Question:

Hi, Could anyone give me some general information on triathlons, and trainning for them. I am completely new to the sport, but not to hard training, having reached an international level in Boxing. Hopefully I will get to compete in my first race in Australia, so I was hoping someone from out there in Sydney might be able to let me know of any good training facitlities. Thankyou in advance for any feed back you may have, Sam.

Response:

Check www.TriNewbies.com for some excellent training plans. also ceck out the Clubs listing at my site for clubs in your area. http://www.aussietri.com/clubs.html Feel free to email  if you have questions — Kindest Regards Lee Vickary (aka Namsul Melek) http://www.aussietri.com/                        __o         O  /o__           -<,         /// ^^^^^^^    ( ) / ( )       /                                   …./ PS: Your name isn’t Mark Jenssen is it. He’s a guy(legend) who taught me boxing……

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Could anyone give me some general information on triathlons, and trainning for them. I am completely new to the sport, but not to hard training, having reached an international level in Boxing. Hopefully I will get to compete in my first race in Australia, so I was hoping someone from out there in Sydney might be able to let me know of any good training facitlities. Thankyou in advance for any feed back you may have, Sam.

Response:

Question:

Sam, thanks for your response! It’s a seriously interesting discussion!! When plugging my numbers into your formula below, I get about 60.6 ml/kg/min (running pace: about 3:30 per km, ie. flat out for me). 60.6 may be more realistic for me, because I am no where near the top athletes (yet?) but am still very fit for me. Perhaps, as you suggested at the end, altitude does play a part in the S710 VO2max calculation. (I live at 1500m, ie. quite high). By the way, having clocked 70 ml/kg/min on the treadmill, what is your Polar VO2 max reading?

        That 70 was several years ago when I was 6 years younger, much more active and weighed 15 pounds less than I do now, and at 300m (BTW, I live at 1860m so I gotcha beat there!).   I hope to do a VO2max test next week to verify a couple of things (I have not done one in a while).  I plan to do the Polar test the same morning. Well, best I start working on the other things like economy, lactate threshold, etc. (Some better genes would have been useful too!!)

        I keep a close eye on the genetics advances to see what I can get. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers, Barry. Ben (a response) sends you to an excellent website. First, I am not confident of Polar’s ability to measure VO2max while you are sitting.  I have read some of the papers Polar puts forth to support its fitness test and am still not convinced (it takes me a while).  Any formula (even those derived from field tests) make assumptions that might not be true about you.  For me, I would at least do a simple field test if you are up to it.  This takes advantage of Veronique Billat’s 6 minute run test. Run as far as you can in 6 minutes, preferably on a track.  Convert the distance covered to an average pace (X meters/6 min).  Using the ACSM formula (which probably overestimates VO2max in very fit people) VO2 =  3.5 + V *0.2,  where V is velocity in m/min. So if you run 1200m in 6 min (200m/min), you get VO2 = 3.5 + (200*0.2) or 43.5 ml/kg/min Again, this formula makes some assumptions as well and was developed from a less fit population, but I found it to be pretty accurate for me (I actually have done many field tests and the tested myself on a metabolic cart). The 6 min run time might underestimate slightly and is dependent on motivation. There might be better formulae and once I get the home office organized I will look for some of the other field tests and formulae to go with them. As far as performance goes, VO2max is an important element since that is the size of the engine and endurance athletes typically have a big, big engine (in that 70 ml/kg/min neighborhood) but it is not the entire story. The pace or power output at VO2max is also important;  not just the speed or power attained at the end of the test but also the minimum speed or power required to elicit VO2max. Another important component in the performance package is economy or how much oxygen it takes to produce a given power or speed.  The trainability here is probably smaller than in other areas.  Steve Prefontaine, while having one of the highest values I have ever seen reported had lousy economy.  It took him more oxygen to run at 6 min/mile pace than any of the other elite males studied at the time. Yet another factor and the most trainable is speed or power at lactate threshold.  This factor is highly predictive of endurance performance and the improvements within a year from beginning a macrocycle to peak can be very large if training is done properly. As for being "maxed" out, one can never really know.  Could you have squeezed out a few more ml’s?  Maybe, maybe not.  The only thing one can do is to train optimally to improve VO2max, economy and LT factors. I have broken 70 ml/kg/min a couple of times on a treadmill test but I never really was able to turn that into anything (I also take standardized tests really well) since my speed at LT was always lower than we thought it should be.  Of course, I did not learn all this until later in life.  So a high VO2max does not mean that you are a superstar waiting to happen. Then there is Derek Clayton who had one of the lowest VO2max readings I have ever seen reported (I swear something had to be wrong with the machinery in that lab), but he had the ability to run at a high % of VO2max and was very economical.  Those had to have helped him (IMHO) become a world class distance runner. I have the Polar S710.  Perhaps if I can get into the lab and get a VO2max test done, I will do a one person validation.  I wonder how living at moderate altitude messes up the Polar algorithm?????? I recently bought a Polar S710 that has a fitness test on it. The fitness test measures your VO2 Max as well as your hypothetical maximum heart rate. I don’t know how it does it, you just sit there for about 5 minutes while it reads your heart rate and then tells you how fit you are when you compare the VO2 Max reading to the table in the Polar instruction manual. Well I did it 3 times on different occasions, twice sitting at my desk and once lying down. I got readings of 69, 71 and 71 again, which means I am pretty darn fit! Looking at the tables, anything over 59 for males aged 25-29 is "Excellent" (45 being about average for males that age).  At first I thought: COOL!!! I’m seriously fit!! (I am fit at the moment: I just broke 3 hours for a marathon last week for only the 2nd time!). But then, thinking about it, it came to me:  What if I can’t get any better? Is this the best and fastest I’ll ever be?  Is there absolutely no chance of going under 2:00 for an Olympic distance triathlon? (My best is 2:08 going flat-out, where I was only 4th in my AG). Can I never be in the ranks of the Elite who are doing times of 1:50 for that distance? So I’ve got a high VO2 Max. So what! What would it take for me to somehow push my VO2 Max up into the 80’s to win AG categories or race with the Elite? Is it possible? Now I’m not getting too hit-up about this train of thought. I still love my triathlons and running and stuff like that.  I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about VO2 Max.  What is the average VO2 Max of Elite triathletes?  Are there any Elite athletes who have a substantially lower VO2 Max and still compete with the best of them?  In that case, not much can be read into the VO2 Max fitness measure, except for the fact that it tells you that you’re fitter than the average couch potato who watches football all day! Big deal!! Any thoughts? Barry.

Response:

Sam, thanks for your response! It’s a seriously interesting discussion!! When plugging my numbers into your formula below, I get about 60.6 ml/kg/min (running pace: about 3:30 per km, ie. flat out for me). 60.6 may be more realistic for me, because I am no where near the top athletes (yet?) but am still very fit for me. Perhaps, as you suggested at the end, altitude does play a part in the S710 VO2max calculation. (I live at 1500m, ie. quite high). By the way, having clocked 70 ml/kg/min on the treadmill, what is your Polar VO2 max reading? Well, best I start working on the other things like economy, lactate threshold, etc. (Some better genes would have been useful too!!) Cheers, Barry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ben (a response) sends you to an excellent website. First, I am not confident of Polar’s ability to measure VO2max while you are sitting.  I have read some of the papers Polar puts forth to support its fitness test and am still not convinced (it takes me a while).  Any formula (even those derived from field tests) make assumptions that might not be true about you.  For me, I would at least do a simple field test if you are up to it.  This takes advantage of Veronique Billat’s 6 minute run test. Run as far as you can in 6 minutes, preferably on a track.  Convert the distance covered to an average pace (X meters/6 min).  Using the ACSM formula (which probably overestimates VO2max in very fit people) VO2 =  3.5 + V *0.2,  where V is velocity in m/min. So if you run 1200m in 6 min (200m/min), you get VO2 = 3.5 + (200*0.2) or 43.5 ml/kg/min Again, this formula makes some assumptions as well and was developed from a less fit population, but I found it to be pretty accurate for me (I actually have done many field tests and the tested myself on a metabolic cart). The 6 min run time might underestimate slightly and is dependent on motivation. There might be better formulae and once I get the home office organized I will look for some of the other field tests and formulae to go with them. As far as performance goes, VO2max is an important element since that is the size of the engine and endurance athletes typically have a big, big engine (in that 70 ml/kg/min neighborhood) but it is not the entire story.  The pace or power output at VO2max is also important;  not just the speed or power attained at the end of the test but also the minimum speed or power required to elicit VO2max. Another important component in the performance package is economy or how much oxygen it takes to produce a given power or speed.  The trainability here is probably smaller than in other areas.  Steve Prefontaine, while having one of the highest values I have ever seen reported had lousy economy.  It took him more oxygen to run at 6 min/mile pace than any of the other elite males studied at the time. Yet another factor and the most trainable is speed or power at lactate threshold.  This factor is highly predictive of endurance performance and the improvements within a year from beginning a macrocycle to peak can be very large if training is done properly. As for being "maxed" out, one can never really know.  Could you have squeezed out a few more ml’s?  Maybe, maybe not.  The only thing one can do is to train optimally to improve VO2max, economy and LT factors. I have broken 70 ml/kg/min a couple of times on a treadmill test but I never really was able to turn that into anything (I also take standardized tests really well) since my speed at LT was always lower than we thought it should be.  Of course, I did not learn all this until later in life.  So a high VO2max does not mean that you are a superstar waiting to happen. Then there is Derek Clayton who had one of the lowest VO2max readings I have ever seen reported (I swear something had to be wrong with the machinery in that lab), but he had the ability to run at a high % of VO2max and was very economical.  Those had to have helped him (IMHO) become a world class distance runner. I have the Polar S710.  Perhaps if I can get into the lab and get a VO2max test done, I will do a one person validation.  I wonder how living at moderate altitude messes up the Polar algorithm?????? I recently bought a Polar S710 that has a fitness test on it. The fitness test measures your VO2 Max as well as your hypothetical maximum heart rate. I don’t know how it does it, you just sit there for about 5 minutes while it reads your heart rate and then tells you how fit you are when you compare the VO2 Max reading to the table in the Polar instruction manual. Well I did it 3 times on different occasions, twice sitting at my desk and once lying down. I got readings of 69, 71 and 71 again, which means I am pretty darn fit! Looking at the tables, anything over 59 for males aged 25-29 is "Excellent" (45 being about average for males that age).  At first I thought: COOL!!! I’m seriously fit!! (I am fit at the moment: I just broke 3 hours for a marathon last week for only the 2nd time!). But then, thinking about it, it came to me:  What if I can’t get any better? Is this the best and fastest I’ll ever be?  Is there absolutely no chance of going under 2:00 for an Olympic distance triathlon? (My best is 2:08 going flat-out, where I was only 4th in my AG). Can I never be in the ranks of the Elite who are doing times of 1:50 for that distance? So I’ve got a high VO2 Max. So what! What would it take for me to somehow push my VO2 Max up into the 80’s to win AG categories or race with the Elite? Is it possible? Now I’m not getting too hit-up about this train of thought. I still love my triathlons and running and stuff like that.  I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about VO2 Max.  What is the average VO2 Max of Elite triathletes?  Are there any Elite athletes who have a substantially lower VO2 Max and still compete with the best of them?  In that case, not much can be read into the VO2 Max fitness measure, except for the fact that it tells you that you’re fitter than the average couch potato who watches football all day! Big deal!! Any thoughts? Barry.

Response:

Ben (a response) sends you to an excellent website. First, I am not confident of Polar’s ability to measure VO2max while you are sitting.  I have read some of the papers Polar puts forth to support its fitness test and am still not convinced (it takes me a while).  Any formula (even those derived from field tests) make assumptions that might not be true about you.  For me, I would at least do a simple field test if you are up to it.  This takes advantage of Veronique Billat’s 6 minute run test. Run as far as you can in 6 minutes, preferably on a track.  Convert the distance covered to an average pace (X meters/6 min).  Using the ACSM formula (which probably overestimates VO2max in very fit people) VO2 =  3.5 + V *0.2,  where V is velocity in m/min. So if you run 1200m in 6 min (200m/min), you get VO2 = 3.5 + (200*0.2) or 43.5 ml/kg/min Again, this formula makes some assumptions as well and was developed from a less fit population, but I found it to be pretty accurate for me (I actually have done many field tests and the tested myself on a metabolic cart).   The 6 min run time might underestimate slightly and is dependent on motivation. There might be better formulae and once I get the home office organized I will look for some of the other field tests and formulae to go with them. As far as performance goes, VO2max is an important element since that is the size of the engine and endurance athletes typically have a big, big engine (in that 70 ml/kg/min neighborhood) but it is not the entire story.  The pace or power output at VO2max is also important;  not just the speed or power attained at the end of the test but also the minimum speed or power required to elicit VO2max. Another important component in the performance package is economy or how much oxygen it takes to produce a given power or speed.  The trainability here is probably smaller than in other areas.  Steve Prefontaine, while having one of the highest values I have ever seen reported had lousy economy.  It took him more oxygen to run at 6 min/mile pace than any of the other elite males studied at the time. Yet another factor and the most trainable is speed or power at lactate threshold.  This factor is highly predictive of endurance performance and the improvements within a year from beginning a macrocycle to peak can be very large if training is done properly. As for being "maxed" out, one can never really know.  Could you have squeezed out a few more ml’s?  Maybe, maybe not.  The only thing one can do is to train optimally to improve VO2max, economy and LT factors. I have broken 70 ml/kg/min a couple of times on a treadmill test but I never really was able to turn that into anything (I also take standardized tests really well) since my speed at LT was always lower than we thought it should be.  Of course, I did not learn all this until later in life.  So a high VO2max does not mean that you are a superstar waiting to happen. Then there is Derek Clayton who had one of the lowest VO2max readings I have ever seen reported (I swear something had to be wrong with the machinery in that lab), but he had the ability to run at a high % of VO2max and was very economical.  Those had to have helped him (IMHO) become a world class distance runner. I have the Polar S710.  Perhaps if I can get into the lab and get a VO2max test done, I will do a one person validation.  I wonder how living at moderate altitude messes up the Polar algorithm??????

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently bought a Polar S710 that has a fitness test on it. The fitness test measures your VO2 Max as well as your hypothetical maximum heart rate. I don’t know how it does it, you just sit there for about 5 minutes while it reads your heart rate and then tells you how fit you are when you compare the VO2 Max reading to the table in the Polar instruction manual. Well I did it 3 times on different occasions, twice sitting at my desk and once lying down. I got readings of 69, 71 and 71 again, which means I am pretty darn fit! Looking at the tables, anything over 59 for males aged 25-29 is "Excellent" (45 being about average for males that age).  At first I thought: COOL!!! I’m seriously fit!! (I am fit at the moment: I just broke 3 hours for a marathon last week for only the 2nd time!). But then, thinking about it, it came to me:  What if I can’t get any better? Is this the best and fastest I’ll ever be?  Is there absolutely no chance of going under 2:00 for an Olympic distance triathlon? (My best is 2:08 going flat-out, where I was only 4th in my AG). Can I never be in the ranks of the Elite who are doing times of 1:50 for that distance? So I’ve got a high VO2 Max. So what! What would it take for me to somehow push my VO2 Max up into the 80’s to win AG categories or race with the Elite? Is it possible? Now I’m not getting too hit-up about this train of thought. I still love my triathlons and running and stuff like that.  I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about VO2 Max.  What is the average VO2 Max of Elite triathletes?  Are there any Elite athletes who have a substantially lower VO2 Max and still compete with the best of them?  In that case, not much can be read into the VO2 Max fitness measure, except for the fact that it tells you that you’re fitter than the average couch potato who watches football all day! Big deal!! Any thoughts? Barry.

Response:

try this web site for some good info http://home.hia.no/~stephens/ Ben Reuter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently bought a Polar S710 that has a fitness test on it. The fitness test measures your VO2 Max as well as your hypothetical maximum heart rate. I don’t know how it does it, you just sit there for about 5 minutes while it reads your heart rate and then tells you how fit you are when you compare the VO2 Max reading to the table in the Polar instruction manual. Well I did it 3 times on different occasions, twice sitting at my desk and once lying down. I got readings of 69, 71 and 71 again, which means I am pretty darn fit! Looking at the tables, anything over 59 for males aged 25-29 is "Excellent" (45 being about average for males that age).  At first I thought: COOL!!! I’m seriously fit!! (I am fit at the moment: I just broke 3 hours for a marathon last week for only the 2nd time!). But then, thinking about it, it came to me:  What if I can’t get any better? Is this the best and fastest I’ll ever be?  Is there absolutely no chance of going under 2:00 for an Olympic distance triathlon? (My best is 2:08 going flat-out, where I was only 4th in my AG). Can I never be in the ranks of the Elite who are doing times of 1:50 for that distance? So I’ve got a high VO2 Max. So what! What would it take for me to somehow push my VO2 Max up into the 80’s to win AG categories or race with the Elite? Is it possible? Now I’m not getting too hit-up about this train of thought. I still love my triathlons and running and stuff like that.  I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about VO2 Max.  What is the average VO2 Max of Elite triathletes?  Are there any Elite athletes who have a substantially lower VO2 Max and still compete with the best of them?  In that case, not much can be read into the VO2 Max fitness measure, except for the fact that it tells you that you’re fitter than the average couch potato who watches football all day! Big deal!! Any thoughts? Barry.

Response:

I recently bought a Polar S710 that has a fitness test on it. The fitness test measures your VO2 Max as well as your hypothetical maximum heart rate. I don’t know how it does it, you just sit there for about 5 minutes while it reads your heart rate and then tells you how fit you are when you compare the VO2 Max reading to the table in the Polar instruction manual. Well I did it 3 times on different occasions, twice sitting at my desk and once lying down. I got readings of 69, 71 and 71 again, which means I am pretty darn fit! Looking at the tables, anything over 59 for males aged 25-29 is "Excellent" (45 being about average for males that age).  At first I thought: COOL!!! I’m seriously fit!! (I am fit at the moment: I just broke 3 hours for a marathon last week for only the 2nd time!). But then, thinking about it, it came to me:  What if I can’t get any better? Is this the best and fastest I’ll ever be?  Is there absolutely no chance of going under 2:00 for an Olympic distance triathlon? (My best is 2:08 going flat-out, where I was only 4th in my AG). Can I never be in the ranks of the Elite who are doing times of 1:50 for that distance? So I’ve got a high VO2 Max. So what! What would it take for me to somehow push my VO2 Max up into the 80’s to win AG categories or race with the Elite? Is it possible? Now I’m not getting too hit-up about this train of thought. I still love my triathlons and running and stuff like that.  I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about VO2 Max.  What is the average VO2 Max of Elite triathletes?  Are there any Elite athletes who have a substantially lower VO2 Max and still compete with the best of them?  In that case, not much can be read into the VO2 Max fitness measure, except for the fact that it tells you that you’re fitter than the average couch potato who watches football all day! Big deal!! Any thoughts? Barry.

Response:

Question:

I realize this is a bit late, but I’ve been trying for weeks to make contact with someone who would be willing to register me for IM canada 2002 (as my understanding is that each person in line can register themselves and one other person).  Would there be anyone out there who is going to IMC this weekend has not already committed to signing up a second person?  I would be willing to pay you a ’signers fee’ if you would be so kind as to register me as well! Please email me ASAP! Thanks!

Response:

any comments about IMC?  (or has it all been said before?)

Response:

There was no Ironman Canada this year…or so it would seem. No one (practically) in this news group has talked about it. Could not find it on television and apart from the fact that Canadians rocked, it was uneventful. It’s truly sad considering that it is a first class event with fantastic local support and 2000+ participants. By the way, Peter put in a 28mph bike at IMC and if Hawaii isn’t too unfavorable weather wise he’s going to take it again. I only hope Lori’s run is on and I get to see the worlds fittest couple (CANADIANS BTW) on the podium. I feel so giddy I have to go and sing O Canada! Jeff Richardson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – any comments about IMC?  (or has it all been said before?)

Response:

"By the way, Peter put in a 28mph bike at IMC…" Better buy a calculator Jeff!

Response:

According to the finishing info, Peter did a 4:35 bike.   112 miles / 4.5833 hours  ==   24.44 miles per hour. More amazing than that was he won by almost 6 minutes, dispite the fact that he hit the first 6 porta-potties.   Eric Weiss DNFed at mile 20. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"By the way, Peter put in a 28mph bike at IMC…" Better buy a calculator Jeff!

Response:

Uneventfull? You must have been following another race! On the mens side an age grouper was hanging with P. Ried for much of the bike…WOW! On the womens side the lead went through many changes and Tucsons Jeanne Anne Krizman led through the half way point of the run before blowing up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could not find it on television and apart from the fact that Canadians rocked, it was uneventful.

Response:

What’s also incredible is the he ran a 2:57:05  marathon even though he suffered from stomach cramps.  The guy is awesome. BTW, it was another great year at IMC2001. Conditions were great and except for the carpet tacks on the bike course and the mid-afternoon heat you couldn.t have asked for a better day. Armin IMC2001 13:01:38

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – According to the finishing info, Peter did a 4:35 bike. 112 miles / 4.5833 hours  ==   24.44 miles per hour. More amazing than that was he won by almost 6 minutes, dispite the fact that he hit the first 6 porta-potties. Eric Weiss DNFed at mile 20. "By the way, Peter put in a 28mph bike at IMC…" Better buy a calculator Jeff!

Response:

The only info I’ve been able to get is on IronmanLive, any other good stories/write ups? As far as following any race I couldn’t find it on the dish or cable here in Ottawa, I was pissed beyond belief. Oh and about the 28mph…I was using new age math my eight year old was teaching me, I should have known better, used it to calculate my cadence from speed/gear inches last week and came out about 33. Jeff Richardson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Uneventfull? You must have been following another race! On the mens side an age grouper was hanging with P. Ried for much of the bike…WOW! On the womens side the lead went through many changes and Tucsons Jeanne Anne Krizman led through the half way point of the run before blowing up. Could not find it on television and apart from the fact that Canadians rocked, it was uneventful.

Response:

any comments about IMC?  (or has it all been said before?)

My comments are that there are too many people in that race.  The swim is a joke. I felt like a Sardine in a tuna can, and the bike is  one long paceline.  Way too many people.  But I know my attitude is in the minority.

Response:

The swim is a joke. I felt like a Sardine in a tuna can, and the bike is  one long paceline.  Way too many people.  

What do you expect with an Ironman race. IMC is one of the most popular races in the Ironman series. Marc

Response:

An ironman mass start in itself is a "gangbang" to be sure.  I would expect that of an ironman.  I would expect no drafting rules enforced on the bike.  I would expect to be able to race the course without interference.  I would be very concerned about safety issues with more people on the course.  I would look seriously at other ironman distance races not affiliated with World Triathlon Corporation or Ironman North America.  Those races don’t have the problems of too many people and are just as quaint with equally enthusiastic volunteers that would love to have more competitors and their dollars contributing to their communities. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The swim is a joke. I felt like a Sardine in a tuna can, and the bike is  one long paceline.  Way too many people. What do you expect with an Ironman race. IMC is one of the most popular races in the Ironman series. Marc

Response:

Question:

Eagleman was my first 1/2 and I’m still feeling pretty drained.  Everything is back to normal with the exception of some low energy.  All I’ve done this week is a short 30 minute swim on Wednesday and again on Friday.  I raced Columbia then two weeks later did Eagleman.  Hopefully my energy will return before Sunday.  Because I’m doing the Chesapeake Bay swim, and I sure as hell hate to find out I don’t have enough energy to get across when I’m out in the middle! See ya, Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just thinking about this yesterday as day number 4 without a workout rolled nonchalantly past, and I was still happy to let it go. After Blackwater, I felt more beat up than I could ever recall after a 1/2IM (this was my 8th go at this distance).  Usually I’m up and *slowly* creeping about by day 2…but not this time. I might get to the pool today for an easy swim, but even if I don’t, I’m not overly concerned.  Anyone else as un-motivated after a hard cycle? I raced both Columbia and Blackwater, with an 85/10 brick over Memorial Day weekend…I’m wondering if it’s all catching up at once. For both Ruth and Pete, and everyone else recovering quickly from Blackwater…God Bless!  I’m still in love with naps and sitting in my hammock watching the sunset this week.  Maybe I’ll ride Saturday… …naaah.  6 Weeks to Tupper.  I need my rest.  :) Hurricane Bob *Always make sure you have a Bob nearby for those unexpected emergencies* Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Ruth, you are amazing.   I did Keauhou a couple weeks ago and still feel some lingering fatigue.   I can work out at a high level but perceive the effort to be beyond what it is.   Feel great for short bursts but fall apart on the long hauls.   I think one more week will do it.   Hope so as I will do the Mid Night Sun marathon in Anchorage on the 21st. That is about typical for me for pushing the 1/2 IM distance.   You must be eating right.  Maybe it’s just the Karma. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m really really curious about the recovery time of others who felt so totally wiped out by Sunday’s BWE.  I took off Monday because of the adductor pain, swam 3500 and biked a windy 25 on Tuesday, the same on Wednesday, had a TBF* attack yesterday, and today, after a 4 mile run – whaddyaknow? – I feel great!  Aside from some lingering adductor aches I’m totally recovered.  Because I’m wondering about the connection between age and recovery time, I would like to know how others are faring. *TBF: Total Body Failure Ruth Kazez P.S. Another thread. David Bowden (age 18 or so?) says, in answer to why he races: 1. Suffer from inherited compulsive competitiveness disorder. 2. Triathletes are the nicest people and the best place to find them is at races. 3. Need something to do with excess energy. 4. I like having medals and trophies cluttering my room. 5. What else am I going to spend money on (why earn it if it’s not for something important ie bike. NB I live with my parents so have no living costs). 6. I like having sinewy limbs and not getting puffed doing every day things. 7. I really love getting outside on a nice day and hurting myself. 8. Occasionally I get some money from it (not often enough though). Aside from #8 and half of #5, I have all the same reasons.  Growing up never did come easy to me.  Maybe…someday. I like the toys so much, so I have to use them. RK

Response:

It’s funny that you should ask this — it’s been a big issue on my mind for the last few days. To echo the feelings of what other’s wrote, Sunday was by far the hardest 1/2 I’ve ever done. I feel worse now than I did a week after my first ironman last year. Until this morning, I was sure I was going to do Thundergust. After speaking to my trainer, I’m not sure if it’s a good idea (she’s sure it isn’t). Unlike some people, I did only Blackwater this past weekend. I did go really hard, though, and I had a really bad race. I’ve worked out once this week, and it wasn’t too hard, either. For some reason that race took a lot out of me physically and mentally. Stephan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m really really curious about the recovery time of others who felt so totally wiped out by Sunday’s BWE.  I took off Monday because of the adductor pain, swam 3500 and biked a windy 25 on Tuesday, the same on Wednesday, had a TBF* attack yesterday, and today, after a 4 mile run – whaddyaknow? – I feel great!  Aside from some lingering adductor aches I’m totally recovered.  Because I’m wondering about the connection between age and recovery time, I would like to know how others are faring.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ruth, you’re right.  There is a positive correlation between age and recovery time. When you get older, you might not recover so quickly.  It is therefore important that you at least look cool while you’re doing it. Ray Ps..   been swimming all week, ran twice, will bike tomorrow if I can find a handlebar plug to replace the one I lost at mile 40 at BWE. Ray Plotecia Male Amateur, 50-54 Ruxton, MD

Damn, I missed a shot at giving out another penalty  ;^) — Bruce Platt

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My body hurt on Monday, but after that I felt fine physically, however, mentally/emotionally I’ve been a bit off all week. Training has not been a problem. All that is except for my foot, which hurts, but I don’t think that’s what you were talking about. I have really decided that during the run I have never been so miserable in my entire life. Nothing chalks up to that in my memory. Nothing. For some reason that’s been very dramatic for me. Maybe it’s the impending marathon at Ironman USA, no, probably it is. In addition to the "why do you race" thread – I have my own answer which occured to me this morning as I did the following:  "so I can eat a dozen Krispy Kreme donuts on the way to work and not gain an ounce!" Yup, I ate an entire dozen warm glazed donuts on a 20 minute drive to work this morning. SchwingDing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m really really curious about the recovery time of others who felt so totally wiped out by Sunday’s BWE.  I took off Monday because of the adductor pain, swam 3500 and biked a windy 25 on Tuesday, the same on Wednesday, had a TBF* attack yesterday, and today, after a 4 mile run – whaddyaknow? – I feel great!  Aside from some lingering adductor aches I’m totally recovered.  Because I’m wondering about the connection between age and recovery time, I would like to know how others are faring. *TBF: Total Body Failure Ruth Kazez P.S. Another thread. David Bowden (age 18 or so?) says, in answer to why he races:  1. Suffer from inherited compulsive competitiveness disorder.  2. Triathletes are the nicest people and the best place to find them is at races.  3. Need something to do with excess energy.  4. I like having medals and trophies cluttering my room.  5. What else am I going to spend money on (why earn it if it’s not for something important ie bike. NB I live with my parents so have no living costs).  6. I like having sinewy limbs and not getting puffed doing every day things.  7. I really love getting outside on a nice day and hurting myself.  8. Occasionally I get some money from it (not often enough though). Aside from #8 and half of #5, I have all the same reasons.  Growing up never did come easy to me.  Maybe…someday. I like the toys so much, so I have to use them. RK

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I was just thinking about this yesterday as day number 4 without a workout rolled nonchalantly past, and I was still happy to let it go. After Blackwater, I felt more beat up than I could ever recall after a 1/2IM (this was my 8th go at this distance).  Usually I’m up and *slowly* creeping about by day 2…but not this time. I might get to the pool today for an easy swim, but even if I don’t, I’m not overly concerned.  Anyone else as un-motivated after a hard cycle? I raced both Columbia and Blackwater, with an 85/10 brick over Memorial Day weekend…I’m wondering if it’s all catching up at once. For both Ruth and Pete, and everyone else recovering quickly from Blackwater…God Bless!  I’m still in love with naps and sitting in my hammock watching the sunset this week.  Maybe I’ll ride Saturday… …naaah.  6 Weeks to Tupper.  I need my rest.  :) Hurricane Bob *Always make sure you have a Bob nearby for those unexpected emergencies* Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Ruth, you’re right.  There is a positive correlation between age and recovery time. When you get older, you might not recover so quickly.  It is therefore important that you at least look cool while you’re doing it. Ray Ps..   been swimming all week, ran twice, will bike tomorrow if I can find a handlebar plug to replace the one I lost at mile 40 at BWE. Ray Plotecia Male Amateur, 50-54 Ruxton, MD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m really really curious about the recovery time of others who felt so totally wiped out by Sunday’s BWE.  I took off Monday because of the adductor pain, swam 3500 and biked a windy 25 on Tuesday, the same on Wednesday, had a TBF* attack yesterday, and today, after a 4 mile run – whaddyaknow? – I feel great!  Aside from some lingering adductor aches I’m totally recovered.  Because I’m wondering about the connection between age and recovery time, I would like to know how others are faring. *TBF: Total Body Failure Ruth Kazez P.S. Another thread. David Bowden (age 18 or so?) says, in answer to why he races: 1. Suffer from inherited compulsive competitiveness disorder. 2. Triathletes are the nicest people and the best place to find them is at races. 3. Need something to do with excess energy. 4. I like having medals and trophies cluttering my room. 5. What else am I going to spend money on (why earn it if it’s not for something important ie bike. NB I live with my parents so have no living costs). 6. I like having sinewy limbs and not getting puffed doing every day things. 7. I really love getting outside on a nice day and hurting myself. 8. Occasionally I get some money from it (not often enough though). Aside from #8 and half of #5, I have all the same reasons.  Growing up never did come easy to me.  Maybe…someday. I like the toys so much, so I have to use them. RK

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I’m really really curious about the recovery time of others who felt so totally wiped out by Sunday’s BWE.  I took off Monday because of the adductor pain, swam 3500 and biked a windy 25 on Tuesday, the same on Wednesday, had a TBF* attack yesterday, and today, after a 4 mile run – whaddyaknow? – I feel great!  Aside from some lingering adductor aches I’m totally recovered.  Because I’m wondering about the connection between age and recovery time, I would like to know how others are faring. *TBF: Total Body Failure Ruth Kazez P.S. Another thread. David Bowden (age 18 or so?) says, in answer to why he races:  1. Suffer from inherited compulsive competitiveness disorder.  2. Triathletes are the nicest people and the best place to find them is at races.  3. Need something to do with excess energy.  4. I like having medals and trophies cluttering my room.  5. What else am I going to spend money on (why earn it if it’s not for something important ie bike. NB I live with my parents so have no living costs).  6. I like having sinewy limbs and not getting puffed doing every day things.  7. I really love getting outside on a nice day and hurting myself.  8. Occasionally I get some money from it (not often enough though). Aside from #8 and half of #5, I have all the same reasons.  Growing up never did come easy to me.  Maybe…someday. I like the toys so much, so I have to use them. RK

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I’m really really curious about the recovery time of others who felt so totally wiped out by Sunday’s BWE.  I took off Monday because of the adductor pain, swam 3500 and biked a windy 25 on Tuesday, the same on Wednesday, had a TBF* attack yesterday, and today, after a 4 mile run – whaddyaknow? – I feel great!  Aside from some lingering adductor aches I’m totally recovered.  Because I’m wondering about the connection between age and recovery time, I would like to know how others are faring. *TBF: Total Body Failure Ruth Kazez

The body acts in strange ways Ruth. The lingering heat two days after the race didn’t help me either, but when the heat wave broke, I felt a hundred times better. Maybe you experienced the same thing? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -P.S. Another thread. David Bowden (age 18 or so?) says, in answer to why he races: 1. Suffer from inherited compulsive competitiveness disorder. 2. Triathletes are the nicest people and the best place to find them is at races. 3. Need something to do with excess energy. 4. I like having medals and trophies cluttering my room. 5. What else am I going to spend money on (why earn it if it’s not for something important ie bike. NB I live with my parents so have no living costs). 6. I like having sinewy limbs and not getting puffed doing every day things. 7. I really love getting outside on a nice day and hurting myself. 8. Occasionally I get some money from it (not often enough though). Aside from #8 and half of #5, I have all the same reasons.  Growing up never did come easy to me.  Maybe…someday. I like the toys so much, so I have to use them. RK

I agree.  I’m definitely having fun with triathlon. Plus, I always love to test myself against the best; that is why you will see me in the big races. I know of nothing else that would better suit my time.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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I will be participating in my first triathlon (sprint) on June 9th.  I have the chance to participate in two more for a total of three sprint tri’s in three consecutive weekends (June 16th and June 23rd).  Am I a little too optomistic?  Will I have enough time to recover from each race for the next? I have been running for two years, swimming for 4 months, and biking (seriously) for a month. Is this even possible? Thanks in advance, Noel

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I will be participating in my first triathlon (sprint) on June 9th.  I have the chance to participate in two more for a total of three sprint tri’s in three consecutive weekends (June 16th and June 23rd).  Am I a little too optomistic?  Will I have enough time to recover from each race for the next? I have been running for two years, swimming for 4 months, and biking (seriously) for a month. Is this even possible? Thanks in advance, Noel

It’s possible do all three, but I would have to express some reservation on this choice since you are just starting out in triathlon and you do not know how your body will recover from one race, let alone two or three. My advice is to maybe leave out the middle one and do the two on each end of your schedule. This way, you have two weeks between each race and enough time to recover from the first to do your second. Once you get a few triathlons under your belt and get the feel for how your body recovers, then you can schedule more aggressively in the future. Hope this helps.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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Question:

When doing laps in a pool is it best to look down at the bottom or out in front of you and should the head be under the waterline or in line with the forehead?

The better question is which head position allows YOUR body to achieve weight balance.  If you need to kick hard to keep your legs from sinking, your head may be too high. When I am doing 500 meters/yards repeats, I try to get the waterline about in the middle of my head.  If I am sprinting (200s or less distance), I will lift my head a bit such that the water level is on the forehead; in this position, the kick is required to be stronger in order to keep the legs up and the body flat (i.e., causing minimum drag).  However, in this position, I will be using more energy than I will want to expend in a triathlon of international distance or langer. IMO, the secret of swimming in triathlons is doing what is necessary to minimize drag, thus allowing the most speed while minimizing unnecessary energy expenditure. Bob Williams 55-59 Severna Park, MD

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you should be looking forward at a 45 degrees angle; the waterline is in line with the hairline (unless you’re bald ). i like to check my head position by watching my arm stroke as i swim. if i can see the catch and pull phases, it’s okay. HTH, -stephan

Agreed. Somewhere I read that this position provides the most minimal drag in the head area as well. Keep the forehead at the waterline.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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Where your head/neck feels comfortable.  in the old days, swim coaches used to force keeping the head up or water line above your eyes, etc.. not anymore.. When doing laps in a pool is it best to look down at the bottom or out in front of you and should the head be under the waterline or in line with the forehead?

– Regards, Ardalan "Ardy" Sadeghi Performance Administration Corp "Building Bridges Between Todays Sales and Tomorrow’s Customers"     Work: 800-405-3148              Fax: 330-493-6875 Cellular: 330-284-6416             Home: Homeless for now!

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When doing laps in a pool is it best to look down at the bottom or out in front of you and should the head be under the waterline or in line with the forehead?

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you should be looking forward at a 45 degrees angle; the waterline is in line with the hairline (unless you’re bald ). i like to check my head position by watching my arm stroke as i swim. if i can see the catch and pull phases, it’s okay. HTH, -stephan — stephan mantler: endurance sports maniac    reality is in fact virtual.

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Question:

all respect to spencer — a great athlete, great competitor, and a great guy, but the best triathlon cyclist ever is Jurgen Zack.  period. did you ever hear about the thousand dollar match race to the top of mt. palomar?

No. Please, do tell! David

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did you ever hear about the thousand dollar match race to the top of mt. palomar?

nope.  i’m basing this mostly on the handful of crazy ironman splits he’s put up over the years — head and shoulders above every except Hellreigel (who is fast but much less consistent).  the latest being a 4:14:18 at roth — the fastest ever. Jurgen routinely gets outsplit at places like Phuket, but i defy any triathlete EVER to hang with him in an ironman when Jurgen’s on. -mike p.s. – what was this match race?

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You can get full results at: www.cyclingnews.com Mercury and Saturn are there from the US, and they are dominating the event, even with some well-respected Euro outfits in the mix (Big Mat, etc.).  Most of the teams are sending their young, developing riders to this race.  And, it’s a chance for the U.S. based teams to score some UCI points to qualify for entry into bigger Euro races.  It’s also worth noting that there is about $400,000 (yes, four hundred thousand) up for grabs here – making it one of the richest purses in cycling. As for Spencer, from the reports, it looks as though he got kicked off the back late into stage 2 as they went over 2 cat. I climbs.  By no means is he embarrasing himself, as he only lost 9 minutes on the day, while others lost up to 30 minutes and more. Stage 3 was short and flat, and he finished with the pack. Before you buy.

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Doubt it.  I follow cycling very closely, and I’ve never heard of any reference to Gord being related to the tri organiser. — Andre Charlebois BPE in exercise science, MCP, CNA, A+ webmaster for Triathlon New Brunswick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stage 2 results are in….Spencer finshed 119th out of 148, 9:17 down to Stage winner Jamie Drew.  He sits in 82nd place in the GC, 10:22 down to leader Daniele Contrini. I noticed a Canadian sitting in 9th place in the GC by the name of Gordon Fraser.  Any relation to Mitch & Grahme, of Ironman & President’s Choice fame? Before you buy.

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Nope. Gord Fraser lives in Tucson, Arizona and is a training partner of Jimmy Riccitello. Traci R.

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Interesting topic.

i guess i’m surprised that so few people over the years realize this, and if they did there would be more recognition of mark allen’s prowess on the bike.  jurgen is a very good rider, but in germany it was always of primary importance for wolfgang to be first out of the water, and for jurgen to "win the bike."  next in line of importance was to be the first german.  those were always huge goals to these guys.  right up there with winning the race.  so they were always racing within the race, there were finish lines before the final finish line. mark never really thought about anything but the win.  there is a point of view that mark was always the best cyclist at ironman hawaii.  jurgen is very good, and i think emblematic of that was jurgen’s win at zofingen, back when that was an extremely stacked race.  zofingen is much more of a rider’s race than hawaii, or any ironman really, and jurgen won it (and he won it on the bike).  but mark won that race as well, also dropping everyone on the bike (except, i believe, tobin), and also in a stacked field.  like reid today, allen was terrific on the bike, very underrated. slowman

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Nope, but it sounds interesting Dan. Any chance of a story?

spencer’s late father, bill, was an extremely compelling and likeable guy.  we were all his buddies, he is very much missed.  and he was an extreme character.  one thing about spencer and bill, they were really a team, and one endearing quality was that they always used to refer to each other’s efforts in the plural.  "we just didn’t have it today," bill would say, "we rode well, but we just couldn’t hang with simon in the last two k’s of the run.  we’ll get him next time." so one day at yogi’s, which is where bill would regularly imbibe, jurgen and the germans were there (yogi’s is in cardiff, just a stone’s throw from where the germans stay every year in solana beach).  they get to talking, bill is having a few, so are the germans, and i don’t know exactly how it all came to pass, but the upshot is that they get into the discussion you all are having on the NG now. "we’ll lay a thousand bucks that we can outride you to the top of palomar," bill says.  "i’ll take that bet," jurgen replies. so pretty much all of san diego finds out about this, and there are more spectators than usually show at most triathlons.  everybody’s there.  my wife and i can hardly navigate the traffic.  just for these two guys.   palomar is timed from what is called here locally, "the store to the store," which means the store right after the turnoff from valley center road onto hwy 76 (which is where the climbing starts) to the store right after you get to the top of the mountain, technically about 30 meters to the left of the intersection with east grade road (this is where the climbing stops, although the observatory sits a few hundred feet higher, technically).  it is 11.7 mi of climbing, and starts right at 1000′ above sea level, plus or minus a hundred, and ends at about 5200′, or perhaps 5300′.  it is about 9% for the first two miles, then is anywhere from 6% to 7%, and then you hit the 4000′ elevation sign and you’re back up to 9% again until the top.  so the overall average is 7%.  but it dips once at 4 miles for a slight descent and some flat, for about a half mile, so the real average for all the climbing is probably closer to 7.5%. they rode out to the hill, which is a good long distance to start with. mark allen rode with them, and also climbed, but he wasn’t part of the bet and had no intention of heating it up with them when they turned onto the climb.   they eventually reached the lower store, and then they started up.  jurgen was riding a softride power v set up strictly for road.  spencer was riding a 650c road race bike, road geometry, also strictly a road set-up. the first part of the hill is, as i said, tough.  if you are in any trouble at all, you’ll struggle right from the start.  and it was within the first two miles that spencer shot ahead. it was pretty much over right there.  jurgen rode very well, but spencer was never pushed.  he finished in 58 minutes and change.  it was his first ever trip up the hill.  I believe jurgen was a couple of minutes or so back. NOBODY breaks an hour up palomar.  you’re sort of a god if you do.  i believe hegg has done it.  i’ve heard allen has gone 57 at one point, out of many many climbs up the thing.  i heard a rumor once that kenny souza went 54 minutes, but i recently asked him about it and he said he’d never gotten under an hour.  i also heard that rominger once did it in 49 minutes, but i flat don’t believe it.  i classify that as an urban myth. if you do climb it well, it is almost certainly because you’ve gone up it plenty of times and have it "wired".  but it’s very difficult to wire that hill.  it never gets shorter, you never get your arms around it, no matter how many times you do it.  it’s big and it’s bad.  my first time up i didn’t even get up.  i turned around at 4000′.  it kicks your ass, and as i said, to break an hour on one’s first trip up, without a group in which to ride, that’s just not done. perhaps over 200km jurgen would be the better rider.  one must remember, though, that spencer always trained like an ultra racer, even though he never was, except for the one year, in ‘98.  so who knows who was better? but spencer whupped him on that day, and did it on a very fast ride up. and jurgen, to his credit, right in front of the store at the top, laid out, into bill smith’s hands, ten c-notes. slowman

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re: the now historical Spencer/Jurgen Palomar Mountain bet….. As an eyeball witness and just to keep the story totally accurate in every detail for triathlon history, the discussion and the bet actually took place at The Coyote bar in Carlsbad, CA., another one of Bill Smith’s (and mine) frequent watering holes. It was a true bar room bet l,,. ..a classic Bill Smith production. That guy was  amazing, a good book could be written of his life and times,  A  friend that I really miss. JJ

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Tour of Langkawi, Malaysia 1 Floyd Landis (USA) Mercury Cycling Team                  12.20.88 (44.7 km/h) 2 Frank McCormack (USA) Saturn Cycling Team                    7.45 3 Daniele Contrini (Ita) Liquigas Pata                        10.68 4 Nathan O’Neill (Aus) Panaria Gaerne                         13.11 5 Chris Wherry (USA) Saturn Cycling Team                      14.39 6 Trent Klasna (USA) Saturn Cycling Team                      17.95 7 Mark Walters (Can) Canada                                   19.62 8 Gordon Fraser (Can) Mercury Cycling Team                    20.90 9 Lennie Kristensen (Den) Denmark                             21.51 10 Tom Leaper (Aus) Panaria Gaerne                            27.46 53 Spencer Smith (GBr) Linda McCartney                      1.09.94 http://www.cyclingnews.com LW — Curloo Bicycles web:          http://www.curloo.com                   http://www.deewal.com associate:  http://www.elitebicycles.com

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Great first effort by Spencer Smith in his first stage of his first Pro Road race since leaving the sport of triathlon. This was a time-trial/prologue I am to understand and there was about 150 entries. Interesting to note that Smith finished in the top 1/3 of the field. It’s still very early in the season and many pro-roadies use these "races" as purely training. Still, facinating to see arguably the top cyclist from the sport of trithlon finish in the upper middle of the pack in a time trial(his specialty one would assume coming straight from triathlon) in a race filled with, in the grand scheme of things, mostly B-level pros. I wish Smith the best and will be following his progress this year with interest. Steve Fleck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tour of Langkawi, Malaysia 1 Floyd Landis (USA) Mercury Cycling Team                  12.20.88 (44.7 km/h) 2 Frank McCormack (USA) Saturn Cycling Team                    7.45 3 Daniele Contrini (Ita) Liquigas Pata                        10.68 4 Nathan O’Neill (Aus) Panaria Gaerne                         13.11 5 Chris Wherry (USA) Saturn Cycling Team                      14.39 6 Trent Klasna (USA) Saturn Cycling Team                      17.95 7 Mark Walters (Can) Canada                                   19.62 8 Gordon Fraser (Can) Mercury Cycling Team                    20.90 9 Lennie Kristensen (Den) Denmark                             21.51 10 Tom Leaper (Aus) Panaria Gaerne                            27.46 53 Spencer Smith (GBr) Linda McCartney                      1.09.94 http://www.cyclingnews.com LW — Curloo Bicycles web:          http://www.curloo.com                   http://www.deewal.com associate:  http://www.elitebicycles.com

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Great first effort by Spencer Smith in his first stage of his first Pro Road race since leaving the sport of triathlon. This was a time-trial/prologue I am to understand and there was about 150 entries. Interesting to note that Smith finished in the top 1/3 of the field.

Also interesting to note that the winner of this race was Floyd Landis, former hotshot mountain biker. I remember being in races with him and watching him lap half the field on big, 6 or 8 mile laps. Sorry, but I’m an ex-mtb racer and couldn’t resist… Wes  

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But this was a sprint …  a 9k !  The bike may have been his ‘tri’ strength, but this distance was not. — Mark

<snippag – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  …Still, facinating to see arguably the top cyclist from the sport of trithlon  finish in the upper middle of the pack in a time trial(his specialty one would  assume coming straight from triathlon) in a race filled with, in the grand  scheme of things, mostly B-level pros.

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. Still, facinating to see arguably the top cyclist from the sport of trithlon finish in the upper middle of the pack in a time trial(his specialty one would assume coming straight from triathlon) in a race filled with, in the grand scheme of things, mostly B-level pros.

all respect to spencer — a great athlete, great competitor, and a great guy, but the best triathlon cyclist ever is Jurgen Zack.  period. -mike

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all respect to spencer — a great athlete, great competitor, and a great guy, but the best triathlon cyclist ever is Jurgen Zack.  period.

did you ever hear about the thousand dollar match race to the top of mt. palomar? slowman

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Stage 2 results are in….Spencer finshed 119th out of 148, 9:17 down to Stage winner Jamie Drew.  He sits in 82nd place in the GC, 10:22 down to leader Daniele Contrini. I noticed a Canadian sitting in 9th place in the GC by the name of Gordon Fraser.  Any relation to Mitch & Grahme, of Ironman & President’s Choice fame? Before you buy.

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53 Spencer Smith (GBr) Linda McCartney                      1.09.94

The Linda McCartney team was also in Adelaide, Australia for the Tour Down Under (ranked UCI 2.3) (see http://www.tourdownunder.com.au ), held 18-23 of January 2000.  Spencer didn’t get a ride but he was apparently training with the team during their few weeks here.  I didn’t realize Spencer had swapped sports until he was standing right next to me (I was next to the team car). I had a quick chat with him, he seemed surprised that he was recognised at all! (he wasn’t wearing team gear).  When I asked him why he changed sports he said that he’s "completely had enough of triathlon".   He looks a lot ‘leaner’ now too. Cheers Gemma

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but the best triathlon cyclist ever is Jurgen Zack.  period.

??????? if you had of prefaced that with"the best Ironman cyclist ever" I would agree, but as far as being the best ever, period, I don’t agree, period. Mike Plumb

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What’s the sense in being the best "triathlon-cyclist" if you stuff it all up for the run. I am sure Luc and Peter could ride harder if they didn’t care about trying to still be able to run the marathon and win the race. The best "cyclist" on the day is ultimately the overall winner because he was able to hold it together the longest. Lloyd — Curloo Bicycles web:          http://www.curloo.com                   http://www.deewal.com associate:  http://www.elitebicycles.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . Still, facinating to see arguably the top cyclist from the sport of trithlon finish in the upper middle of the pack in a time trial(his specialty one would assume coming straight from triathlon) in a race filled with, in the grand scheme of things, mostly B-level pros. all respect to spencer — a great athlete, great competitor, and a great guy, but the best triathlon cyclist ever is Jurgen Zack.  period. -mike

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guy, but the best triathlon cyclist ever is Jurgen Zack.  period.

uhhh nope Lance Armstrong would have to be the best triathlete  John Hansen  Sarasota Fl.

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all respect to spencer — a great athlete, great competitor, and a great guy, but the best triathlon cyclist ever is Jurgen Zack.  period.

I would have to side with Lance on this one.  An old school choice might go with John Howard. Dave

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What’s the sense in being the best "triathlon-cyclist" if you stuff it all up for the run. I am sure Luc and Peter could ride harder if they didn’t care about trying to still be able to run the marathon and win the race. The best "cyclist" on the day is ultimately the overall winner because he was able to hold it together the longest. Lloyd

Lloyd, Interesting topic. I had this very conversation with Peter Reid at Ironman after Ironman canada in 1997. Pete had been on the sidelines watching. On the day a very good runner, Colin Dignum, blitzed the run course at IMC in 2:36 – for a final time of 9:15. Colin is a decent cyclist and an OK runner, but his goal on that day was to record the fastest marathon run split ever in an Ironman and at the time I believe that it was. It was particularly impressive because the IMC run course is not super fast.Anyway, Colin had worked the bike, but not gone all out. Afterwards, Pete and I were talking about this, that at his level it was more or less the same. You have to work the bike but because these races almost invariably come down to the run, need to be able to "cruise" the bike at a level that will still allow you to run well off the bike. To be consistantly successful at the Ironman distance you have to find that cruise level that works for you. Obviously Peter Reid has become a master of this over the last three years as no other man has shown the consistancy he has. He’s able to ride fast with out it killing him and then get off the bike and put the race away on the run. The game out on the Queen K at IMC becomes one of cat and mouse, but ultimately it’s going to be the person who’s legs/body has been least affected by the 112 miles of cycling and who can then start laying down the 6:00 min miles right from the get go on the run, right to the finish line. Steve Fleck  

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I noticed a Canadian sitting in 9th place in the GC by the name of Gordon Fraser.  Any relation to Mitch & Grahme, of Ironman & President’s Choice fame?

To the best of my knowledge, no, there is no relation. Steve Fleck

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did you ever hear about the thousand dollar match race to the top of mt. palomar? slowman

Nope, but it sounds interesting Dan. Any chance of a story? Andy A Before you buy.

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I would go with Mike Pigg as one of the best.  The boy could deffinitely hammer anyone into submission.   Jay

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I’ve heard about it.  But Dan, don’t you think the outcome would have been different if they had ridden draft free 105 miles before they got to the base of Mount Palomar?  I do. Regarding Lance, he is definitely a strong cyclist NOW, but I don’t think his bike splits as a Triathlete matched the modern performances of Smith, Pigg, Zack, or Helreigel.  Armstrong is no longer a Triathlete so his form now can’t be counted. all respect to spencer — a great athlete, great competitor, and a great guy, but the best triathlon cyclist ever is Jurgen Zack.  period. did you ever hear about the thousand dollar match race to the top of mt. palomar? slowman

Before you buy.

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Question:

So far every one has been right on. The whole event was GREAT! This was my first age group championship, and I had a fantastic time. Even though my time sucked. I sucked at nationals, so it was okay. We would be remiss if we didn’t also say thanks to the people of Saint Joseph. By closing their streets, we inconvienienced them and still they were out there cheering us on and volunteering to help. Volunteers can make or break a race, in this case they helped to make it a very pleasent experience. They blocked off the streets for us! And not with a bunch of college students in orange vests. They used BIG orange dump trucks to block the intersections! I even met Emilio De Soto while getting my race packet!  Congratulations on qualifying, Emilio!  Maybe one day, I will too. I have a few pictures and a race report on my web page.  The URL is http://members.home.net/kueffner/triathlon1.htm.  The web page has links to the race report and pictures (big, high-resolution pictures that take hours to download at 28.8). I only have one question: Whose idea was it to put aid station number two on the bike route in the middle of Highland Street hill?  8-) Jim Kueffner Master Engineer Applied Communications, Inc.

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Good to meet you too Jim. The aid station on the uphill makes more sence that on flat ground or on the down hill.  Usually impossible to get a water bottle from a person standing still when going over 25 MPH! Emilio De Soto II Triathlete/President and Designer De Soto Sport Triathlon Clothing Email me for a free catalog

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Question:

Hello.  I am attempting to compete in atleast one triathlon this year. I have been working on my base training and am now ready to move to the next level.  I have several books on training, but was wondering if anyone out there has a year-long training schedule that they would like to share with me… Thanks in advance…. Scott Allen Tiller Austin, TX

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I have no clue how to start your training but think you are awfully cute.  Wanna meet somewhere?

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Maybe you already know, but you are in a great city to get in touch with a lot of triathletes.  Austin Triathletes is one of the top tri-clubs around Texas, if not the nation, and I’m sure any of the people in the organization could help you.  Call Austin Tri-cyclist (one of their sponsors) and I’m sure one of the people in the shop can help you get in touch with the right people (sorry, don’t have the number handy).  James Bonney, a pro, is part of that club along with some other great triathletes (Missy Ruthven, Michael Lovato, Jon Hill – just to name a few).  I’d be more than happy to give you more info, if you want, on how to get in touch with them or a year-long training schedule. -Kendall (P.S. – I’m about an hour south of you in San Antonio). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I am attempting to compete in atleast one triathlon this year. I have been working on my base training and am now ready to move to the next level.  I have several books on training, but was wondering if anyone out there has a year-long training schedule that they would like to share with me… Thanks in advance…. Scott Allen Tiller Austin, TX

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Question:

I would recommend you contact Matt Haugen at the USAT National Office.  USAT has various programs underway for junior development – I’m sure he’d be willing to help.   Also, search Yahoo.com for triathlon organizations.  You should find one titled "triathlon junior olympics" set up by Kyle Sage.  I can’t remember the exact site, but it has some relevant junior info and Kyle specializes in coaching juniors.   Good luck. Steve

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Jeff, It is kinda confusing but lets see if I can explain. My son Ryan has been competing there for a while now. There are 2 ‘Junior’ age-groups that have had a ‘Nationals’ in the last few years. First, there is a 13-15 age group that holds Nationals in Clermont Florida the weekend of Aug 8th. ANYONE can compete, there is no qualifying … although the field is surprisingly fast. You have to be at least 13, and have been 15 for at least 1 day in 1999 – so there are some 16 yr olds at Nationals. This race is a Sprint 400m Swim/11mile bike/5k run – top few boys are under 1 hour, girls slightly over. Ryan took 4th in 98 and when realizing the top 3 were aging up said …"oh no, I guess I’m supposed to win next year!" … talk about great motivation! (He actually took 10th overall since we -the US- invited the Mexican Junior team to compete with us, not counting towards nationals). It was also a good excuse to practice his Freshman Spanish – and a good taste of world-class competition. This age group used to be called "Junior B" and competed at worlds until 3 years ago – now the focus is on the older Juniors. The second ‘Junior’ age group is 16-19 – same  aging rules. This group competes in ITU style draft legal olympic distance races (same as the rest of the world). The goal of this group is to take spots on the coveted ‘World Team’. Being invited to the National Training Camp is the way to make worlds, and there are 3 races – Columbia, Clermont, and Vineman where the top 2 finishers each sex in each race (who also make a time cut-off) are invited to camp. The world team is selected from those campers. Competing at Nationals in Missouri in Sept is the same as any other age-grouper except the category is 19&under. Most races around the country only have a 19&under category – a few have younger breaks. We are on the east coast, and Ryan has really enjoyed Fiske’s races in Mass and RI, the West Point tri – at the US Army Academy, and Mrs T’s in Chicago. There is a whole group of good friends scattered around the country who attend Tri camp with Cyle Sage in Florida and Roswell NM and compete together in the summer – they keep in touch via email,and AOLIM the rest of the year. Hope this helps. Anyone interested in more info on the Junior ‘circuit’ feel Jeff Loechner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello- Can anyone provide me with information about the 1999 Junior Nationals. I went through the Age Group competition last year and am just beginning to learn the process. A young friend of mine is thinking about competeing in the Junior race. How can he find out if he has qualified for the race? Is it the same date as the Age Group Nationals? And how many juniors are accepted? Thanks Jeff

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Jeff, Jr.s have an entirely differant qualifying process. Jr. qualifying races are draft legal format. For 1999 they will have to place  top 2 at the Columbia , Age Group Worlds Qualifier, or Vineman Int’l tris plus meet time standards that have been established (swim m-19:26/f-21:41 bike m-1:01:22/f-1:11:26 run m-34:22/f- 41:23 or be within 5 percent of the fastest Jr. at the event). Check the USA Triathlon Times for more info. Hope this info was helpfull and good luck.     B.Oliver

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I’m glad that this subject was brought up… I’m also interested in competing as a Junior this year but with these new standards probably won’t make it… There’s one thing that I don’t understand about why they set up these time standards… last year, even the best of our juniors would have been unable to meet these standards.  I can’t see how six junior males could meet these standards…  maybe there is a whole new crop of great athletes that weren’t competing last year, I don’t know. —  Salvador Santolucito III

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jeff, Jr.s have an entirely differant qualifying process. Jr. qualifying races are draft legal format. For 1999 they will have to place  top 2 at the Columbia , Age Group Worlds Qualifier, or Vineman Int’l tris plus meet time standards that have been established (swim m-19:26/f-21:41 bike m-1:01:22/f-1:11:26 run m-34:22/f- 41:23 or be within 5 percent of the fastest Jr. at the event). Check the USA Triathlon Times for more info. Hope this info was helpfull and good luck.    B.Oliver

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Hello- Can anyone provide me with information about the 1999 Junior Nationals. I went through the Age Group competition last year and am just beginning to learn the process. A young friend of mine is thinking about competeing in the Junior race. How can he find out if he has qualified for the race? Is it the same date as the Age Group Nationals? And how many juniors are accepted? Thanks Jeff

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Question:

."Magnificent"?????? Steve, I, too, am grateful to WTC for their efforts, but I cannot agree with your hyperbolic use of the term "magnificent" to describe the broadcast.

Good call. I thought this was Steve’s Locke version of spin control….a hyperbolic, quick post immediately after the telecast. Set the agenda.    Ah, James Carville would be proud.:) I’ll quit ragging on it all now.  I’m glad it was on and while I obviously wish it had been different, I think we’ve gotten the point across.  Maybe it’s a measure of the way we all look at that event.  We DON’T own it……we just FEEL like we do. And that ain’t all bad! Happy Holidays to everybody. Mark  

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–Does anyone know how Zack’s helmet buckle came undone?  I guess it would be possible for it to come undone, sort of a freak occurance.  But, I’ve never had that happen in ten years of riding.  Is there any chance that it was tampered with?

This crossed my mind too, yet no one has tackeled the question. Instead everybody jumped on the weight/height thread.  But really this is just too weird for the buckle to come completely off. Someone said it cost him around 30 seconds directly (Mentaly maybe more).  How much time did he lose by again? Rob Atlanta

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –Does anyone know how Zack’s helmet buckle came undone?  I guess it would be possible for it to come undone, sort of a freak occurance.  But, I’ve never had that happen in ten years of riding.  Is there any chance that it was tampered with? This crossed my mind too, yet no one has tackeled the question. Instead everybody jumped on the weight/height thread.  But really this is just too weird for the buckle to come completely off. Someone said it cost him around 30 seconds directly (Mentaly maybe more).  How much time did he lose by again? Rob Atlanta

If you look at the tape, it appears he lost about 1 minute 30 sec in the transition.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –Does anyone know how much Zack weighs?  He looked like a linebacker compared to Hellreigel, and I find that particularly inspiring. he isn’t nearly as big as the camera makes him look.  cameras add a lot of weight to people.  hellreigel isn’t big at all maybe just a tad heavier than bustos, and actually thinner than bustos.  welch is 130, bustos 138, hellreigel around 150, jurgen is about 155 lb.   now if you want linebacker that’s spencer smith.  175 lb. and probably 5% fat.  he’ll do ironman next year and the difference between spencer and the rest of the field will be strident. qrman

How tall are all of these guys?  I met Wendy Ingraham at Mrs T’s and she seemed to tower over me (5′7"), and Michellie Jones seemed even taller though I never got tried to get closer and find out.  I’ve heard that the males are all pretty short, and the few that I talked to at Schu’s makes me believe this to be true.  It’s pretty surprising to me, as cycling seems the only sport of the three in which being small is an advantage.  Indeed, it seems that all the good college swimmers and runners I know are at least 5′10 or better (men, that is).  Swimmers tend to be taller than that it seems.  What is the deal on size, QRman?  Inquiring minds want to know. joel falk Northwestern University, Evanston, IL.  USA

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Maybe we should all just be thankful that they did not show the false start..   Wheew! kse

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How tall are all of these guys?

jurgen 5"10, spencer 5′11", hellreigel 5′10" or so, bustos 5′8", welch 5′7".  interestingly, though, the big four, tinley, scott, allen, molina, were all within 1" and 3 lb. of each other, roughly 6′0" and 160 lb. qrman

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Jurgen is more like 173 #, per his interview in Triathlete

he fluctuates alot, as does spencer.  spencer goes up to 190 in the off season and down to 170.  jurgen is not usually as heavy as 173, he can get pretty lean.  but 155 is really his leanest.  he swims in our MS, and there is no way he could squeeze into it at 173. qrman

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congratulations to David Yates, Sharron Ackles and the rest of the World Triathlon Corporation’s staff for the excellent work they have done on the NBC broadcast. Although in the hours and days to come, many viewers will offer their critiques in both a positive and negative light, it must be said that this network broadcast alone brings immeasurable positive awareness of triathlon to the general public both in the USA and internationally. Further, there is considerable risk taking in this venture. The WTC pays for the production of the show and the air time. If they are not successful in selling ad space, they eat the loss. Efforts toward including television as part of a race package are an expensive necessity (as evidenced by ITU’s efforts with Fox Sports) to acquaint the masses to triathlon, and we at USA Triathlon thank WTC and all of the other race organizations that have made  television a part of their events. Steve Locke USA Triathlon  

"Magnificent"?????? Steve, I, too, am grateful to WTC for their efforts, but I cannot agree with your hyperbolic use of the term "magnificent" to describe the broadcast.  I suspect that even those on the newsgroup here who said that they truly liked the show would be hard-pressed to agree with that term.   However, if you truly thought it was "magnificent", I’m glad for you that you enjoyed it so much.   In the end, for all of our fussing and blustering on the newsgroup, it’s all nothing more than a collection of individual opinions regarding the broadcast. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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–Does anyone know how much Zack weighs?  He looked like a linebacker compared to Hellreigel, and I find that particularly inspiring. he isn’t nearly as big as the camera makes him look.  cameras add a lot of weight to people.  hellreigel isn’t big at all maybe just a tad heavier than bustos, and actually thinner than bustos.  welch is 130, bustos 138, hellreigel around 150, jurgen is about 155 lb.

Jurgen is more like 173 #, per his interview in Triathlete (unless he has lost a significant amount of weight in the last few months). Hellriegel is about 154 #, and in his recent Triathlete interview, he says he recently dropped his body fat from 10% to 6%, but his weight stayed the same. (so that must be the secret : Goo bullets and 500/miles a week on the bike!) — Regards, Matt Pope NOTE: If using the "reply to" feature , remove "NOSPAM" from my e-mail address.

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–Does anyone know how much Zack weighs?  He looked like a linebacker compared to Hellreigel, and I find that particularly inspiring. he isn’t nearly as big as the camera makes him look.  cameras add a lot of weight to people.  hellreigel isn’t big at all maybe just a tad heavier than bustos, and actually thinner than bustos.  welch is 130, bustos 138, hellreigel around 150, jurgen is about 155 lb.  

        Also, you are looking at one triathlete next to another.  If you saw these guys next to an AMerican football player, they would not look so imposing. now if you want linebacker that’s spencer smith.  175 lb. and probably 5% fat.  he’ll do ironman next year and the difference between spencer and the rest of the field will be strident. qrman

        175???  He would be small for a defensive back.

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:  Flame on. :  Mark : Doubt you’ll get much of that, as I think most of us here will agree with : almost all of what you said.  I, too, was disappointed by the broadcast, and : I’m not a chronic complainer–I have had mostly positive thoughts about the : broadcast for the last few years.  Not this year! : I’ll add to the list of problems and good things: : Problems: : –Alexandra Paul segment. == SNIP == : –I’ll second the negative thoughts on the Bob Jordan piece. == SNIP == : –Relatively minimal coverage of John Maclean. == SNIP == : –Mark Allen’s metaphysical musings == SNIP == == BIG SNIP == : –Steve Gregg           It seems as though many folks are mainly interested in the outcome of the Ironman race; how the race unfolded and the ultimate result.  In my opinion, the accompanying stories and commentary are extremely valuable; they help the viewer better understand the sport of triathlon and the constitution of its participants. The Bob Jordan piece – How does one deal with a personally devastating loss and the accept the gift of a dying child? "Be strong Bob Jordan.  Be an Ironman.". The Alexandra Paul piece – What does one learn throughout the process of training for and completing the Ironman? "If I can do Ironman, I can do anything.".  Life’s hurdles and pitfalls by comparison are a piece of cake. The handicapped triathletes – A brief scene shows a triathlete with only one leg pedaling a bike like you and I ride (can you imagine doing that for 112 miles!).  What goes through the mind of such people whom our society labels handicapped?  "Don’t tell me what I can’t do.  Let me show you what I can do.". These stories reveal our character and demonstrate the triumph of the human spirit.  And that my friends, is the essence of an Ironman. Take care, and live life to the fullest. Charlie Leu

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I enjoyed the IHM show. It wasn’t one of the best, was far from the worst. My favorites: — They didn’t miss any passes, as they did a few years ago when the cameras covering the women’s race broke. — I, too, thought the time spent watching Jurgen Zack twist in the wind while the clock ran and his helmet didn’t work was very, very compelling. I felt like running out to the garage and getting my helmet and handing it to him. "Here Jurgen, take mine! Get going, bud!" — The Welch/Ingraham finish was very tastefully done. I loved seeing Wendy reach out to Sian at the very end. Hearing Greg Welch’s encouraging comments to Sian as he carried her off – "You did fantastic!" provided reality to the scene. Seeing Wendy’s smile just moments after the finish helped ease the pain of seeing her and Sian in such a mess. — The camera work on the swim, sort of going up and down, was very effective. — I personally like the film and filters rather than videotape. I think this is a grand production, not a sporting event, and deserves that treatment. — There were some very good full-body, full-bike shots of the riders. Jurgen’s rear wheel was mesmerizing. Wendy’s riding position seemed more flat and less arched (her back, that is) than in the past. Did she make a change? — Hard to mess up the ending shots of age group finishers, and they didn’t. What impresses me is how incredible some of these folks are. They are astoundingly fit, and finishing for the most part in good shape. If the average finishers in this race can be called average triathletes, than I am, uh, well, a slug. — Catching the scene where the course official calls in "Paula Newby wants to withdraw" was great. "What?" asked the person on the other end of the radio, unbelieving. Good stuff. — I liked the Alexandra Paul segment. You can’t do a "serious" interview with her. She is a bright, engaging woman, but she is basically a newbie. She didn’t seem to have any particular insights to give any magazine interviewer, and I suspect she didn’t have much to say to the TV folks either. That isn’t criticism of her. She is a normal person, not a Mark Allen zen-master. The fun segment was just about right. Things I didn’t like: — I love Paula NF. She’s the greatest thing to hit the sport since the Man. But why oh why do they have to harp on her over and over and over? I get the point. Even the casual observer gets the point. I’ll probably not get many people agreeing with me here, but I would have liked to see a little less of Paula, and a little more of the others (Lori Bowden needed more air time.) — The have all the advantages in the world of post-production. Why not mention Heather Fuhr in more detail before she shows up out of nowhere on the run? I realize they didn’t have footage of her since there were no cameras on her on the bike, but hasn’t anyone heard of foreshadowing? Failing to introduce her early in the day ruins the narrative. At the end, you have set up Paula, then she DNFs and you have to pick up the Heather story suddenly. — The Wendy badmouthing was unnecessary. It isn’t like she’s some bozo who has never done anything. Hell, she is a lot more successful than Wolfgang Dietrich. Yet, all they can talk about is how its a sure bet that she’ll get reeled in. How about – she had a record breaking swim, she’s having the ride of her life. Could this be her day? Instead, we are left with the impression, right from the swim exit, that she hasn’t got a chance. She had a damn good chance. Had the best day of her life, final wobble included. — The same is true for Zack. This guy is an icon in the sport, a great character. His failure to win this year, clearly his best chance ever, hurts anyone who has followed his career. Still, he had a great, great day. His best swim ever. After the amazing scene at T1, he had a powerful ride – vintage Zack. He finally proved at Roth that he can run. But the narrator talks of Zack as if he had no chance win. In this case, too much foreshadowing. Sure, Hellriegel was always the best bet to win, but Jurgen finished only a few minutes back. Why play down what he accomplished? — I watched the telecast on tape. I had to fast-forward through the "butterfly" segment. I read it in a magazine. Couldn’t bear to sit through it again. Final thoughts: — Prior years Hellreigel looked like a giant compared to Welch and Allen. This year he looked downright petite dealing with Jurgen. Perspective is all. — It never fails. I watch the show, I want to train. Still, I had pizza last night Brian Sullivan

Response:

Congratulations to David Yates, Sharron Ackles and the rest of the World Triathlon Corporation’s staff for the excellent work they have done on the NBC broadcast. Although in the hours and days to come, many viewers will offer their critiques in both a positive and negative light, it must be said that this network broadcast alone brings immeasurable positive awareness of triathlon to the general public both in the USA and internationally. Further, there is considerable risk taking in this venture. The WTC pays for the production of the show and the air time. If they are not successful in selling ad space, they eat the loss. Efforts toward including television as part of a race package are an expensive necessity (as evidenced by ITU’s efforts with Fox Sports) to acquaint the masses to triathlon, and we at USA Triathlon thank WTC and all of the other race organizations that have made  television a part of their events. Steve Locke USA Triathlon  

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I agree. Nice job. Beautiful photography. Mark Allen was cast in a good role this year also. His explanations and demonstrations were exactly what he needed to be doing. Being a triathlete is what he is not a media commentator.  Now if Alan

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I love this race and I love the sport, but this wasn’t a great telecast..and I’ve seen almost all of them.  I’ll probably be hammered for all of the following, but here goes:  Problems: -The whole thing looked like it was shot with a grainy, tangerine filter.  As my SO said…"it looks like a 70’s porno film." Whatever happened to the use of videotape????? The clarity and immediacy is much better than this technique.  Art-y to be sure, but the race needs a crisp, clear, sharp presentation. -Very poor script/narration.  I played it again…listen to it!!!  The "negative/no"   messages outnumber the positives 2 to 1! If I taught using those same kind of verbal cues, the kids would be damn discouraged. Trautwig is the wrong guy. -The length of  the segment on Bob Jacobs and his daughter was a literal turn-off.  I appreciate his enormous loss, but I have come to agree with Ruth K. on this…it is wrong to mix the loss of a child with running in a race.  It almost felt exploitive.   -The soundtrack was, much like two years ago, harsh and almost spooky sounding.  It had to leave the casual viewer wondering what kind of freak show WAS this? -Someone once wrote that this race made the men more noble and strong appearing while making the women look drained and washed away.  With the exception of Heather Fuhr (and Alexandra Paul!) I’d have to agree.  We all know the price paid by Paula and Wendy and Sian and I am a fan of them all.  But I don’t know how well they were served by today’s show. -Age-group coverage? What age-groups? Good stuff: -Mark Allen was uniquely and appropriately used.  His segments made for decent transition points in the broadcast. -Good look at Zack’s torment in the swim-bike transition….must’ve been killing him standing there. -The Julie Moss segment gave a nice historical perspective on her importance to the sport.  I am glad she had a good race. I know it’s tough to produce this show. I appreciate the effort. I’m glad it’s on the air.  But if I was looking at this with relatively new eyes, I wouldn’t have been inspired by this telecast one bit. And after all isn’t that the point???? Flame on. Mark  

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 Flame on.  Mark

Doubt you’ll get much of that, as I think most of us here will agree with almost all of what you said.  I, too, was disappointed by the broadcast, and I’m not a chronic complainer–I have had mostly positive thoughts about the broadcast for the last few years.  Not this year! I’ll add to the list of problems and good things: Problems: –Alexandra Paul segment.  I fully understand the need for NBC to appeal to the non-athletes in the audience, but was there really ANYONE out there who thought that segment was the least bit clever or funny?  I would have liked to hear a serious interview with her, but what was actually presented was a complete waste of air space. –I’ll second the negative thoughts on the Bob Jordan piece.  About halfway through I started banging my head against the couch, wondering if it was ever going to end.  The butterfly shtick was ridiculous.  I thought this set a new low for NBC useless "human interest" pieces, and that’s saying something.   –The constant badmouthing of Peter Reid.  What’s up with that??? –Relatively minimal coverage of John Maclean.  To me this is a much more compelling human interest story than either Alexandra Paul or Bob Jordan, yet it seemed to be tossed into the broadcast at the last minute in a very disconnected and confusing way. –Mark Allen’s metaphysical musings don’t hold much interest for me, sorry. How about more race coverage instead?  Allen got more coverage than all but a handful of the actual athletes.     Good things: –I agree that getting to see Jurgen Zack yelling about his helmet was the best part of the entire telecast.  Would it really be that hard for NBC to find more stuff like that to show? –The Welch/Ingraham crawl-off was tastefully presented.  After hearing so much about it for the past few months, I was expecting to see something horrible, but I found it compelling and interesting.  It struck me (and the general public too, I hope) as just two very competitive, highly conditioned athletes trying to cross the finish line as best they could.  No problems here.   –On the other hand, I assume the short clips they showed at the very beginning of the telecast were of Chris Legh flailing around, and that looked awful.  I was glad NBC chose not to show any more of that.  Seeing that in detail would have left a bad taste in the mouth. My .02 –Steve Gregg          

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Steve Gregg wrote :: The Welch/Ingraham crawl-off was tastefully presented. <<

I’m just a marathon runner and have crossed the finish line in both great and horrible shape (different races of course). The sight of these two elite athletes crawling across the finish line reduced me to tears – just incredible footage. I also love watching the "slower" runners finishing – more tears<g Mick Evans

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Steve Gregg wrote :: The Welch/Ingraham crawl-off was tastefully presented. << I’m just a marathon runner and have crossed the finish line in both great and horrible shape (different races of course). The sight of these two elite athletes crawling across the finish line reduced me to tears – just incredible footage.

And people exult in the performances of so-called pro athletes. I’ll take the determination and spirit theses two marvelous athletes displayed any day over whinny over paid thugs. I also love watching the "slower" runners finishing – more tears<g

Amazing how many of them jumped across the finish in sheer joy at having just finished. p.s. You shouldn’t ‘apologize’ for being "just a marathon runner"! — Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS* Trails of The Diablo Valley           *Running – Hiking – Nature*             http://travel.to/diablo-valley-trails

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That was TONS better than watching "It’s a Wonderful Life", and way more inspiring.

I wouldn’t go quite that far.  Don’t mess with Jimmy Stewart, man. A few questions: –Does anyone know how Zack’s helmet buckle came undone?  I guess it would be possible for it to come undone, sort of a freak occurance.  But, I’ve never had that happen in ten years of riding.  Is there any chance that it was tampered with?  Anyway, I’m sure that Jurgen will double check his lid at every other race he ever does. I found it mildly amusing at how upset he became during the delay.  When you compare his behavior to Luc VanLierde’s coolness in the penalty box in 1996, Zack’s ranting and raving seemed a little out of place.  Still, it was outstanding footage and among the highlights of the show. –Does anyone know how much Zack weighs?  He looked like a linebacker compared to Hellreigel, and I find that particularly inspiring.  It kind of sucks the way Al Trautwig focused on Zack’s demise, instead of accentuating his amazing race and his best finish ever at IMH. –While the footage of Wendy and Sian crawling was dramatic as hell, I found it "convenient" how the broadcast failed to comment on the state that Chris Legh’s body was in after his collapse and the serious nature of the resulting complications. –Every year, it remains completely refreshing to see our sport on network television, shown at the same time as the NFL.   Dave Radomski Springfield, VA, USA

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–Does anyone know how much Zack weighs?  He looked like a linebacker compared to Hellreigel, and I find that particularly inspiring.

he isn’t nearly as big as the camera makes him look.  cameras add a lot of weight to people.  hellreigel isn’t big at all maybe just a tad heavier than bustos, and actually thinner than bustos.  welch is 130, bustos 138, hellreigel around 150, jurgen is about 155 lb.   now if you want linebacker that’s spencer smith.  175 lb. and probably 5% fat.  he’ll do ironman next year and the difference between spencer and the rest of the field will be strident. qrman

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I liked the broadcast, but definetly didn’t love it.  My major complaint is that very little of the actual race was shown.  I want a little more of race itself, from the pros to the age groupers to the handicapped athletes.  I like the human interest stories, but between Bob Jordan, Alexandra Paul,  Mark Allen’s comments, the pre-race info and the commercials, I doubt if there is actually 45 minutes of true race coverage!  -Very poor script/narration.  I played it again…listen to it!!! I agree, it seems they were trying to be just a little too cute. -The length of  the segment on Bob Jacobs and his daughter was a literal turn-off.  I appreciate his enormous loss, but…

I agree.  My condolences to him and his family, but I think it was just too long. The story could have been shortened, which would allow for more race coverage, and even another age group story. -Age-group coverage? What age-groups?

Good question. Good stuff: -Mark Allen was uniquely and appropriately used.  His segments made for decent transition points in the broadcast. -Good look at Zack’s torment in the swim-bike transition….must’ve been killing him standing there

I think this might have been the best part of the broadcast.  I wanted to hand him a helmet through the TV screen! -The Julie Moss segment gave a nice historical perspective on her importance to the sport.  I am glad she had a good race.

This segment was also well done.  Not too melodramatic, although the shots of her in the pool with the little one was getting close. — Eric  Weiss GFT 97 – Completed IMC 98 – Considering

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I had a room full of people for an Ironman viewing-tree-trimming-buffet party (non-athletes and athletes, Jeff Devlin included) and I was embarassed by the coverage.  I could not believe how  inane the coverage was. "Magnificent" it surely was not. "Puke" is the best word. Sorry folks I’ve watched 12 yrs of Ironman races because that’s how many times I’ve done it (that’s not a boast). My point…I want so much to enjoy the coverage and relive the experience but it doesn’t happen.  The essence of the sport is lost in the quadmire of human interest stories, plus  the coverage doesn’t depict us as athletes. Didn’t they  use the term "holy grail"?   Please.     Lesley I did enjoy seeing shots of the Island.

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Funny, all the things you disliked, were the very things I liked! says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I love this race and I love the sport, but this wasn’t a great telecast..and I’ve seen almost all of them.  I’ll probably be hammered for all of the following, but here goes: Problems: -The whole thing looked like it was shot with a grainy, tangerine filter.  As my SO said…"it looks like a 70’s porno film." Whatever happened to the use of videotape????? The clarity and immediacy is much better than this technique.  Art-y to be sure, but the race needs a crisp, clear, sharp presentation. -Very poor script/narration.  I played it again…listen to it!!!  The "negative/no"   messages outnumber the positives 2 to 1! If I taught using those same kind of verbal cues, the kids would be damn discouraged. Trautwig is the wrong guy. -The length of  the segment on Bob Jacobs and his daughter was a literal turn-off.  I appreciate his enormous loss, but I have come to agree with Ruth K. on this…it is wrong to mix the loss of a child with running in a race.   It almost felt exploitive.   -The soundtrack was, much like two years ago, harsh and almost spooky sounding. It had to leave the casual viewer wondering what kind of freak show WAS this? -Someone once wrote that this race made the men more noble and strong appearing while making the women look drained and washed away.  With the exception of Heather Fuhr (and Alexandra Paul!) I’d have to agree.  We all know the price paid by Paula and Wendy and Sian and I am a fan of them all.  But I don’t know how well they were served by today’s show. -Age-group coverage? What age-groups? Good stuff: -Mark Allen was uniquely and appropriately used.  His segments made for decent transition points in the broadcast. -Good look at Zack’s torment in the swim-bike transition….must’ve been killing him standing there. -The Julie Moss segment gave a nice historical perspective on her importance to the sport.  I am glad she had a good race. I know it’s tough to produce this show. I appreciate the effort. I’m glad it’s on the air.  But if I was looking at this with relatively new eyes, I wouldn’t have been inspired by this telecast one bit. And after all isn’t that the point???? Flame on. Mark  

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The staging of the annual Ironman World Triathlon Championships is a multi-faceted and extremely complex event.  In my brief exposure to Ironman in the capacity of Draft Marshall, I have been overwhelmed and impressed by the massive preparation, logistics, support and subsequent participation and competition by the volunteers, race organization and competitors. I would imagine comprehension of this event is limited to a minuscule element of the poplulation,in relaton to the mainstream.  NBC Sports is attempting to bring a relatively misunderstood, grand-scale event, to millions, during a prime time slot.  In order to capture the interest of said mainstream, some broad interest "hooks" are dubiously employed. Granted, those of us who participate, at a serious level (and not-so-serious) in our sport, abhor the ‘evident prostitution’ of something so sacred.  Personally, I truly believe that WTC, NBC, and all the peripheral contributing organizations and individuals, are attempting to discover a way to bolster the respect given our sport. Each year, those of us who participate at various levels in the Ironman Hawaii event, wait breathlessly to see how the Race of Races will be presented. Criticisms aside (and I do agree with much of the banter presented here) it remains a special and moving telecast. And besides, it’s always entertaining to see what spouses have to say to one another at their annual visitation at the finish line. Merry Christmas everyone !! Congratulations to David Yates, Sharron Ackles and the rest of the

WorldTriathlon Corporation’s staff for the excellent work they have done on the NBCbroadcast. broadcast alone brings immeasurable positive awareness of triathlon

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Oh man you aren’t kidding. I was supposed to go to an IM party but decided to multitask by wrapping presents/watching IM instead. I’m really glad because I was crying throughout the entire last 50 minutes of the show. It was wonderful. I had a great time, and am completely inspired. I was actually bawling near the end, and was glad I was alone. I can’t wait to do it (1999), and every last one of you Ironmen out there has my complete admiration. You are incredible, incredible, incredible. That was TONS better than watching "It’s a Wonderful Life", and way more inspiring. NOW I feel like I’m in the Christmas mood! Merry Merry. You’re all simply incredible Mike Schwing says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Congratulations to David Yates, Sharron Ackles and the rest of the World Triathlon Corporation’s staff for the excellent work they have done on the NBC broadcast. Although in the hours and days to come, many viewers will offer their critiques in both a positive and negative light, it must be said that this network broadcast alone brings immeasurable positive awareness of triathlon to the general public both in the USA and internationally. Further, there is considerable risk taking in this venture. The WTC pays for the production of the show and the air time. If they are not successful in selling ad space, they eat the loss. Efforts toward including television as part of a race package are an expensive necessity (as evidenced by ITU’s efforts with Fox Sports) to acquaint the masses to triathlon, and we at USA Triathlon thank WTC and all of the other race organizations that have made  television a part of their events. Steve Locke USA Triathlon  

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