Question:

Thanks for the tips. My plan for next time : increase my weekly mileage; take fewer supplements; do NOTHING different on marathon day than during my long runs. Worry less about my time during the first 8-10 miles…on the big scale of things a couple minutes won’t matter.

Response:

Thanks for the tips. My plan for next time : increase my weekly mileage; take fewer supplements; do NOTHING different on marathon day than during my long runs. Worry less about my time during the first 8-10 miles…on the big scale of things a couple minutes won’t matter.

A quick learner! The beauty of doing a first marathon is – it is done.  Everything is a bit of a guess, and some things work better than others.  As we are all different, you try to learn from others, but many things become clearer during the race itself.  Based on your training, it seemed as though you should have done better.  Some days are better or worse than others (for no apparent reason) and you just have to hope your race falls on a good day. Congrats on finishing in tough conditions – ya done well. d

Response:

Thanks for the suggestion. You may have hit it. Especially since I was drinking water, not PowerAid, it is possible that I was lowering my sodium content/water at every station, which I made sure not to miss!

By way of an anecdotal/apocryphal aside, I usually reckon that if you eat a salty snack after you’ve been sweating/exercising a lot and it *doesn’t taste salty*, then that’s probably a reasonable sign that you’re salt depleted. Tim

Response:

By way of an anecdotal/apocryphal aside, I usually reckon that if you eat a salty snack after you’ve been sweating/exercising a lot and it *doesn’t taste salty*, then that’s probably a reasonable sign that you’re salt depleted.

I’m not sure that is a good judge. To me this sounds too much like waiting until you are thirsty to drink. Taste buds are a different animal compared to electrolyte balance in your stomach. Just an opinion. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

By way of an anecdotal/apocryphal aside, I usually reckon that if you eat a salty snack after you’ve been sweating/exercising a lot and it *doesn’t taste salty*, then that’s probably a reasonable sign that you’re salt depleted. I’m not sure that is a good judge. To me this sounds too much like waiting until you are thirsty to drink.

I think you misunderstand me.  I’m not advocating this as a way of regulating your salt or water intake.  It’s more a sign that you’ve already cocked things up.  The times when this has occured to me is when I’ve exercised hard and only drunk water. Taste buds are a different animal compared to electrolyte balance in your stomach. Just an opinion.

Um… It’s not the electrolyte balance in your stomach that I was talking about.  I do suspect that having an altered plasma sodium concentration could well alter ones sense of taste. As I said, this is anecdotal only but I’d be interested to hear from any practicing doctors in the group.  (Josh?) Tim

Response:

Um… It’s not the electrolyte balance in your stomach that I was talking about.  I do suspect that having an altered plasma sodium concentration could well alter ones sense of taste. As I said, this is anecdotal only but I’d be interested to hear from any practicing doctors in the group.  (Josh?)

I can’t say I’ve observed that the taste changes, but what I have noticed is I crave something salty.

Response:

Hey Alan: Great effort in your race. You accepted the challenge and conquered it despite your legs acting up. I think this is an effort you can be proud of. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is Alan Goldstein – I’m on my wife’s computer , mine is down. Yesterday was my first Marathon…here are my long training runs over the last 4 months- 13 miles 3 times –  15m once – 17m twice – 18m once – 20 miles once – 21 once – 26 once (3 weeks ago) time 4:59 Since I sweat allot and had trouble with cramps 3 years ago training for a half marathon, I take potassium and calcium/magnesium daily. Prior to yesterday, I was not doing anything special on LSD runs, drinking water every 4 miles and gels also every 4.25 m. No problems during long runs. Yesterday, the things I did different were: 200 mg caffeine – 1 hr before beginning plus 2 Power gels – double caffinated – more water during run -water every water station – potassium and calcium/mg at 8 miles. Started slowly due to the crush of people – Galloway doesn’t work very well under these conditions – every body passes you when you walk, but you can’t get any pace when you run because of all the people going slowly in front of you. Plus you have to stop at the water stations . This occurs for about the first 6-7 miles. I felt fine at 8 – 10 miles , a little slow for me (89 minutes at 8 miles). THen it happened – at 12 miles I felt a twinge in my right calf- tried to stretch it out – by 13 it had spread to the whole leg and my left calf. Even with this problem and a pee stop I did a 2:30 hm so I thought I would have a had a shot at under 5hrs. By 14 I knew I was in trouble, I felt great ,plenty of energy, just couldn’t run very well. I was hoping against hope that it would ease up, but it got worse, by 19 -20 my running was limited to 1 minute or less before my legs would tightened up painfully, then I would walk as quick as I could until I thought I could try to run again. So……I am now a very slow marathoner….I finished in 5:43, limping and lurching across the line. So….what the heck happened? I thought I was well prepared, I had no cramp problems during training, did plenty of long runs and tapered like all suggested. Any ideas would be appreciated. I have mixed feelings – I did it – yea, but I am very unsatisfied with my time. One thing is worth mentioning…..we (it is great to say WE) do marathons for many reasons, but one of the main ones is to accept the challenge and conquer it. At mile 14 yesterday, I knew that I had 12 miles left and that my legs were messed up. Somehow I still finished and it might have been the toughest thing I have ever done. There is definitely some satisfaction there. But next time I want to run it the "easy " way! Sooo,  Any ideas?

Response:

You have a great point. Although I thought I was slow, by the time you add all the jockeying for position, I might have actually been moving at a far greater rate than I should have. Plus the movement was sideways, etc. I don’t now if it was the cause of my cramps, but it sure couldn’t have helped.

Response:

You smooth-footed devil, your wife must have been right in front of me and you right behind me. And you didn’t even stop to say "hello" or "hey, move your fat butt over!"

If you saw three ladies running in yellow "Serious Penguin" shirts, that was them.  One husband made the shirts, I provided the penguin logo. Mike Tennent IPE Crossing Guard Detector/ Flashers Operating Traffic Lights, HO/N http://www.ironpeng.com/ipe/

Response:

My opinions. 1. You ran a marathon three weeks ago. I don’t care what Galloway says – 26 miles three weeks before a beginner marathon  is stupid. 2. You didn’t use those products before race day … tisk, tisk. And, then all that caffeine. 3. You ran a marathon in Florida. 4. Finally, these things happen. Don’t get down it’s over. Learn, and climb back on the horse for another try.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is Alan Goldstein – I’m on my wife’s computer , mine is down. Yesterday was my first Marathon…here are my long training runs over the last 4 months- 13 miles 3 times –  15m once – 17m twice – 18m once – 20 miles once – 21 once – 26 once (3 weeks ago) time 4:59 Since I sweat allot and had trouble with cramps 3 years ago training for a half marathon, I take potassium and calcium/magnesium daily. Prior to yesterday, I was not doing anything special on LSD runs, drinking water every 4 miles and gels also every 4.25 m. No problems during long runs. Yesterday, the things I did different were: 200 mg caffeine – 1 hr before beginning plus 2 Power gels – double caffinated – more water during run -water every water station – potassium and calcium/mg at 8 miles. Started slowly due to the crush of people – Galloway doesn’t work very well under these conditions – every body passes you when you walk, but you can’t get any pace when you run because of all the people going slowly in front of you. Plus you have to stop at the water stations . This occurs for about the first 6-7 miles. I felt fine at 8 – 10 miles , a little slow for me (89 minutes at 8 miles). THen it happened – at 12 miles I felt a twinge in my right calf- tried to stretch it out – by 13 it had spread to the whole leg and my left calf. Even with this problem and a pee stop I did a 2:30 hm so I thought I would have a had a shot at under 5hrs. By 14 I knew I was in trouble, I felt great ,plenty of energy, just couldn’t run very well. I was hoping against hope that it would ease up, but it got worse, by 19 -20 my running was limited to 1 minute or less before my legs would tightened up painfully, then I would walk as quick as I could until I thought I could try to run again. So……I am now a very slow marathoner….I finished in 5:43, limping and lurching across the line. So….what the heck happened? I thought I was well prepared, I had no cramp problems during training, did plenty of long runs and tapered like all suggested. Any ideas would be appreciated. I have mixed feelings – I did it – yea, but I am very unsatisfied with my time. One thing is worth mentioning…..we (it is great to say WE) do marathons for many reasons, but one of the main ones is to accept the challenge and conquer it. At mile 14 yesterday, I knew that I had 12 miles left and that my legs were messed up. Somehow I still finished and it might have been the toughest thing I have ever done. There is definitely some satisfaction there. But next time I want to run it the "easy " way! Sooo,  Any ideas?

Response:

Thanks for the suggestion. You may have hit it. Especially since I was drinking water, not PowerAid, it is possible that I was lowering my sodium content/water at every station, which I made sure not to miss!

Response:

: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1) The constant need to change directions to get around the packs of walkers. I don’t know who screwed up the corrals, but congestion was terrible for the first 7 miles or so and only improved marginally after that.  Walkers blocked the entire course repeatedly, oblivious to all those trying to get by them. Was it screwed up? My wife listed her goal time as 5 1/2 hours. We were in corral E. One of her friends listed 5 hours. She was in corral F. The third entered earlier than either of them and her husband put her down at 4 hours. She was in Corral G, the last one. Walkers, on the other hand, were reported to be as far up as corral B.

Tell me about it – My goal time was 2:50, and I was seeded in Corral G. I ended up moving up to corral C before the race because I knew what would happen, but I still ran into lots of slow traffic and ran on the side of the road for well over a mile just to pass people. Kent Kurfman

Response:

Fourth, yesterday (Sunday) were the worst weather conditions of any marathon I or any of the other runners I talked with today have run in, it was wet and cold, not exactly the best conditions to spend five hours outside – but you finished, bask in the glow of accomplishment and when you’re ready pick out the next one and go for it.

It got pretty nasty out there, that’s for sure. A couple of things may have contributed to leg problems, which my wife and her friends also encountered: 1) The constant need to change directions to get around the packs of walkers. I don’t know who screwed up the corrals, but congestion was terrible for the first 7 miles or so and only improved marginally after that.  Walkers blocked the entire course repeatedly, oblivious to all those trying to get by them. Was it screwed up? My wife listed her goal time as 5 1/2 hours. We were in corral E. One of her friends listed 5 hours. She was in corral F. The third entered earlier than either of them and her husband put her down at 4 hours. She was in Corral G, the last one. Walkers, on the other hand, were reported to be as far up as corral B. 2) The camber of the roads on the clover leaf sections was pretty severe. It bothered my knees every time we hit one. 3) Wet surfaces can contribute to leg problems since you don’t have the normal traction you have on dry surfaces. 4) The cold rain and wind can tie your legs up quick. It bothered me. All of the above can cause knee and leg problems. We had all of them. You can take a little pride in finishing under very adverse conditions. My wife and her friends finished together at 5:09. I surprised myself by staying with them for 21 miles, then bowed to my lack of training and Gallowayed it on in, finishing about 10  minutes behind them. We all looked like drowned rats in our pictures. <g It was a beautiful race until about the 2:30 time mark when the skies opened up, the winds howled, and the temperature dropped. Nasty, ugly, not much fun. My knees, ankle, and legs feel relatively good today, although I have to admit that yesterday was as sore as I’ve ever felt after a marathon. You can’t do these things on two 9 mile "long" runs the weeks before. Getting to 21 miles without stopping was a surprise. I expected to melt down about 14 or 15. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, ‘99, ‘00 ‘01 Great Floridian

Response:

You smooth-footed devil, your wife must have been right in front of me and you right behind me. And you didn’t even stop to say "hello" or "hey, move your fat butt over!" You are right about the corrals, I think the teams in training tend to really mess them up. One year they place us by when they received your application, now that was a mess. Congrats on hanging in there. January 12, 2003 ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fourth, yesterday (Sunday) were the worst weather conditions of any marathon I or any of the other runners I talked with today have run in, it was wet and cold, not exactly the best conditions to spend five hours outside – but you finished, bask in the glow of accomplishment and when you’re ready pick out the next one and go for it. It got pretty nasty out there, that’s for sure. A couple of things may have contributed to leg problems, which my wife and her friends also encountered: 1) The constant need to change directions to get around the packs of walkers. I don’t know who screwed up the corrals, but congestion was terrible for the first 7 miles or so and only improved marginally after that.  Walkers blocked the entire course repeatedly, oblivious to all those trying to get by them. Was it screwed up? My wife listed her goal time as 5 1/2 hours. We were in corral E. One of her friends listed 5 hours. She was in corral F. The third entered earlier than either of them and her husband put her down at 4 hours. She was in Corral G, the last one. Walkers, on the other hand, were reported to be as far up as corral B. 2) The camber of the roads on the clover leaf sections was pretty severe. It bothered my knees every time we hit one. 3) Wet surfaces can contribute to leg problems since you don’t have the normal traction you have on dry surfaces. 4) The cold rain and wind can tie your legs up quick. It bothered me. All of the above can cause knee and leg problems. We had all of them. You can take a little pride in finishing under very adverse conditions. My wife and her friends finished together at 5:09. I surprised myself by staying with them for 21 miles, then bowed to my lack of training and Gallowayed it on in, finishing about 10  minutes behind them. We all looked like drowned rats in our pictures. <g It was a beautiful race until about the 2:30 time mark when the skies opened up, the winds howled, and the temperature dropped. Nasty, ugly, not much fun. My knees, ankle, and legs feel relatively good today, although I have to admit that yesterday was as sore as I’ve ever felt after a marathon. You can’t do these things on two 9 mile "long" runs the weeks before. Getting to 21 miles without stopping was a surprise. I expected to melt down about 14 or 15. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, ‘99, ‘00 ‘01 Great Floridian

Response:

This is Alan Goldstein – I’m on my wife’s computer , mine is down. Yesterday was my first Marathon…

Somehow I still finished and it might have been the toughest thing I have ever done. There is definitely some satisfaction there. But next time I want to run it the "easy " way! Sooo,  Any ideas?

Alan, Congratulations on working through the pain and finishing your first marathon. That must be neat feeling to finish it even when things don’t go as planned. Dot

Response:

This is Alan Goldstein – I’m on my wife’s computer , mine is down. Yesterday was my first Marathon…here are my long training runs over the last 4 months- 13 miles 3 times –  15m once – 17m twice – 18m once – 20 miles once – 21 once – 26 once (3 weeks ago) time 4:59 Since I sweat allot and had trouble with cramps 3 years ago training for a half marathon, I take potassium and calcium/magnesium daily.

<snip So……I am now a very slow marathoner….I finished in 5:43, limping and lurching across the line. So….what the heck happened? I thought I was well prepared, I had no cramp problems during training, did plenty of long runs and tapered like all suggested. Any ideas would be appreciated.

There does seem to be a bit of an obsession amongst runners with potassium as a cause of cramps.  Potassium is predominately an intracellular ion and will be relatively little affected by sweating.   What is affected *much* more is sodium which is mostly in your plasma, not your cells. Hyponatraemia (low sodium) is a well recognised cause of muscle cramps.  If you you simply sweated a lot, your plasma sodium would not fall that much. If you sweat a lot *and* replace it with liquids that contain little or no sodium, you are at risk of hyponataemia.  Severe hyponatraemia can be life threatening.  I’m not saying that low potassium is never the cause of cramps, just that low sodium is probably commoner. Next time you get muscle cramp, try a salty snack or a sodium containing drink.  If your cramps quickly go away (and it will occur within minutes) then you’ve found the likely cause of your cramps. HTH Tim

Response:

Third, three weeks may have been to little time to recover from your last long run, it might have been better to get that one in two months out and do an 20 or 22 milers in between, with an 18 miler three weeks out.

Congratulations Alan.  I don’t know if I would have kept going with the pain you described.  If you remember me, I’m using the same type of plan (but I’m much slower) and shooting for the Las Vegas marathon in a few weeks.  I am wondering if the comment above might be the main cause of the problem.  I had decided against going up all the way to the 26 mile run, and then I hurt my foot anyway on Christmas, so I would never have been able to do it if I wanted.  (My highst was 22 the weekend before Christmas). I heard the weather was a problem too. My training really fell apart with the foot problem, but it feels fine now.  I’ll run a couple more times this week, and then try a 3 hour run on the weekend.  If all goes well, I may still do the marathon, or I may switch to the half (which I heard I can still do when I pick up my packet). If anything, I will be well rested for the attempt.

Response:

First, you finished. Congratulations. You did something that only a small percentage of people even attempt. Maybe it didn’t go exactly the way you planned it but you showed what you were made of and crossed the finish line. No one will ever look at you the same, you are a marathoner. Second, it just might not have been your best day. The fear of the unknown combined with the adrenaline of the moment can really screw up the best laid plans of mice and marathoners. Third, three weeks may have been to little time to recover from your last long run, it might have been better to get that one in two months out and do an 20 or 22 milers in between, with an 18 miler three weeks out. Fourth, you’ve got an almost medical obsession on supplements on the run. How can I tell, been there done that. My fastest marathons were before gels were even invented (OK I was a lot younger then) and no one sweats more than me. Last year I bonked big time at Disney, didn’t know why – found out I was literally ODing on all that sugar and it was killing me. I was consuming gels every couple of miles because I thought I was low on energy. Yesterday did it on nothing but Ade and water and took 26 minutes off last year’s time, with less training and still over 20 pounds heavier. Fourth, yesterday (Sunday) were the worst weather conditions of any marathon I or any of the other runners I talked with today have run in, it was wet and cold, not exactly the best conditions to spend five hours outside – but you finished, bask in the glow of accomplishment and when you’re ready pick out the next one and go for it. PS- the only easy marathons are the ones you get to ride in the press bus. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is Alan Goldstein – I’m on my wife’s computer , mine is down. Yesterday was my first Marathon…here are my long training runs over the last 4 months- 13 miles 3 times –  15m once – 17m twice – 18m once – 20 miles once – 21 once – 26 once (3 weeks ago) time 4:59 Since I sweat allot and had trouble with cramps 3 years ago training for a half marathon, I take potassium and calcium/magnesium daily. Prior to yesterday, I was not doing anything special on LSD runs, drinking water every 4 miles and gels also every 4.25 m. No problems during long runs. Yesterday, the things I did different were: 200 mg caffeine – 1 hr before beginning plus 2 Power gels – double caffinated – more water during run -water every water station – potassium and calcium/mg at 8 miles. Started slowly due to the crush of people – Galloway doesn’t work very well under these conditions – every body passes you when you walk, but you can’t get any pace when you run because of all the people going slowly in front of you. Plus you have to stop at the water stations . This occurs for about the first 6-7 miles. I felt fine at 8 – 10 miles , a little slow for me (89 minutes at 8 miles). THen it happened – at 12 miles I felt a twinge in my right calf- tried to stretch it out – by 13 it had spread to the whole leg and my left calf. Even with this problem and a pee stop I did a 2:30 hm so I thought I would have a had a shot at under 5hrs. By 14 I knew I was in trouble, I felt great ,plenty of energy, just couldn’t run very well. I was hoping against hope that it would ease up, but it got worse, by 19 -20 my running was limited to 1 minute or less before my legs would tightened up painfully, then I would walk as quick as I could until I thought I could try to run again. So……I am now a very slow marathoner….I finished in 5:43, limping and lurching across the line. So….what the heck happened? I thought I was well prepared, I had no cramp problems during training, did plenty of long runs and tapered like all suggested. Any ideas would be appreciated. I have mixed feelings – I did it – yea, but I am very unsatisfied with my time. One thing is worth mentioning…..we (it is great to say WE) do marathons for many reasons, but one of the main ones is to accept the challenge and conquer it. At mile 14 yesterday, I knew that I had 12 miles left and that my legs were messed up. Somehow I still finished and it might have been the toughest thing I have ever done. There is definitely some satisfaction there. But next time I want to run it the "easy " way! Sooo,  Any ideas?

Response:

This is Alan Goldstein – I’m on my wife’s computer , mine is down. Yesterday was my first Marathon…here are my long training runs over the last 4 months- 13 miles 3 times –  15m once – 17m twice – 18m once – 20 miles once – 21 once – 26 once (3 weeks ago) time 4:59 Since I sweat allot and had trouble with cramps 3 years ago training for a half marathon, I take potassium and calcium/magnesium daily. Prior to yesterday, I was not doing anything special on LSD runs, drinking water every 4 miles and gels also every 4.25 m. No problems during long runs. Yesterday, the things I did different were: 200 mg caffeine – 1 hr before beginning plus 2 Power gels – double caffinated – more water during run -water every water station – potassium and calcium/mg at 8 miles. Started slowly due to the crush of people – Galloway doesn’t work very well under these conditions – every body passes you when you walk, but you can’t get any pace when you run because of all the people going slowly in front of you. Plus you have to stop at the water stations . This occurs for about the first 6-7 miles. I felt fine at 8 – 10 miles , a little slow for me (89 minutes at 8 miles). THen it happened – at 12 miles I felt a twinge in my right calf- tried to stretch it out – by 13 it had spread to the whole leg and my left calf. Even with this problem and a pee stop I did a 2:30 hm so I thought I would have a had a shot at under 5hrs. By 14 I knew I was in trouble, I felt great ,plenty of energy, just couldn’t run very well. I was hoping against hope that it would ease up, but it got worse, by 19 -20 my running was limited to 1 minute or less before my legs would tightened up painfully, then I would walk as quick as I could until I thought I could try to run again. So……I am now a very slow marathoner….I finished in 5:43, limping and lurching across the line. So….what the heck happened? I thought I was well prepared, I had no cramp problems during training, did plenty of long runs and tapered like all suggested. Any ideas would be appreciated. I have mixed feelings – I did it – yea, but I am very unsatisfied with my time. One thing is worth mentioning…..we (it is great to say WE) do marathons for many reasons, but one of the main ones is to accept the challenge and conquer it. At mile 14 yesterday, I knew that I had 12 miles left and that my legs were messed up. Somehow I still finished and it might have been the toughest thing I have ever done. There is definitely some satisfaction there. But next time I want to run it the "easy " way! Sooo,  Any ideas?

Response:

Hi, Alan, This is Alan Goldstein – I’m on my wife’s computer , mine is down. Yesterday was my first Marathon…here are my long training runs over the last 4 months- 13 miles 3 times –  15m once – 17m twice – 18m once – 20 miles once – 21 once – 26 once (3 weeks ago) time 4:59

[report snipped but appreciated] Good for you! It sounds like it was painful but you finished. I’ve been there in a sprint triathalon and it’s one of the few events that I’m proud of – finishing when every part of me was saying stop. Of course, I can’t imagine your experience in the marathon. I’m glad you reported. Thanks, Layne rec.running report archives – http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Question:

 I gotta ask…how many of you have actually attended an ITU triathlon race and watched it up close?  It’s actually kind of interesting to see the difference vs. non-draft races.  My first was the the ITU Toronto World Cup race which I thoroughly enjoyed (…and I remember Rob Roller, Julie Leach, and Kurt Madden, etc.).

I saw St Anthony’s.  Definately interesting to see the differences, but overall not much more fun than watching my sneakers dry. tim(dogspot1) buaidh no bas

Response:

and most race directors discovered that the swim course became difficult to manage if it was the last leg.  Like keeping lifeguards out there for a much extended period of time.  And asking law enforcement officers to patrol the swim course for more than an hour.

Exactly – it would be more like a three hour stretch for the average wave start age-group tri.   Volunteers on the bike and run course needn’t maintain anywhere near the level of alertness a lifeguard needs, especially for a group open water swim.  Most pools don’t leave a lifeguard on station for more than 15 minutes at a time.

Response:

The swim really is the most dangerous?  How is that calculated?  By the number of triathletes drowning or just getting sick from bacteria–not to lessen the severity of the latter?  Cycling can be quite dangerous. Running–low risk for death from running itself. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Better change would be to eliminate drafting.  The swim has historically come first because of safety concerns. It is easier to keep an eye on everyone when they all start at the same time. The swim is the most dangerous of the 3 events and has the greatest impact on insurance preimums. Hope that clears things up for you. Why not change the order to cycle/swim/run?

Response:

The swim really is the most dangerous?  How is that calculated?  By the number of triathletes drowning or just getting sick from bacteria–not to lessen the severity of the latter?  Cycling can be quite dangerous. Running–low risk for death from running itself.

Both are dangerous sports. Bike crashes are usually "spectacular", with people knowing immediately that the cyclist is in trouble. Swimming is different; the organizers must use kayakers and lifeguards with a vigilant eye on every swimmer out there. Why? Because, unlike cycling, a swimmer can just slip under the water and drown without anyone knowing. Ask any organizer, and they can probably tell you what a headache the swim is during the race, trying to take account of everyone entering and (hopefully) exiting the water. Anyway, I’d rather cramp while cycling than cramp while swimming; cramping can even drown an experienced swimmer in the middle of the open water. You can just stop or coast on the bike when cramped. Might as well start triathletes off fresh than tired with the swim.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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Safety was a concern in the beginning, but other issues quickly loomed large.  The first was how to deal adequately with the finish of the race. A few events tried swim/run/bike (like the Texas Triathlon in College Station), but most discovered the finish line gets kind of hairy when three or four bikers start to sprint for the line at 25 mph +.  So, bike finishes quickly lost favor.  The choice then was swim or run, and most race directors discovered that the swim course became difficult to manage if it was the last leg.  Like keeping lifeguards out there for a much extended period of time.  And asking law enforcement officers to patrol the swim course for more than an hour.  And then there was the issue of other user groups for the body of water;  somehow, speedboats and Jetskis just didn’t mix well with open water swims. A few races did do the run/bike/swim format.  Ones that ended in a pool were most common;  an example is the kids triathlon staged each year at the St. Anthony’s race.  The workable format involves swimming down one lane, ducking under the lane line and swimming back up the next.  But the length of the swim is limited by the length and number of lanes in the pool (8 lanes, 25 yards, means your race can have a 200 yard swim at best).  And then there is one of the sport’s longest running events:  the Cypress Gardens Sertoma Triathlon (begun in 1979).  I talked to a recent participant the other day, and she said it still begins with a mass start three-mile run, followed by an eight-mile bike, and then a quarter-mile swim.  The organizer controls the entire venue, which makes it do-able – but it still is a pretty wild format (the run doesn’t separate things very much for the bike). One of the early ultras also had a run/bike/swim format.  The Rocky Mountain Triathlon in Estes Park, Colorado began with a marathon (on trails at 8,000+ feet, no less), then followed with an 80-mile bike and finished with a two-mile swim in a pool.  But even though people got pretty spread out and the fields weren’t huge, room in the pool got to be dicey.  And you really needed a lap counter for each swimmer.  The race disappeared by 1983 or so. Lew Kidder – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am by no means an expert, but I was always under the impression that it was a mainly safety oriented issue.  For example, if you’re going to crash (ie physically, not like on the bike) during an IM, its likely going to be closer to the end.  Therefore, while youre fresh, you swim (where if you pooped out or cramped you might drown), then the bike (where if you pooped out or cramped, you could crash at high speed), then run where you’d simply fall over.  Again, that was simply my impression of it. Before you buy.

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Sorry, I don’t follow you. X games? I was talking about Beach Volleyball. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …and the X Games are the real test of ones athletic abilities???? — Rick Loggins I guess I need to think of it the way I do volleyball. To somebody outside the sport, indoor and beach volleyball are the same sport. Many excel at both, but to me, beach is the only REAL volleyball. Indoor is something you do to stay in shape for the beach season if you have to. I have learned to let the people who think that indoor is better live the lie that is their life <g. I guess I can do the same for draft-legal tri fans. Tom I disagree.  Its not a poor example, its an alternative style of triathlon. One which some people like and enjoy.  It requires different tactics and a different style of racing.  Some people enjoy this style, just as some people like IM to the total exclusion of all else. Personally I’m getting a little sick of the bagging of draft legal triathlons. If you don’t like it don’t race in them. But for Gods sake stop whinging about it. Surely you’ve got better things to do with your time. AJ Most triathlons prohibit drafting on the bike leg.  The Olympic triathlon was a poor example of triathlon.

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I am by no means an expert, but I was always under the impression that it was a mainly safety oriented issue.  For example, if you’re going to crash (ie physically, not like on the bike) during an IM, its likely going to be closer to the end.  Therefore, while youre fresh, you swim (where if you pooped out or cramped you might drown), then the bike (where if you pooped out or cramped, you could crash at high speed), then run where you’d simply fall over.  Again, that was simply my impression of it. Before you buy.

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…and the X Games are the real test of ones athletic abilities???? — Rick Loggins

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I need to think of it the way I do volleyball. To somebody outside the sport, indoor and beach volleyball are the same sport. Many excel at both, but to me, beach is the only REAL volleyball. Indoor is something you do to stay in shape for the beach season if you have to. I have learned to let the people who think that indoor is better live the lie that is their life <g. I guess I can do the same for draft-legal tri fans. Tom I disagree.  Its not a poor example, its an alternative style of triathlon. One which some people like and enjoy.  It requires different tactics and a different style of racing.  Some people enjoy this style, just as some people like IM to the total exclusion of all else. Personally I’m getting a little sick of the bagging of draft legal triathlons. If you don’t like it don’t race in them. But for Gods sake stop whinging about it. Surely you’ve got better things to do with your time. AJ Most triathlons prohibit drafting on the bike leg.  The Olympic triathlon was a poor example of triathlon.

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Details, details! Yes. But I’ll still take my volleyball with sand and my tris without drafting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Didn’t indoor come first? I guess I need to think of it the way I do volleyball. To somebody outside the sport, indoor and beach volleyball are the same sport. Many excel at both, but to me, beach is the only REAL volleyball. Indoor is something you do to stay in shape for the beach season if you have to. I have learned to let the people who think that indoor is better live the lie that is their life <g. I guess I can do the same for draft-legal tri fans. Tom I disagree.  Its not a poor example, its an alternative style of triathlon. One which some people like and enjoy.  It requires different tactics and a different style of racing.  Some people enjoy this style, just as some people like IM to the total exclusion of all else. Personally I’m getting a little sick of the bagging of draft legal triathlons. If you don’t like it don’t race in them. But for Gods sake stop whinging about it. Surely you’ve got better things to do with your time. AJ Most triathlons prohibit drafting on the bike leg.  The Olympic triathlon was a poor example of triathlon.

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Better change would be to eliminate drafting.  The swim has historically come first because of safety concerns. It is easier to keep an eye on everyone when they all start at the same time. The swim is the most dangerous of the 3 events and has the greatest impact on insurance preimums. Hope that clears things up for you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not change the order to cycle/swim/run?

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Most triathlons prohibit drafting on the bike leg.  The Olympic triathlon was a poor example of triathlon. I disagree.  Its not a poor example,

Yes it is a poor example.  Better than 99% of us Triathletes compete in non-drafting races, the olympic triathlon is a rare breed.  Kind of like if a person had only seen 1 bike race and it was Track pursuit(sp) and thought this is what all cycling was about.  An intertesting sport but not a great example of Cycling in general. its an alternative style of triathlon.   One which some people like and enjoy.  It requires different tactics and a different style of racing.  Some people enjoy this style, just as some people like IM to the total exclusion of all else.

"an alternative style of triathlon" is a good way to describe it.  Nothing wrong with it except that it sponges off of Triathlon in general and keeps real Triathlon from being a olympic event which is a great shame IMO. Personally I’m getting a little sick of the bagging of draft legal triathlons.

Yes the subject is getting to be a little tired but since the olympic race just finished it’s understandable that it has resurfaced with a vengence. Personally I’m getting alot sick of people justifying the inclusion of triathlon into the olympics in its current format,  I’ve noticed many of the big supporters of this format have interesting motives for their opinions, such as significant others who race the format, financialinterest ect… If you don’t like it don’t race in them.  

I won’t and yet the races still effect me directely.  The above mentioned "sponging" issue,  new racers who feel free to draft because they saw it in the olmpics are just are just 2 ways how this is true. But for Gods sake stop whinging about it. Surely you’ve got better things to do with your time. AJ

I’m sure God is on my side on this issue. (joke).   However if me and the previous poster are whining just what is it you are doing?  I can almost hear your screech "But for Gods sake…" As far as the origanal question posted I believe swim/ride/run is the format due mostly to safety reasons,  though it seems(to me) that in a draft-legal race a alternative to this order would be a very good idea tim(dogspot1) buaidh no bas

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I guess I need to think of it the way I do volleyball. To somebody outside the sport, indoor and beach volleyball are the same sport. Many excel at both, but to me, beach is the only REAL volleyball. Indoor is something you do to stay in shape for the beach season if you have to. I have learned to let the people who think that indoor is better live the lie that is their life <g. I guess I can do the same for draft-legal tri fans. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I disagree.  Its not a poor example, its an alternative style of triathlon. One which some people like and enjoy.  It requires different tactics and a different style of racing.  Some people enjoy this style, just as some people like IM to the total exclusion of all else. Personally I’m getting a little sick of the bagging of draft legal triathlons. If you don’t like it don’t race in them. But for Gods sake stop whinging about it. Surely you’ve got better things to do with your time. AJ Most triathlons prohibit drafting on the bike leg.  The Olympic triathlon was a poor example of triathlon.

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Didn’t indoor come first?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I need to think of it the way I do volleyball. To somebody outside the sport, indoor and beach volleyball are the same sport. Many excel at both, but to me, beach is the only REAL volleyball. Indoor is something you do to stay in shape for the beach season if you have to. I have learned to let the people who think that indoor is better live the lie that is their life <g. I guess I can do the same for draft-legal tri fans. Tom I disagree.  Its not a poor example, its an alternative style of triathlon. One which some people like and enjoy.  It requires different tactics and a different style of racing.  Some people enjoy this style, just as some people like IM to the total exclusion of all else. Personally I’m getting a little sick of the bagging of draft legal triathlons. If you don’t like it don’t race in them. But for Gods sake stop whinging about it. Surely you’ve got better things to do with your time. AJ Most triathlons prohibit drafting on the bike leg.  The Olympic triathlon was a poor example of triathlon.

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I disagree.  Its not a poor example, its an alternative style of triathlon.   One which some people like and enjoy.  It requires different tactics and a different style of racing.  Some people enjoy this style, just as some people like IM to the total exclusion of all else. Personally I’m getting a little sick of the bagging of draft legal triathlons.   If you don’t like it don’t race in them.   But for Gods sake stop whinging about it. Surely you’ve got better things to do with your time. AJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Most triathlons prohibit drafting on the bike leg.  The Olympic triathlon was a poor example of triathlon.

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Aside from the fact that most real triathlons don’t allow drafting, the thermal shock of jumping into cold water after a hard ride and the possible cramping would be reason enough. However, can you imagine how hard it is to pull a wetsuit over a sweaty body? Phil

| Hi triathletes/fans.. | | I’ve watched a few on TV, but never really paid much attention till I stayed | up late to watch the Olympic triathlon. One thought struck me – | Having watched loads of Tour de France etc, it’s clear that a pack of | cyclists can always reel in a solo/small group breakaway if they want to. | Doesn’t this devalue the triathlon swim somewhat? A great swimmer might take | a 30-second lead, but would have little or no hope of keeping it during the | ride. | Why not change the order to cycle/swim/run? | It would make the first transition a lot of fun, but I reckon it would make | the swim as significant as it deserves to be. | | Cheers | | Glenn | | |

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    I gotta ask…how many of you have actually attended an ITU triathlon race and watched it up close?  It’s actually kind of interesting to see the difference vs. non-draft races.  My first was the the ITU Toronto World Cup race which I thoroughly enjoyed (…and I remember Rob Roller, Julie Leach, and Kurt Madden, etc.). Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi triathletes/fans.. I’ve watched a few on TV, but never really paid much attention till I stayed up late to watch the Olympic triathlon. One thought struck me – Having watched loads of Tour de France etc, it’s clear that a pack of cyclists can always reel in a solo/small group breakaway if they want to. Doesn’t this devalue the triathlon swim somewhat? A great swimmer might take a 30-second lead, but would have little or no hope of keeping it during the ride. In REAL triathlons there are no packs – drafting is not allowed.  What you saw was the made-for-TV version.  The IOC thinks you are too stupid to understand the time penalties involved in anti-drafting enforcement.

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Most triathlons prohibit drafting on the bike leg.  The Olympic triathlon was a poor example of triathlon.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi triathletes/fans.. I’ve watched a few on TV, but never really paid much attention till I stayed up late to watch the Olympic triathlon. One thought struck me – Having watched loads of Tour de France etc, it’s clear that a pack of cyclists can always reel in a solo/small group breakaway if they want to. Doesn’t this devalue the triathlon swim somewhat? A great swimmer might take a 30-second lead, but would have little or no hope of keeping it during the ride. Why not change the order to cycle/swim/run? It would make the first transition a lot of fun, but I reckon it would make the swim as significant as it deserves to be. Cheers Glenn

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Hi triathletes/fans.. I’ve watched a few on TV, but never really paid much attention till I stayed up late to watch the Olympic triathlon. One thought struck me – Having watched loads of Tour de France etc, it’s clear that a pack of cyclists can always reel in a solo/small group breakaway if they want to. Doesn’t this devalue the triathlon swim somewhat? A great swimmer might take a 30-second lead, but would have little or no hope of keeping it during the ride. Why not change the order to cycle/swim/run? It would make the first transition a lot of fun, but I reckon it would make the swim as significant as it deserves to be. Cheers Glenn

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Hi triathletes/fans.. I’ve watched a few on TV, but never really paid much attention till I stayed up late to watch the Olympic triathlon. One thought struck me – Having watched loads of Tour de France etc, it’s clear that a pack of cyclists can always reel in a solo/small group breakaway if they want to. Doesn’t this devalue the triathlon swim somewhat? A great swimmer might take a 30-second lead, but would have little or no hope of keeping it during the ride.

In REAL triathlons there are no packs – drafting is not allowed.  What you saw was the made-for-TV version.  The IOC thinks you are too stupid to understand the time penalties involved in anti-drafting enforcement.

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Question:

The Triathlete Magazine reviewed the bike two issues ago. They ended up concluding (and I paraphrase) that the price is right, the bike is decent but if you’re serious about racing you may want to buy a set of racing wheels

Reviewing bicycles–with all the subjectivity required for an individual to make the right bike choice–must be a very daunting task. That being said, Dave Bittenbender’s bike reviews in Triathlete Mag are among the VERY WORST I’ve ever seen.  I get no sense that he knows anything more about bikes than what is written in marketing brochures.  They’re horrible. For instance, in the Aloha review something abot aluminum being an inherantly stiff material.  Not true.  And Rick Denney made very clear that this was not the case in an earlier Triathlete article. Oversized tubing makes many aluminum frames stiff, not the aluminum itself… Anyway, sorry to vent, but be very, very wary of the advice giving in reviews. Particularly Triathlete Mag reviews. -Kevin Munday

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I’ve been riding mine for the past two years and really like it. I’d say go for it, but do be sure you get the correct size. The top tube is not so short like it is on some steep angle bikes. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone riden the Fuji Aloha and care to give any feedback?  It looks like a decent bike for the price.

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I would encourage you to weigh Dan’s (Slowtwitch.com) opinion over that of Dave Bittenbender (Triathlete magazine).  While I’m sure Dave means well, his reviews are usually grounded in manufacturer hype and old roadie myths, rather than being based on how the bike actually rides and performs. As Dave should know, aerodynamics are more important than weight in 90% of triathlons.  To discard heavy aero wheels in favor of plain light wheels would be counterproductive.  To get both light and aero wheels you have to spend a bundle, which would not be in keeping with the Fuji’s budget philosophy.  Who buys a $1300 bike and then turns around and buys $900 race wheels? I know Dave has reviewed bikes with nearly identical wheelsets in the past and not commented upon excessive weight, at least not to the degree that he did in the Fuji review. The Fuji is a great entry level bike, one of the cheapest true tri bikes on the market.  The only real compromises are the aluminum fork, which can be easily switched to carbon for ~$150, and the lack of optional 700c wheel.  It has durable (if not lightweight) components, a 7000 series frame, a nice paint job, and it comes with pedals. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Triathlete Magazine reviewed the bike two issues ago. They ended up concluding (and I paraphrase) that the price is right, the bike is decent but if you’re serious about racing you may want to buy a set of racing wheels. Apparently, the Aloha is heavier than more expensive bikes, mostly because of the weight of the wheels themselves. The magazine has a web site but the Aloha review does not seem to be posted there. Tomas Has anyone riden the Fuji Aloha and care to give any feedback?  It looks like a decent bike for the price. Before you buy.

Before you buy.

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Has anyone riden the Fuji Aloha and care to give any feedback?  It looks like a decent bike for the price.

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I haven’t, but Slowtwitch has: http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/prodreview/tribikes/fuji.html Like most Fujis, it seems like a good value. Make sure it fits you. — Regards, Gene Tolli

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The Triathlete Magazine reviewed the bike two issues ago. They ended up concluding (and I paraphrase) that the price is right, the bike is decent but if you’re serious about racing you may want to buy a set of racing wheels. Apparently, the Aloha is heavier than more expensive bikes, mostly because of the weight of the wheels themselves. The magazine has a web site but the Aloha review does not seem to be posted there. Tomas Has anyone riden the Fuji Aloha and care to give any feedback?  It looks like a decent bike for the price.

Before you buy.

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Question:

Personally, I think it is an error not to incorporate bricks.  Aside from my long rides, they are the most important workout I do.  I am a relatively week cyclist but a good runner. I think someone posted the TNO board about this and they acknowledged that this is a bit of an oversight.  Still, it is an online resource for people. Personally, I prefer the Tri Training Bible. Cheers, gordo

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this is my first season doing triathlons and everybody recomended the trinewbies page for my trainings. i also had a lot of advice in the importance of brick workouts. is their a reason why the trinewbie trainings don’t incorporate brick workouts? thanks albert – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that you might find some ideas on http://www.trinewbies.com You could also get yourself a book on tri training.  My personal favourite is the Triathlete’s Training Bible by Friel. gordo

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Hello, does anyone have a training schedule for 1/2 ironman preparation? thanks! — Todd G.

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I think that you might find some ideas on http://www.trinewbies.com You could also get yourself a book on tri training.  My personal favourite is the Triathlete’s Training Bible by Friel. gordo

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Question:

if anyone would have any aditional info on how i could become sponsored by a major company to either strictly run or do a triathlon please inform me soon..im serious about this..i have no limits im 21 years old and im coming into my prime the next 10 yrs of my running career..thanks matt

Go out and win some races, the sponsors willl find you.

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Run fast, they’ll find you.

if anyone would have any aditional info on how i could become sponsored by a major company to either strictly run or do a triathlon please inform me soon..im serious about this..i have no limits im 21 years old and im coming into my prime the next 10 yrs of my running career..thanks matt

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if anyone would have any aditional info on how i could become sponsored by a major company to either strictly run or do a triathlon please inform me soon..im serious about this..i have no limits im 21 years old and im coming into my prime the next 10 yrs of my running career..thanks matt

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Rocking cool….glad you got your shot!

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Tricia Richter writes: It’s true.  I’m going.

Congratulations. Hum, interesting.  Canada and Hawaii??  Awesome. Good luck. Bob Williams

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I’m looking forward to reading the mother of all race reports…. — MB. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh dear.  Oh my.  Oh goodness.  Oh my god. It’s true.  I’m going. I’m going to be sick…. Kona-bound—- Tri-Baby                                     _                                  -    o     ‘             –  __o       –    </_ `     ‘         –    <         – __/   /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie

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congrats break a leg

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Mega Congrats!!  We all live at the foot of the mountain but very few of us ever get to the mountain top.  I will be waiting for tales of pain and glory.   P.S. Thanks for keeping Princess Carla company on the bike at Wildflower. Gary McMurtrey Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

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Tri-Baby, we are counting on you to make a face at the NBC camera. Grab the lens, point it at yourself, and say, "I’m an age-grouper, and I’m having a blast!" If the cameraman resists, well, you know what to do. I will watch the coverage with a bit more interest this year. Have enough fun for all of us. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh dear.  Oh my.  Oh goodness.  Oh my god. It’s true.  I’m going. I’m going to be sick…. Kona-bound—- Tri-Baby                                     _                                  -    o     ‘             –  __o       –    </_ `     ‘         –    <         – __/   /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

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Hurray! It couldn’t happen to a more deserving age-grouper. I’m ever so pleased for you Tricia – you took the chance and you won. Better start clearing some disk space for the reports! Joel (ever so envious – some of us will never get the chance, sigh – has anyone ever taken US nationality just so they can enter the lottery?) — Joel Sylvester Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/edin_tri

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Oh dear.  Oh my.  Oh goodness.  Oh my god. It’s true.  I’m going. I’m going to be sick…. Kona-bound—-

Congratulations. Now you’re in the shit! Tri-Baby

regards adrian

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Oh dear.  Oh my.  Oh goodness.  Oh my god. It’s true.  I’m going. I’m going to be sick…. Kona-bound—- Tri-Baby

Congrats, Tricia! Looks like your Post Office moles and secret agents came through for ya.  <g Have a great time. Mike "TriBop" Tennent http://www.gate.net/~wbrunner/ WebRunner Running My Model Railroad ‘98 Ironman Canada IronVirgins Site

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Good luck, here’s your chance! Rich F.

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Just wanted to add my congratulations. I’ve been an RST’er for less than a month, but I’ve already learned a lot from you – a few practical tips, but mainly a greater appreciation for the spirit of the sport. Go get ‘em! Bob Leckron

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CONGRADULATIONS!!!!! Wonderful! I’m sooo jealous. Does this mean that we won’t be seeing you at the Peach for the RST pre-IMC swim? Best wishes to you and all the other RSTers who got in for safe training for the next few months. Sinerely, Laura Dickinson Lee (IMC ‘97, ‘98 and dying to get to the big dance someday) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh dear.  Oh my.  Oh goodness.  Oh my god. It’s true.  I’m going. I’m going to be sick…. Kona-bound—- Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie

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Congrats Tricia on your award. Kona bound!!! Question is, are you going to risk stretching yourself thin doing both IMC and IMH, or will you drop Penticton this year? I’m jealous…but that will be another thread.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   ‘98 IMC, GCT, BSLT IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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There is no one I can think of that will both get more out of Kona, and give back as a result of being there, than Tricia. Congratulations to you TB for your incredible good fortune, and congrats to us, for the all the fun we’re going to have sharing it with you! Brian Sullivan

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Not to worry, Tricia, about doing IMC and IMH.  Bill Bell, in his seventies and Madonna Buder, 67, did both and then went on to stellar performances at World’s championships in Australia.  So there shouldn’t really be any problem for a strapping young Tri-Baby.  All the qualifiers from IMC of course do it too.  You’ll enjoy both, I’m sure. Ruth Kazez

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Oh dear.  Oh my.  Oh goodness.  Oh my god. It’s true.  I’m going. I’m going to be sick…. Kona-bound—- Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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(Tricia Richter) It’s true.  I’m going. I’m going to be sick.

Not as sick as me!!   My name musta got stuck in the bottom of the barrel. Good Luck T-B. Dan Herrema

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To quote Homer Simpson, "Woo hoo!"  And then some.  Way to go! Mike in DC

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Just think of the hours of training, the streching exercises, the hydration….  and that only for the training and race reports!!!! Seriously congrats on your selection!  I was excited when AJ implied that you were going!  The way I look at it is if your coverage of Ironman Canada is any indication, your reports will let us all take part in the big dance! Good luck in Kona!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh dear.  Oh my.  Oh goodness.  Oh my god. It’s true.  I’m going. I’m going to be sick…. Kona-bound—- Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh dear.  Oh my.  Oh goodness.  Oh my god. It’s true.  I’m going. I’m going to be sick…. Kona-bound—- Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie

  You know the old saw about be careful what you wish for……now you have to prepare for some severe punishment, and thats just from some RSTers, and for the greatest and most memorable experience of your life. See ya there kiddo Cheers, Bernie Sher

Response:

Question:

As an ex-cyclist who’s had the extreme displeasure of being trounced in a 40k time trial by Armstrong years ago, I’d like to maybe shed a little light. Armstrong left triathlon because at the time sponsorship was tenuous at very best-I remember him leaving the sport and he was very specific about his reasons: a world class cyclist can actually make a living at his sport. As for the speculation as to how Armstrong would fare in a "thicker" talent pool, keep in mind this guy’s VO2 max is one of the highest ever seen in Colorado Springs. Add in the intangibles such as a brutally competitive nature and the fact that Armstrong was a legitimate phenom in triathalon and I’d have to guess that he’d fare just fine. Just an opinion, though.

Response:

Sorry, Steve, Lance Armstrong was NEVER slow at anything.  He was an amazing triathlete when he started in this sport (beating well- established pros when he was only a teenager).

Alison To say that Lance was never slow at anything is untrue. He indeed won a few short races with giant leads but clearly was a very ordinary runner. I suspect he would have difficulty now after years of mega bike miles to get a good run back.

Response:

Sorry, Steve, Lance Armstrong was NEVER slow at anything.  He was an amazing triathlete when he started in this sport (beating well- established pros when he was only a teenager). Alison To say that Lance was never slow at anything is untrue. He indeed won a few short races with giant leads but clearly was a very ordinary runner. I suspect he would have difficulty now after years of mega bike miles to get a good run back.

Years and years of cycling at that level may not be the best thing for running development. I was speaking to one of Armstrong’s former team-mates on the defunked Motorola team, Steve Bauer(no slouch in the saddle himself) last fall at a press conference and he related a recent running experience of his to me. He was the first man to ride in one of these 24 hour MTB relay races last summer. They start these races "Le Mons style" with a 300 meter run to the bikes   Bauer, the one time wearer of the Tour de France Yellow Jersey, told me that, that 300 meter run was one of the toughest things he had ever done! Steve Fleck

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Furthermore, Overend is no triathlon newbie.  I recall reading something recently that said he competed in Kona a few years back. Stacy Hills Reston, VA

Well, that was in the early 80’s, I think 15+ years to be out of the sport is a fairly long time. Mark Tri-Man Linenberg                                                                            o                       __o            </_                       <           __/    /o_           (()) (())           /

Response:

Years and years of cycling at that level may not be the best thing for running

You might want to take a look at Ned Overend, over 40 biker running with the likes of the tri pros in the X-Terra series. Now thinking of tris too. Doesn’t look like cycling made him slow. Ken

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If Armstrong decides to take up the triathlon again- He will be able to run at least as fast as he ever did. Without question. Its just a matter of how fast a natural runner he is. All of the relevant physiological, biomechanical, biochemical, and physical systems will readapt to the running   Dr. Speed

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| Years and years of cycling at that level may not be the best thing for | running | | You might want to take a look at Ned Overend, over 40 biker running with the | likes of the tri pros in the X-Terra series. Now thinking of tris too. | Doesn’t look like cycling made him slow. | | |Ken, | |Notice that I said, "MAY not be the best thing" and of course you cut out the   |Steve Bauer anecdote that I added. With respect to Overend, I recall that he was |a runner before he got into mountain biking and because running is sometimes |part of an MTB race, I also recall that Overend ran regularly even when he was |one of the top MTB riders in the world. Therefore, I am not surprised at his |impressive running performance in races such as X-Terra.  An Overend-Bauer |comparison would lead one to believe that: … Furthermore, Overend is no triathlon newbie.  I recall reading something recently that said he competed in Kona a few years back. Stacy Hills Reston, VA

Response:

That being said, I wish to take nothing away from Armstrong. He is an extraordinary athlete and one of the great cyclists of his age. I am sure that he is up for the task and it will be very interesting to see how his world class cycling skills/fitness transfer over(back, for him) to triathlon. Maybe Armstrong will have that massive lead going into the run at IMH that he needs to win. Fellow Pro cyclist Jon Hall did it at the World Duathlon Championships last year, but that was only 5K. Armstrong would have to hold on for another 37K of running. Very interesting. Go Lance!

Another intresting person to see doing IMH would be Shorter.  InsideTri reported last month that he was thinking of doing IMH and that he felt that he would still be able to run a 2:50 at IMH. Steve Fleck

Matt — — http://www.personal.psu.edu/mcb205/ <- Homepage http://www.personal.psu.edu/mcb205/triinfo.html <- Tri Page

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ve heard thru the grapevine that Lance Armstrong will be at the season opening St. Anthony’s tri attempting to qaulify for the Haw. Ironman. Though he was offered a spot he refuses to use his celebrity status to compete. He prefers to qaulify as the rest of us must, His cycling team usps is allowing him to compete..and will be doing a commercial blitz using him… something about the postal service delivers thru rain, sleet or snow…. or the hellish enviroment of the ironman…… If this is true, and one has to use the word "if" due to the proximity of Apirl 1st, it would indeed be interesting to see how Armstrong would fair in a short and long triathlon. It must be noted that, however you look at it, short or long, drafting or no drafting, triathlon is a runners game. Races are won/lost on the run. Now as I recall, Armstrong, as a triathlete, fell into the strong swimmer-cyclist, "slow" runner mode. He did well with this strategy back in the 80’s, when you could do well in triathlons by being super strong in one or two sports and comparetivly weak in the third. This is NOT the case today, particularly in Armstrong’s case at the Ironman distance where weak runners are vulnerable. Looking at the top triathletes today, you must be very strong and balanced in all three sports with an emphasis on fast running at the end. Remember that at Ironman Hawaii these days, just to get in the top ten you have to run close to a 2:50 marathon or faster, or have a MASSIVE lead going into the run. It should be noted that in the men’s race the big-lead-going-into-the-run game plan has rarely worked at IMH in recent years That being said, I wish to take nothing away from Armstrong. He is an extraordinary athlete and one of the great cyclists of his age. I am sure that he is up for the task and it will be very interesting to see how his world class cycling skills/fitness transfer over(back, for him) to triathlon. Maybe Armstrong will have that massive lead going into the run at IMH that he needs to win. Fellow Pro cyclist Jon Hall did it at the World Duathlon Championships last year, but that was only 5K. Armstrong would have to hold on for another 37K of running. Very interesting. Go Lance! Steve Fleck

Sorry, Steve, Lance Armstrong was NEVER slow at anything.  He was an amazing triathlete when he started in this sport (beating well- established pros when he was only a teenager). IF Lance ever decided to return to triathlon (I think the St. Anthony’s/ IMH thread was a joke), I believe he would change the sport, as the Germans & Van Lierde have changed it over the past couple of years. IMHO, Lance coming back to triathlon would be the coolest thing in this sport in years.  Too bad its unrealistic. Alison Keple Mill Bay, BC

Response:

MAYBE HE JUST WANT TO PARTICIPATE!

Response:

| | Sorry, Steve, Lance Armstrong was NEVER slow at anything.  He was an | amazing triathlete when he started in this sport (beating well- | established pros when he was only a teenager). | | |Alison, | |I seem to have walked into a real snakes den on this one. | |I did not imply that Armstrong was a slow runner. If you notice my |original post I put quotation marks around the word slow. What was meant, |and perhaps it was not clear, was that Armstrong’s run was slow relative |to his swiming and cycling prowess. Let’s be clear, Armstrong’s "slow" |runs were faster than most, but not as fast as some of the top guys at the |time. Also, the way the top triathletes train now and back in the mid 80’s |is very different. Todays triathlete is much more refined and balanced in |all three sports and if they are the very best, very fast runners. Armstrong |was an extraordinary talent at a time(1985 – 1990) when the talent pool in |triathlon was quite a bit thinner than it is now. I am sure that if he |focussed on tris today that he would do very well, but I believe that he |would have tougher time of it now than ten years ago. Nevertheless, it would |be great to see him give it a go. | Steve: Seems that if you start talking about a cyclist, the normally upbeat, we’re all triathletes so let’s be nice to each other attitude of RST degenerates into the back biting, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about because you’re only a CAT II conflagratory meanness of RBR.  Mark & Alison, nobody said Lance wouldn’t/couldn’t be fast.  Steve just wondered out loud just how fast he might be.  Chill. Obviously, there have been some other successful bike to tri crossovers.  Ned Overend is in his early 40s(?) and has been doing quite well at Xterra lately. Stacy Hills Reston, VA

Response:

i’ve heard thru the grapevine that Lance Armstrong will be at the season opening St. Anthony’s tri attempting to qaulify for the Haw. Ironman. Though he was offered a spot he refuses to use his celebrity status to compete. He prefers to qaulify as the rest of us must, His cycling team usps is allowing him to compete..and will be doing a commercial blitz using him… something about the postal service delivers thru rain, sleet or snow…. or the hellish enviroment of the ironman……

Response:

is this a belated April Fools joke or a serious idea? I read on his website that he dropped out of his last race in Europe because he wasn’t sure he was happy with what he was doing. It would be great to see if it is true. Chuck Heimberg

Response:

i’ve heard thru the grapevine that Lance Armstrong will be at the season opening St. Anthony’s tri attempting to qaulify for the Haw. Ironman. Though he was offered a spot he refuses to use his celebrity status to compete. He prefers to qaulify as the rest of us must, His cycling team usps is allowing him to compete..and will be doing a commercial blitz using him… something about the postal service delivers thru rain, sleet or snow…. or the hellish enviroment of the ironman……

yeah, whatever…I’ll believe that when I read it from something official and not on around Apr 1. Now as I recall, Armstrong, as a triathlete, fell into the strong swimmer-cyclist, "slow" runner mode.

He was never "slow" in anything, he was exceptional in all three sports, he just never reached his run potential due to lack of growth and structured run training.  He won the USA sprint championship in Florida, in 1988/89 I think (second place was Mike Pigg, who was winning EVERYTHING at the time), and his training was almost all cycling (he was on the USA cycling Junior/Senior National Team), with just several weeks of swimming and running. He did well with this strategy back in the 80’s, when you could do well in triathlons by being super strong in one or two sports and comparetivly weak in the third.

Again he was never weak. How do you think that any pro would do today training mainly one sport? This is NOT the case today, particularly in Armstrong’s case at the Ironman distance where weak runners are vulnerable. Looking at the top triathletes today, you must be very strong and balanced in all three sports with an emphasis on fast running at the end. Remember that at Ironman Hawaii these days, just to get in the top ten you have to run close to a 2:50 marathon or faster, or have a MASSIVE lead going into the run. It should be noted that in the men’s race the big-lead-going-into-the-run game plan has rarely worked at IMH in recent years

If Lance was still in his premorbid state, or even now in remission, he quite possibly could have been the best triathlete ever.  I like to think that he could have kicked everyones’ butt. Name another triathlete that has won races overall in a highly competitive field as a teen?  Uh… I’m still waiting for a name… He surely is the best athlete triathlon has seen based on genetic factors like VO2 max, and watt power production/hour. Name another triathlete with higher numbers. Already having the engine, the talent just had to be more fully developed.  He developed his talent through cycling and became the youngest world cycling champion ever and has been a multi-stage winner of the Tour de France.  BTW, I’ve read in numerous interviews, that Armstrong likens his triathlon training and competition like "baby days" as compared to the effort he’s put into pure cycling training.  That makes you wonder, what could have he really been as a mature triathlete.  But, why settle for thousands of dollars, when you have the potential to make millions in another more prestigious worldwide sport? That being said, I wish to take nothing away from Armstrong. He is an extraordinary athlete and one of the great cyclists of his age.

Agreed. I am sure that he is up for the task and it will be very interesting to see how his world class cycling skills/fitness transfer over(back, for him) to triathlon. Maybe Armstrong will have that massive lead going into the run at IMH that he needs to win. Fellow Pro cyclist Jon Hall did it at the World Duathlon Championships last year, but that was only 5K. Armstrong would have to hold on for another 37K of running. Very interesting. Go Lance!

I’d love to see Lance come back to triathlon whenever he retires from cycling.  I’ve read Davis Phinney would like to do a triathlon. Mark Tri-Man Linenberg                                                                            o                       __o            </_                       <           __/    /o_           (()) (())           /

Response:

Sorry, Steve, Lance Armstrong was NEVER slow at anything.  He was an amazing triathlete when he started in this sport (beating well- established pros when he was only a teenager).

Alison, I seem to have walked into a real snakes den on this one. I did not imply that Armstrong was a slow runner. If you notice my original post I put quotation marks around the word slow. What was meant, and perhaps it was not clear, was that Armstrong’s run was slow relative to his swiming and cycling prowess. Let’s be clear, Armstrong’s "slow" runs were faster than most, but not as fast as some of the top guys at the time. Also, the way the top triathletes train now and back in the mid 80’s is very different. Todays triathlete is much more refined and balanced in all three sports and if they are the very best, very fast runners. Armstrong was an extraordinary talent at a time(1985 – 1990) when the talent pool in triathlon was quite a bit thinner than it is now. I am sure that if he focussed on tris today that he would do very well, but I believe that he would have tougher time of it now than ten years ago. Nevertheless, it would be great to see him give it a go. Steve Fleck  

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking all sorts of sugary gels, drinks, energy bars, etc., is rather rough on the teeth.  I am sure other people have that … unpleasant … sensation in their mouths after consuming all of these items.  <snip What do other people do?  Has anyone else had this trouble, or am I one of the unfortunate ones with non-Iron-teeth? I had not experienced any problem with my teeth until Vineman last Saturday.  When I went out to eat afterwards I had extreme sensitivity. I use a prescription flouride gel for sensitivity, and have been brushing regularly, so the condition is improving, but after 4 days it is still noticeable. I had not had a cavity in 12 years, but upon a check-up two weeks ago, one was discovered.  I think Rolf brings up a good point.  I think carrying a tooth brush is a great idea. Todd Kearney Swim, Bike, Run

Todd, I did the Full-Vineman last week, and after 112 miles on that rough surface,  I felt like my teeth practically rattled out of my mouth. But seriously, if you  have a tendency to clench your teeth when you ride, the occlusal trauma may be enough to cause sensitivity in your teeth and/or muscle tightness in your TMJ.  That course is conducive to clenching for sure.  I found my self doing it on some of the rough descents.  It is doubtful that nutrition in 1 race will stimulate this problem, however, I found that Raceday product they were serving up to be rather acidic.  If you have root exposure from periodontal problems, or from over-zealous brushing, that drink could definitely stimulate root sensitivity. So strap that brush in with your sew-up ! Gregg Trent DDS

Response:

i had the exact same thing happen to me a few years back…all those simple sugars gooked onto your teeth is bad news…. it was also attributed to the fact that I was getting up at 3am and eating cuz i was so hungry it woke me up, and then of course went back to bed without brushing…

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -OK, so the subject may be an oxymoron.  And it may seem like a joke.  It is not.   Taking all sorts of sugary gels, drinks, energy bars, etc., is rather rough on the teeth.  I am sure other people have that … unpleasant … sensation in their mouths after consuming all of these items.   I had several cavities in 1995, after having had none for years.  I attribute it to the sugary diet for training and doing IMC 1994 and 1995.   During training this year, I have carried a toothbrush and brush my teeth IMMEDIATELY upon finishing.  I plan to give my teeth a quick brushing between the bike and run, and also upon finishing the event as well.   What do other people do?  Has anyone else had this trouble, or am I one of the unfortunate ones with non-Iron-teeth? Any dentists out there have suggestions as well? -Rolf — Call me IronMac …                        … I tri …                                         … I prefer Macintosh! IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47   IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35    IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00

After years of perfect check-ups I have been plagued with dental problems for the past 6 years.  This is my 9th season as a triathlete but I didn’t start using sports drinks till about 6 years ago. Coincidence? Hmmm…wonder if the makers of sports drinks and gels can start adding flouride to their products?!? -hug

Response:

Taking all sorts of sugary gels, drinks, energy bars, etc., is rather rough on the teeth.  I am sure other people have that … unpleasant … sensation in their mouths after consuming all of these items.  <snip What do other people do?  Has anyone else had this trouble, or am I one of the unfortunate ones with non-Iron-teeth?

I had not experienced any problem with my teeth until Vineman last Saturday.  When I went out to eat afterwards I had extreme sensitivity. I use a prescription flouride gel for sensitivity, and have been brushing regularly, so the condition is improving, but after 4 days it is still noticeable. I had not had a cavity in 12 years, but upon a check-up two weeks ago, one was discovered.  I think Rolf brings up a good point.  I think carrying a tooth brush is a great idea. Todd Kearney Swim, Bike, Run

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Rolf, speaking of Ironman nutrition, you still haven’t revealed the name of the additional digestive enzyme that you employ during an IM aside from good old Beano.  Oh, and when I reported using Beano on a long ride recently, a lot of folks pricked up their ears ’cause they’d never heard of doing that before.  Can you expound further to the group once more on your general IM nutritional plan? Congrats on that fantastic 500-miler!  Whooooweeee! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so the subject may be an oxymoron.  And it may seem like a joke.  It is not. Taking all sorts of sugary gels, drinks, energy bars, etc., is rather rough on the teeth.  I am sure other people have that … unpleasant … sensation in their mouths after consuming all of these items. I had several cavities in 1995, after having had none for years.  I attribute it to the sugary diet for training and doing IMC 1994 and 1995. During training this year, I have carried a toothbrush and brush my teeth IMMEDIATELY upon finishing.  I plan to give my teeth a quick brushing between the bike and run, and also upon finishing the event as well. What do other people do?  Has anyone else had this trouble, or am I one of the unfortunate ones with non-Iron-teeth? Any dentists out there have suggestions as well? -Rolf — Call me IronMac …                         … I tri …                                          … I prefer Macintosh! IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47   IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35    IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00

Being a Dentist, race sponsor and competitive age-grouper for the last 10 years, I have acquired many triathletes as patients and I have found that several have developed decay on a regular basis.  You realize, that bathing your teeth with a constant source of simple sugars during training rides and races, provide a constant source for your bacterial flora in the mouth to produce acids.  The constant acidic environment subjects your teeth to an increase in decay rate.  What I recommend, is to brush your teeth immediately after training when you are drinking the electrolyte replacement drink, eating gels, etc… It is not the quantity of sugar that is the problem, rather the consistent, repetitious consumption throughout the day.  The bacteria will produce acids that take 1-2 hours to neutralize  back to normal levels. Therefore if you are drinking constant throughout the day, the acid level will be higher than the average individual that eats 3 meals a day with a snack or two and drinks plain water. So take a brush with you if you want, or brush right after exercising. I have trained for many Ironmans, and find it necessary to consume the electrolyte/carbo replacement drinks in high levels. I just compensate by brushing 2-4 times more each day. If you still have a decay problem, topical fluorides in prescription strength are available, and will help strengthen the enamel and root surfaces of your teeth.  But mechanical brushing and flossing to remove the source of sugars for the bacteria to produce harmful acids is the key. Gregg Trent DDS

Response:

Ironman nutrition and dental health?

Same story.  I never had cavity #1 until late 20’s.  This past Saturday, i sat through 3 cavity fillings.  Not a good feeling when you race the next day with a jumbo headache!  i may take  your toothbrush advice. thanx.   -Eric E.

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Ironman nutrition and dental health? Hi everybody ! This is really a very serious matter I had planned to discuss with the group this year. For being a dentsit myself and active triathlete I gained some experience with this subject during my IM prep this year. A number of points are of interest: 1) consumption of large amounts of carbohydrates are dangerous for oral health 2) dryness of mouth because of lack of hydration/ salivation / breathing trough the open mouth makes things worse 3) intensive mouth care during an IM or half IM prep is strongly recommended Normally, the saliva carries away large amounts of carbohydrates before they can be consumed by microorganisms. During training, this effect is lost. Most bars and gels are kind of sticky and stay glued on the teeth over a longer period. The germs can consume large quantities and metabolise them into acid that eats away your teeth. Also the germs can proliferate very rapidly because of excellent nutrition, which doesn`t make things better. Result: The teeth can get rapidly decalcified, cavities can appear in a very short amount of time, because there are MANY germs, MANY carbohydrates and VERY LITTLE saliva to carry away carbos and to remineralize the teeth. What can you do ? 1) have your teeth checked regularly (best every 3 months).Small cavities can grow rapidly under training conditions.Have your dentist to make X-rays of the teeth to look for very small cvities, that are hard to detect in a regular check 2) have your teeth professionally cleaned 1 time pre-season and 1 time mid-season 3) ask your dentist for and individual training in mouthcare (VERY important) 4)use fluids containing fluoride to remineralize teeth properly and make them 10 times more resistant against acids 5) care for intensive cleaning of the interdental spaces with special brushes or dental floss 6) try to rinse your mouth with water after consumption of carbos in training and spit it out. This will carry away some of the carbos glued to the teeth. If there are special questions I will try to answer then the best I can.(Yes, this is an offer for a FREE professional consultation) Hope this helps Hannes

Response:

OK, so the subject may be an oxymoron.  And it may seem like a joke.  It is not.   Taking all sorts of sugary gels, drinks, energy bars, etc., is rather rough on the teeth.  I am sure other people have that … unpleasant … sensation in their mouths after consuming all of these items.   I had several cavities in 1995, after having had none for years.  I attribute it to the sugary diet for training and doing IMC 1994 and 1995.   During training this year, I have carried a toothbrush and brush my teeth IMMEDIATELY upon finishing.  I plan to give my teeth a quick brushing between the bike and run, and also upon finishing the event as well.   What do other people do?  Has anyone else had this trouble, or am I one of the unfortunate ones with non-Iron-teeth? Any dentists out there have suggestions as well? -Rolf — Call me IronMac …                         … I tri …                                          … I prefer Macintosh! IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47   IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35    IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00

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Question:

Subject says it. I lost the number to obtain the videos from Ironman properties. Chaz

Response:

Phone # for the World Triathlon Corp (aka Ironman) is 813 942 4767 Randy Pelton – Inside Triathlon

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Question:

Is anyone aware of races in the 10K to 1/2 marathon distance in the Hollywood/Ft. Lauderdale, FL area the week of 12/26 through 12/30?  Thanks…….

Response:

                      FLORIDA RACE CALENDAR Please verify all race information before traveling, as I don’t. Key: R=Run B=Bike S=Swim SK=In Line Skate, W=Race Walk, T&F=Track and Field.  Unlabeled distances are runs.  All distances are miles unless indicated with K (kilometers, 0.621 miles) or m (meters). For phone numbers, D=Day N=Night.  Local races are listed in bold type.  ROY=Runner of the Year series race. WEEKLY TRAINING (Brevard Co. area)                               MON: Rockledge, Track Workouts, 5:15 PM, Rockledge High School, David Maltby, 407-639-6456.                               TUES: Melbourne, Power Walking, 6:15 AM, Meet at Clark’s Gym on Highland Ave, (407) 254-9777.                               WED: Indialantic Track workout with the Hoover’s Movers, 5:30 PM, Hoover Jr. High School, Indialantic. Rockledge, Track Workouts, 5:15 PM, Rockledge High School, David Maltby, 407-639-6456.                              THURS: Fun Runs:  See schedule.  Free, timed and measured course, water available, no awards. Melbourne, Power Walking, 6:15 AM, Meet at Clark’s Gym on Highland Ave, (407) 254-9777.                               SAT: Palm Bay, Bike 10-45 miles, various speeds, 7:30 AM, corner of Malabar and Babcock.                               SUN: Titusville, 6:00 AM, 10-18 at a conversational pace.  Start at Marty Winkel’s house, 4374 Longbow Dr. (407) 269-7247. Indian Harbour Beach, 7:00 AM, 10-20 (8-9 min. pace) with the Pines Plodders.  Meet at the Pines, corner of S. Patrick and Mathers Bridge. Palm Bay Bike 15-28 miles, various speeds, 8:00 AM, corner of Malabar and Babcock. DU/TRIATHLONS Duathlons are run-bike or run-bike-run events.  Triathlons are swim-bike-run events.  Awards are usually in 5 year age groups as in running events.  Entry fees are typically doubled for duathlons, tripled for triathlons. Swim: Usually in open water (lake, river, ocean) over course marked with buoys.  No fins, paddles, or flotation devices.  Goggles are recommended.  Wetsuits are allowed if the water is below 78 degrees.  For wave starts (several groups spaced a few minutes apart), you will be supplied with a color coded swim cap.  Finish clock is for first wave; your time is adjusted.  Your race number is body marked on arms and legs with a black marking pen. Bike: Normally on roads open to traffic with intersections controlled giving right of way to cyclists.  ANSI or Snell approved bicycle helmet is required.  No drafting: you must not follow another bicycle within 7 meters (4 bike lengths) behind and less than 1 meter (3 ft) to one side for more than 15 seconds.  Keep to right; pass on left.  Do not cross center line in road.  Bikes are numbered (on crossbar) and must be placed in the corresponding numbered bike rack during the swim and run. Run: This is the only time you need your paper race number. ORIENTEERING Be the first to reach a series of checkpoints in the woods using a map and compass.  Each event offers several courses ranging in difficulty from 1 to 5 miles, and string-o for the children (1/4 mile marked with string).  Compete as an individual or with family as a group.  Start anytime between 10:30 AM and 1:30 PM unless otherwise indicated.  Entry fees usually $3-5 per group.  For more information, contact the Florida Orienteering Club, Bob and Janet Putnam 407-366-9603 or Frank Kuhn 407-242-9480.  Events are listed in the calendar. HASHING A drinking club with a running problem.  Run, climb, crawl, and wade through 2-5 miles of woods, weeds, and swamp following a trail marked with flour. Snakes, gators, impenetrable jungle, and a maze of dead-end trails will challenge you as you hunt for the hidden beer truck.  No clock, no awards, no winner or losers, but lots of fun.  There are over 80,000 hashers in over 1000 clubs in over 100 countries around the world.  Call the Hasher Hotline, 407-679-0649 for dates and locations for all nearby clubs below. Spaced Coast Hash House Harriers meet about every second Sunday at 2:00 PM, 3-4 mi in Canaveral-Melbourne area, Mike Hance, 407-777- 8127, Hotline, 407-679-0649. Orlando Hash House Harriers, every other Saturday, 3-5 mi, 407-679- 0649. Other Orlando Hash House Harriers, every Saturday, every full moon, 407-678-7810. Orlando Biko Psycho Hash House Harriers, 10-20 mi mountain bike, every other Sunday, Orlando-Melbourne, 407-679-0649. Mosquito County Hash House Harriers, Orlando, every other Monday, 6:30 PM, 2-4 mi, dinner served at finish, 407-679-0649. Daytona Beach Hash House Harriers, 3-5 mi, every other Saturday and Monday, Steve Martin, 904-677-4063. Jacksonville H3, Rick Campos, 904-739-6675. Miami H3, Palm Beach H3, 407-362-0244 x69. Tampa H3, Pete Bonds, 813-996-5933. Gainesville H3, 904-371-HASH. Emerald Coast H3, Ft. Walton Beach, Joe Walker, 904-244-7954. Pensacola, Blue Hare-on H3, Dana Baugh, 904-434-5725. RESOURCES Space Coast Runners, club and newsletter, runner of the year series, Brevard Co., $15.00/year, $20.00/year family membership, PO Box 2407, Melbourne FL 32902-2407. Florida Running & Triathlon, $12.00/year (U.S., 6 issues), Florida Running, Inc., 8640 Tansy Dr., Orlando FL 32819-4529. Race Place, (running and multi-sport for Tampa and central Florida), $14.00/year (6 issues), PO Box 152978, Tampa FL 33684- 2978. Running Journal (covers southeastern U.S.), $22.00/year, $39.00/2 years, $49.00/3 years, monthly, PO Box 157, Greeneville TN 37744, 615-638-4177, Fax 615-638-3328. Ultrarunning, $25.00/year (U.S., 10 issues), 300 N. Main St. PO Box 481, Sunderland MA 01375, 413-665-7573. Inside Triathlon, $19.95/year (U.S., 10 issues), PO Box 90555C, Collingswood NJ 08108-9939. Track Shack, sponsors most runs in the Orlando area, 407-896-5473, 407-896-1160. CFT/Sommer Sports, sponsors several triathlons in Clermont area, 904-394-1320. Alta Vista (John Boyle), sponsors several runs and multi-sport events in the Deland area, 904-736-0002. Exclusive Sports Marketing, sponsors a 5K, skate, and triathlon series throughout Florida, 407-394-1320. CALENDAR                            DEC 26 1993 Cocoa Beach, 50K, Worlds longest beach run, SCR Annual 50K, certified, 9:30 AM, SASE to Chris Frank, 114 Central Rd. Indian Harbour Beach FL 32937, 407-779-2684. Ormond Beach, 5K, 1, Sandpiper 5K, 904-673-3817, 672-8712. CLearwater, 10K, 5K, W2, 1, Say No to Drugs Holiday Classic, 813- 462-9094.                              DEC 31 Melbourne Beach, 5, SCR Annual New Years Eve Midnight Run, CANCELLED. Orlando, 5K, MADD Dash to ‘94, 904-394-1320, 407-332-3040. Jacksonville, 5, Last Gasp 5 mile, XC, 904-725-9808.                            JAN 1 1994 Salisbury NC, 50, 50K, Fat Ass 50, no fee, aid, awards, or wimps. 704-265-4847.                               JAN 2 DeLand, R3-B14-R1, Winter Warmup Duathlon, 8:00 AM, Airport, 904- 736-0002.                               JAN 6 Palm Bay 5K 6:30 PM fun run, free, Palm Bay Community Center on Port Malabar Rd, 1 mi. east of Babcock St.  Bill Dillard, 407-724- 2510.                               JAN 8 Cocoa, CANCELLED: 13.1, River’s Edge Half Marathon. Wekiva Springs State Park, 5K, The "Real" Florida 5K Cross Country, 407-884-2009. Navarre Beach, 13.1, 10K, 5K, W5K, 12th Annual Navarre Beach Run, 904-477-0250 N, 939-2321. Charlotte NC, 26.2, 10K, 5K, Charlotte Observer Marathon, 704-358- KICK. Salisbury NC, 50, 50K, Fat Ass 50, no fee, aid, awards, or wimps, 704-265-4847.                               JAN 9 DeLeon Springs, 13.1, 5K, DeLeon Springs Half Marathon, 8:00 AM, DeLeon Springs State Park, 904-736-0002. Gainesville, 15K, 2M, 904-332-0770. Miami, 5, Jungle Jog, 305-227-1500.                              JAN 13 Melbourne Beach 1, 5, 6:30 PM, fun run, free, Spessard Holland Community Bldg. across from golf course on Oak St. near A1A.  Don Dore, 407-773-6619.                              JAN 15 Paisley (Ocala NF), Orienteering, 407-365-7364, 898-6335. Saginaw MN, 26.2, Beargrease Snowshoe Marathon, 218-729-5247.                              JAN 16 Orlando, 26.2, Walt Disney World Marathon, race is full, 407-896- 1160. St. Petersburg, 3, W1, 7:30 PM, Jingle Bell Run, 813-821-4819. Houston TX, 26.2, Tenneco Marathon, 713-864-9305.                              JAN 17 Miami, 5K, Martin Luther King Day 5K, 305-651-5332.                              JAN 20 Cocoa Beach 3, 5:30 PM, fun run, free, Murshke Park, A1A and S. 16′th St. on the beach.  John Chioma, 407-784-3198.                              JAN 22 Miami, 1, 5K, Miami Mile, 305-759-5990. Coconut Creek, W5, Southern Regional 5K Racewalk, 407-499-3370. Tallahassee, 30K, Gulf Winds Track Club 30K, 904-421-0469 N. New Orleans, 26.2, 13.1, 5K, Mardi Gras Marathon, 504-482-6682, 468-1488.                              JAN 23 DeLeon Springs, R2.5-B16-R2.5, Discover DeLeon Springs, DeLeon Springs State Park, 8:00 AM, 904-736-0002. Lakeland, R2-B14-R2, Winter Duathlon #1, 904-394-1320. Boca Raton, 5K, Med-A-Thon 5K, 407-362-5069. San Diego, 26.2, 619-929-0909.                              JAN 27 Palm Bay 10K 6:30 PM fun run, free, Palm Bay Community Center on Port Malabar Rd, 1 mi. east of Babcock St.  Bill Dillard, 407-724- 2510.                              JAN 29 Melbourne, 4, Winterfest, BCC at Wickham & Post Rd., 8:00 AM, $8/10, Eric Ponce, 407-724-1113. Winter Park, FCA 5K, 407-896-5473. St. Augustine, 5K, Matanzas 5000, 904-797-4251. Phoenix AZ, 100, 50, Bloody Basin, very hilly dirt roads 3000-5000 ft, no aid, crew required, 4WD vehicle preferred, 602-996-8739 N. Kathmandu Nepal, 26.2, 301-320-3663.                              JAN 30 Orange City, 5K, B25, B50, B100, Manatee Bike Rally and 5K run, 904-736-0002. Naples, 13.1, W2, 813-262-5653.                               FEB 3 Melbourne Beach 1, 5, 6:30 PM, fun run, free, Spessard Holland Community Bldg. across from golf course on Oak St. near A1A.  Don Dore, 407-773-6619.

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