he forgot to read in his telephoto lens users manual that objects may be closer than they appear—the wheelchair athlete did not see him and ran over him.  Both went flying with both going to the hospital…..This gets a second to the TDF cop (the NYCM guy is third since it did not impact the race significantly).

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Are any of the major networks covering the marathon today?

Here in New York, the local station "Channel 11" (a "W.B." affiliate) has always covered the race for as long as I can remember… I didn’t even know it was ever aired on any other network such as ABC/NBC or ESPN..   I’ve always found the channel 11 coverage to be… well… they probably do a hell of a better job than those nitwits from that pseudo-sports channel ESPN.  After watching the pitiful coverage of the Tour de France on ESPN, my opinion of that garbage network is.. well very mean spirited..   Channel 11 typically has always aired several hours of coverage which starts probably an hour or maybe two hours before the race even begins. Tons of "human interest stories" and since Channel 11 is local they always have focused quite well on the "organizational" aspect of the race; i.e.: plenty of interviews with representatives from the NYRRC.   I figured since channel 11 is now a "network" (Warner Brothers "W.B.") the coverage might have been aired countrywide.

Response:

Goodness, there is no way to please all.  The Olympic coverage by CBS and NBC get blasted when they do human interest pieces.  Ironman coverage

on NBC Sorry, but this was Acadamy Award stuff compared to the Olympic Coverage. They (CBS) showed mostly human interest stuff and no sports.  But let’s not get started on this or we’ll have to start a new thread. If the race were a runaway victory from 13 miles on, then perhaps, but this was one of the closest major marathon finishes in history with 3 males in contention right to the end….

It was very exciting and I’m glad they didn’t veer off from the finish. Both the men’s and women’s was close and a thrill to watch right up until the end. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – espn2 is broadcasting live I got what I expected, but I was disappointed.  Two hours of watching front pack turnover.  Great camera work, but very little thought.  Very little human interest and no connection with the "average" runner.  A great finish, mind you, but most of it was about as interesting as watching golf. I disagree–watching only the end is like watching only the last 2 minutes of an NBA game in that one does not see how the teams got to that point. It’s too bad that the networks don’t realize that we’re just as interested in the folks in the mid-pack and bringing up the tail.  What brings a 70′ish runner to his or her 100th marathon?  Any special stories in the crowd (and how couldn’t there be in a crowd of 32,000 with 3 million spectators).  How about the organization of volunteers.  How does the average person train for such an event. How does the average person train?  There are volumes on this topic with tons of books and Runner’s World to take care of this. It’s too bad that we constantly concentrate only on the 1 or 2 individuals that "win" the race, instead of the many many more that win just as big.  I was particularly taken by the description of the young lady who dropped off to a "disappointing" third. Oh well.  Maybe some day PBS will cover the event.  ;-) BTW: My wife finished at 4:00.  She was trying for a Boston qualification but faded in the last 2 miles with leg pain.  Probably too much trail running and not enough long runs in the streets.  But how can you help yourself in the like; she’d appreciate it.  Her next goal is the Wasatch 100 next fall. Mark Congrats to your wife, but I cannot imagine NYCM being a place to run a qualifying time unless they adopt the ChampionChip Good luck to her at Wasatch…..

Response:

I couldn’t believe it when I saw that — what the heck was he thinking?  And I turned and said to my husband — "look at the stupid fat guy!"  LOL Did anyone happen to catch the "official", a fat guy in an orange jacket, almost collide with the front pack about 2 miles from the finish.  He was telling people to get out of the way or something and roamed around the course with his back to the runners.  I would have been very pissed if that was me.

The guy still takes second place to a policeman at the finish of one of the legs of the Tour de France a few years back. He leaned out from in front of a fence (where he was supposed to be controlling the crowd) to take a picture of the finishing sprint and took out most of the entire lead pack who were sprinting at 40+ mph. Mike "A dufus’s dufus" Tennent "TriBop" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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I couldn’t believe it when I saw that — what the heck was he thinking?  And I turned and said to my husband — "look at the stupid fat guy!"  LOL Did anyone happen to catch the "official", a fat guy in an orange jacket, almost collide with the front pack about 2 miles from the finish.  He was telling people to get out of the way or something and roamed around the course with his back to the runners.  I would have been very pissed if that was me.

Diane E. "Keep on thinking free…" — Moody Blues

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espn2 is broadcasting live I got what I expected, but I was disappointed.  Two hours of watching front pack turnover.  

– After this coverage I don’t want to hear one single word about this Tecla woman for the rest of my life. Pete

Response:

I got what I expected, but I was disappointed.  Two hours of watching front pack turnover.

I was glad ESPN2 carried the NYC Marathon and I thought their coverage was good.  I am not going to get upset because it wasn’t what I hoped to see.  As far as I know, it is the only marathon carried live on TV, so I am very thankful to ESPN2 for this.   Sure, it would have been great to have a camera on the mid-packers at several points along the course.  Or, perhaps to see a commentator like ex-football great BUT average runner Lynn Swan struggle on the course as he did several years ago.   Endurance events like marathon, triathlon, and cycling are all participant sports and not for spectators at least televison spectators.  If everyone could do what we do, then would we?   — Rick Loggins

Response:

        I saw this and then it was the Play of the Day on CNN sports!  What a dufus!!!!   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did anyone happen to catch the "official", a fat guy in an orange jacket, almost collide with the front pack about 2 miles from the finish.  He was telling people to get out of the way or something and roamed around the course with his back to the runners.  I would have been very pissed if that was me. Idiot. Megan I got what I expected, but I was disappointed.  Two hours of watching front pack turnover.  Great camera work, but very little thought.  Very little human interest and no connection with the "average" runner.  A great finish, mind you, but most of it was about as interesting as watching golf. It’s too bad that the networks don’t realize that we’re just as interested in the folks in the mid-pack and bringing up the tail.  What brings a 70′ish runner to his or her 100th marathon?  Any special stories in the crowd (and how couldn’t there be in a crowd of 32,000 with 3 million spectators).  How about the organization of volunteers.  How does the average person train for such an event. It’s too bad that we constantly concentrate only on the 1 or 2 individuals that "win" the race, instead of the many many more that win just as big.  I was particularly taken by the description of the young lady who dropped off to a "disappointing" third. Oh well.  Maybe some day PBS will cover the event.  ;-) BTW: My wife finished at 4:00.  She was trying for a Boston qualification but faded in the last 2 miles with leg pain.  Probably too much trail running and not enough long runs in the streets.  But how can you help yourself in the like; she’d appreciate it.  Her next goal is the Wasatch 100 next fall. Mark

Response:

        Goodness, there is no way to please all.  The Olympic coverage by CBS and NBC get blasted when they do human interest pieces.  Ironman coverage on NBC same thing.         If the race were a runaway victory from 13 miles on, then perhaps, but this was one of the closest major marathon finishes in history with 3 males in contention right to the end…. espn2 is broadcasting live I got what I expected, but I was disappointed.  Two hours of watching front pack turnover.  Great camera work, but very little thought.  Very little human interest and no connection with the "average" runner.  A great finish, mind you, but most of it was about as interesting as watching golf.

        I disagree–watching only the end is like watching only the last 2 minutes of an NBA game in that one does not see how the teams got to that point. It’s too bad that the networks don’t realize that we’re just as interested in the folks in the mid-pack and bringing up the tail.  What brings a 70′ish runner to his or her 100th marathon?  Any special stories in the crowd (and how couldn’t there be in a crowd of 32,000 with 3 million spectators).  How about the organization of volunteers.  How does the average person train for such an event.

        How does the average person train?  There are volumes on this topic with tons of books and Runner’s World to take care of this. It’s too bad that we constantly concentrate only on the 1 or 2 individuals that "win" the race, instead of the many many more that win just as big.  I was particularly taken by the description of the young lady who dropped off to a "disappointing" third.   Oh well.  Maybe some day PBS will cover the event.  ;-) BTW: My wife finished at 4:00.  She was trying for a Boston qualification but faded in the last 2 miles with leg pain.  Probably too much trail running and not enough long runs in the streets.  But how can you help yourself in the she’d appreciate it.  Her next goal is the Wasatch 100 next fall. Mark

        Congrats to your wife, but I cannot imagine NYCM being a place to run a qualifying time unless they adopt the ChampionChip         Good luck to her at Wasatch…..

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – espn2 is broadcasting live I got what I expected, but I was disappointed.  Two hours of watching front pack turnover.  Great camera work, but very little thought.  Very little human interest and no connection with the "average" runner.  A great finish, mind you, but most of it was about as interesting as watching golf. It’s too bad that the networks don’t realize that we’re just as interested in the folks in the mid-pack and bringing up the tail.  What brings a 70′ish runner to his or her 100th marathon?  Any special stories in the crowd (and how couldn’t there be in a crowd of 32,000 with 3 million spectators).  How about the organization of volunteers.  How does the average person train for such an event. It’s too bad that we constantly concentrate only on the 1 or 2 individuals that "win" the race, instead of the many many more that win just as big.  I was particularly taken by the description of the young lady who dropped off to a "disappointing" third.   Oh well.  Maybe some day PBS will cover the event.  ;-) BTW: My wife finished at 4:00.  She was trying for a Boston qualification but faded in the last 2 miles with leg pain.  Probably too much trail running and not enough long runs in the streets.  But how can you help yourself in the she’d appreciate it.  Her next goal is the Wasatch 100 next fall. Mark

In the mid-90s, ABC dropped the NYC marathon and ESPN picked it up. ABC used to spend about 20% of the time focusing on the mid pack runners with some of their commentators (Lynn Swann one year) actually running the race with a camera and mike following him. It was great human interest. I guess we should be lucky that it’s being carried at all on ESPN but I think today was the low point in their commentary. Larry Rawson continuosly in the last part of the race referred to the men’s number’s  as F-2 and F-3. I figured after he did it a couple of times, his producer would get him to stop and apologize but he just kept on. The other big gaff was at the woman’s finish when the other ESPN  reported that the finisher was greeted by LeBow, who has been dead since 1994. Well he did look like him a bit. Bill

Response:

Are any of the major networks covering the marathon today?

Response:

espn2 is broadcasting live

Response:

Did anyone happen to catch the "official", a fat guy in an orange jacket, almost collide with the front pack about 2 miles from the finish.  He was telling people to get out of the way or something and roamed around the course with his back to the runners.  I would have been very pissed if that was me. Idiot. Megan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I got what I expected, but I was disappointed.  Two hours of watching front pack turnover.  Great camera work, but very little thought.  Very little human interest and no connection with the "average" runner.  A great finish, mind you, but most of it was about as interesting as watching golf. It’s too bad that the networks don’t realize that we’re just as interested in the folks in the mid-pack and bringing up the tail.  What brings a 70′ish runner to his or her 100th marathon?  Any special stories in the crowd (and how couldn’t there be in a crowd of 32,000 with 3 million spectators).  How about the organization of volunteers.  How does the average person train for such an event. It’s too bad that we constantly concentrate only on the 1 or 2 individuals that "win" the race, instead of the many many more that win just as big.  I was particularly taken by the description of the young lady who dropped off to a "disappointing" third. Oh well.  Maybe some day PBS will cover the event.  ;-) BTW: My wife finished at 4:00.  She was trying for a Boston qualification but faded in the last 2 miles with leg pain.  Probably too much trail running and not enough long runs in the streets.  But how can you help yourself in the like; she’d appreciate it.  Her next goal is the Wasatch 100 next fall. Mark

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espn2 is broadcasting live

I got what I expected, but I was disappointed.  Two hours of watching front pack turnover.  Great camera work, but very little thought.  Very little human interest and no connection with the "average" runner.  A great finish, mind you, but most of it was about as interesting as watching golf. It’s too bad that the networks don’t realize that we’re just as interested in the folks in the mid-pack and bringing up the tail.  What brings a 70′ish runner to his or her 100th marathon?  Any special stories in the crowd (and how couldn’t there be in a crowd of 32,000 with 3 million spectators).  How about the organization of volunteers.  How does the average person train for such an event. It’s too bad that we constantly concentrate only on the 1 or 2 individuals that "win" the race, instead of the many many more that win just as big.  I was particularly taken by the description of the young lady who dropped off to a "disappointing" third.   Oh well.  Maybe some day PBS will cover the event.  ;-) BTW: My wife finished at 4:00.  She was trying for a Boston qualification but faded in the last 2 miles with leg pain.  Probably too much trail running and not enough long runs in the streets.  But how can you help yourself in the she’d appreciate it.  Her next goal is the Wasatch 100 next fall. Mark

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – espn2 is broadcasting live I got what I expected, but I was disappointed.  Two hours of watching front pack turnover.  Great camera work, but very little thought.  Very little human interest and no connection with the "average" runner.  A great finish, mind you, but most of it was about as interesting as watching golf. It’s too bad that the networks don’t realize that we’re just as interested in the folks in the mid-pack and bringing up the tail.  What brings a 70′ish runner to his or her 100th marathon?  Any special stories in the crowd (and how couldn’t there be in a crowd of 32,000 with 3 million spectators).  How about the organization of volunteers.  How does the average person train for such an event. It’s too bad that we constantly concentrate only on the 1 or 2 individuals that "win" the race, instead of the many many more that win just as big.  I was particularly taken by the description of the young lady who dropped off to a "disappointing" third. Oh well.  Maybe some day PBS will cover the event.  ;-) BTW: My wife finished at 4:00.  She was trying for a Boston qualification but faded in the last 2 miles with leg pain.  Probably too much trail running and not enough long runs in the streets.  But how can you help yourself in the like; she’d appreciate it.  Her next goal is the Wasatch 100 next fall. Mark

It just goes to show–different strokes for different folks. I thought the coverage was as bad as I have ever seen it–BUT–the last thing I want to sit through is a bunch of brain-numbing features on *heroic* middle of the pack runners. There’s a place for stuff like that–it’s called *Oprah*. I want to see an athletic event. I want to see split times, significant moves, and hear more news about what is happening to contending performers who might not be in the lead pack. If I want the *middle of the pack* experience, I’ll run the race myself. I want to see something different–what it’s like at the *front* of the pack….;-) (Don’t take my remarks *too* seriously–I’m being deliberately acerbic for the sake of argument. I would not mind the type of features you are describing, if they could figure out a way to do it without screwing up coverage of the race *and* if you could get serious race info as well). Rick Gerwin PS: I’ll NEVER complain about the local TV coverage of the Chicago marathon again. Those guys were Emmy-winners compared with what I saw on ESPN2 today. PPS: I can’t remember the name of the women’s winner–but I think I’m in love…;-) What a gutsy run–best I’ve seen since Joan Benoit won the 1984 Olympics.

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Question:

I’m just starting to train for triathlons and duathlons.  What are some of the best training books I can read to gain knowledge in my training? — Jason Blais

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I’m just starting to train for triathlons and duathlons.  What are some of the best training books I can read to gain knowledge in my training? — Jason Blais

A few off the top of my head: "Swim, Bike Run" by Tod Kearney (& another author whose name I’ve forgotten) – beginner’s book "SERIOUS training for SERIOUS athletes" by Rob Sleamaker – invaluable but some find it too technical "Lactate, Threshold, Pulse Rate" – interesting but _very_ technical Triathon Training Manual (or some such title) by Steve Trew – my current training bible adrian IMUK98 12:19                           Dare to dream !

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I’m just starting to train for triathlons and duathlons.  What are some of the best training books I can read to gain knowledge in my training? — Jason Blais A few off the top of my head: "Swim, Bike Run" by Tod Kearney (& another author whose name I’ve forgotten) – beginner’s book "SERIOUS training for SERIOUS athletes" by Rob Sleamaker – invaluable but some find it too technical

        Go for the second edition co-written with Ray Browing:  SERIOUS Training for Endurance Athletes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Lactate, Threshold, Pulse Rate" – interesting but _very_ technical Triathon Training Manual (or some such title) by Steve Trew – my current training bible adrian IMUK98 12:19                           Dare to dream !

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I bought Roger Cedaro’s Triathlon book…don’t recall the EXACT name of it right now, but it’s a black hardcover book with "TRIATHLON" on the front in big letters. (That might actually BE the title, come to think of it. <grin) It’s pretty technical, but I found it interesting and informative. Aloha, -Ben- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m just starting to train for triathlons and duathlons.  What are some of the best training books I can read to gain knowledge in my training? — Jason Blais A few off the top of my head: "Swim, Bike Run" by Tod Kearney (& another author whose name I’ve forgotten) – beginner’s book "SERIOUS training for SERIOUS athletes" by Rob Sleamaker – invaluable but some find it too technical    Go for the second edition co-written with Ray Browing:  SERIOUS Training for Endurance Athletes. "Lactate, Threshold, Pulse Rate" – interesting but _very_ technical Triathon Training Manual (or some such title) by Steve Trew – my current training bible adrian IMUK98 12:19                           Dare to dream !

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Question:

i take it you have at least done one triathlon before, right?

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As usual, Ruth has seen to the heart of the matter. David, your idea about linking your participation to fund-raising for medical research is a good one.  As Ruth said, IronMan training/racing necessarily puts one’s focus on one’s self; figuring out a way to spread your good luck around makes sense.  I’ve done Hawaii twice, and both times I managed to combine donations and my own $$ to give to Ironman Foundation, which supports good things on the Big Island.  I pegged it at so much $ per minute between the top finisher (i.e., Mark Allen) and me. As for training, if you have a good base, it is eminently possible to train for an Ironman in 15 hours/week.  I’ve done it 8 times.  This leaves time for the rest of one’s life–esp. family.  For me, I’ve found that one 2-hour run is worth 3 1-hour runs, one 4-hour bike is worth 6 1-hour bikes in terms of getting ready to race.  Hence the key to using training time efficiently is to pack it into good-sized chunks rather than dribble it out. Drink *plenty* of fluids–including during training, don’t go over your red-line (heart-rate-wise), and stay relaxed.  The Hawaii course is (IMHO) one of the less demanding ones around except if the winds really kick up. But keep that a secret! Enjoy! Greg Markus

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Hi, I apologize for responding to this post so late, but I can blame it on the sporadic way in which messages filter on to my system. I can only agree with Ruth on this issue. Although I love triathlons and number many of my friends among triathletes, there are a certain number of triathletes who are (to put it mildly) self-absorbed. This is triathlon; it is not finding a cure for the Ebola virus or cancer or saving lives in a burning building. We *do* need a little perspective. It’s a race and, as such, a tribute mostly to the will and single-mindedness of the athlete. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a *good* thing — but not universally so. I’ve met several triathletes who lie to their spouses in order to sneak in a little extra training. That’s single-minded alright (double entendre intended). I’ve been doing multisports events almoost weekly (and certainly weakly) in season since the end of ‘89. There are lots of highly competitive athletes who are neighbors, recognize me, but will not respond to a, "Hello." (Lack of speed is not catching folks). Those folks certainly have what it takes to do well in an IM, but I’m sure that I don’t want whatever else it is that they have. (I should hasten to point out that for every one or two of those individuals there are others like Dolly Ginter, Jim Gleason, and Troy Jacobson who although super-accomplished in triathlon are still real people first). <Soap Box mode off Ruth’s note did strike a very responsive chord. See some of you in Columbia, I hope (Say "Hello" — I’m counting Jim Starr (Tri-Pooh) "May the wind be always at your back."     —  Old Irish proverb.                                 O                    __ 0       /()_      "It’s the last uphill, so      _ /        _ <,_     _"/  "      let’s turn those puppies   /( )         (_) (_)   "    |_       over!"

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I’m between Ruth and the previous poster.  The distance is fun and finishing is something I’m proud of.  But not everyone does, almost 25% of the starters at the Great Floridian last year did not finish.  Biggest aids in helping me finish… o Several Century Rides (try not to draft) o Swim Bike Run (todd & kearney) – good example training schedules and logic. o Polar Heart Rate Monitor – (trained long and slow, raced long and slow, finished comfortably) o Optimum SPorts Nutrition (Dr. Micheal Colgan)- (halfway through my training I found I was losing     muscle, this advice helped me meet the nutrition demands so I could grow it instead) o Training to Eat – Your body does funny things when you spend 10 or more hours in constant    movement.  Train on what you expect to consume during the race. o Focus on Next Mile Marker – the toughtest part is mental, not physical. After the relief of getting    of the bike has passed, and you realize how far you still have to go, it’s tough not to get down.    Keep your chine up with the thought of …one more mile…just one more mile… Good Luck!

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 This event is truly the test of mind and body. Get in the water, on your bike, and on the road. Devote your life to this opportunity and you will be richly rewarded.  Take it lightly, and suffer the consequences. I cannot possibly disagree more.  Triathlon, my beloved sport, tends under the best of circumstances to cause one’s eyes to focus excessively on one’s navel.  This cannot be interpreted as one of life’s finer opportunities.  As a test of mind, even that glorious race, the IM, does not compare to the daily challenges met by most of the netters.  As a test of body, no matter how demanding the race, for most athletes it is not a challenge to one’s skills, but only to endurance.  Mentally and physically, can you last?  Ignoring what you have seen on the TV freak show, the answer is yes, almost 100% do last and come in with a smile and certainly a well earned smug feeling of having endured.  But "devote your life to this opportunity?"  These rewards are piddling compared to those achieved by time spent with eyes focused not on your own heart, but someone else’s, creating not a longer and more detailed log of self-absorbed miles, but perhaps some data about first words and first steps, discussing and listening to friends about something other than the triathlete’s usual detailed monologue. What does it take to do the Ironman?  In addition to whatever you usually swim weekly in preparation for a 1 mile swim, do a distance swim, adding 500 meters every three weeks until you reach 4000 meters.  Same for the bike.  Increase the week’s long ride by 10 or 20 miles until you reach 100 miles.  Extend the weekly long run until you’re running 15 miles plus a 5 mile walk, leaving the rest of the week’s run the same.  Except for the long ride, this doesn’t really add much time to your workouts and should take not very much more time away from your life. By all means, contrary to the poster’s advice, I suggest you "take it lightly," enjoy the training and the wonderful race and keep a life. I love the Hawaiian Ironman.  It is the ultimate  race (but nothing more.) Ruth Kazez

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Wow, I can’t believe it, I was 1 of 35 people who was selected from the domestinc loottery for the BIG race at Kona. Now, I really need help. I have a pretty good understanding about trianing and diet but I really am looking for some detailed suggestions from experienced ironmen and women who have done this race. I am concerned about the differnt weather and would like some input as far as the terrain. Any other suggestions especially with regards to the nutritional requirements for such a race would also be greatly appreciated.  I’ve also decided to try and incorporate a fund raiser with the race.  I will be launching a campaign for the American Cancer Society. If anyone out there can make any suggestions about combining the two please let me know. Excited but a little intimidated, No doubt it will be an experience! Sincerely, David Cordani

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Wow, I can’t believe it, I was 1 of 35 people who was selected from the domestinc loottery for the BIG race at Kona. Now, I really need help. Excited but a little intimidated, No doubt it will be an experience! Sincerely, David Cordani

David, I can not stress stongly enough what an opportunity you have just been handed. It will take everything you have to make it to the starting line at Kona, and more than you think you have to make it to the finish. This event is truly the test of mind and body. Get in the water, on your bike, and on the road. Devote your life to this opportunity and you will be richly rewarded. Take it lightly, and suffer the consequences. Best wishes, and cancel your Internet account cause you’re not gonna have time anymore.                                                                  -=Mark=- Member of JTL Timing Systems, Timers of The Gatorade Ironman

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Question:

I caught the end of the discussion on PC based training software, but most of those packages seem to run on DOS or Windows.  I’m really looking for a package taht (that) will run on a Macintosh.  Any thoughts? Sean

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Sean asked a question on training software for the Mac.  The Athletes Diary and ask for info. Thom Peters

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   In my previous post, I gushed about how great is The Athlete’s Diary. What I forgot to say was how great is attended the Hawaii Ironman Triathlon in October, and gave those of us at America Online an up-t0-the-minute account of the race. We read the results (Mark and Paula!) *days* before I saw the results posted elsewhere. Good job, Steve!    Run, swim, bike, eat!    Clint    Princeton, NJ  r

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Sean asked a question on training software for the Mac.  The Athletes Diary and ask for info. Thom Peters

   I will add my own hearty endorsement of The Athlete’s Diary. I have been an ecstatic user of TAD (on the Macintosh) for more than three years. TAD supports an easy-to-use interface, up to ten different sports, will calculate units, remember routes, and a whole bunch of other things I don’t remember. I liked the program so much that I gave the Windows (yucch!) version of the program to my brother for Christmas. The Windows version is, IMHO, greatly inferior to the Mac version. The best feature (I remember now) is the ability to graphically display your workouts on a weekly or monthly basis.    Stevens Creek Software    21346 Rumford Drive    Cupertino, CA 95014    FAX: 408/725-0424    Ask for Steve Patt (tell him ClintMacD sent you!)    Run, swim, bike, eat!    Clint    Princeton, NJ o

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