Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Joseph" <electronicmedia.nospam…@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:ukr9p4bml8sd03@corp.supernews.com>… > Hello all, > I have a general question about creative minds as they relate to > mathematics and science and certain professions.  It seems these professions > in general tend to attract the shybies and introverts more so than others. > Are most mathematicians and those interested in > and good in > the science subjects less creative than say poets/writers, etc.  I find > myself highly uncreative when it comes to writing things like poems, > stories, doing drawings or paintings in general.  However, I find that I do > better in subjects such as mathematics.  Is this a common case that > math/logic type people are less creative in the arts and the more creative > individuals > in arts aren’t math-oriented?  Which area do most of you find  yourselves in > or do you find yourself in the middle? > Joe

Hi Joe, I am very good at math/logic/science, and enjoy working on problems in any of these areas. One of the things that motivates me most is a challenge, so I loved solving tough math and science problems in school, and I love taking on tough projects at work. I’m an electronics engineer by profession, and I get to use a decent amount of math in my job. Still not nearly enough for my pleasure, if you ask me, but that’s what you get when you specialize in circuit design instead of becoming a math professor About art, I don’t have any particular talent for (and frankly, I don’t much enjoy) poetry, paintings/drawings, sculptures etc. I guess my brain’s just not wired that way. However, I love reading and writing. In terms of reading, I read mainly fiction but I like nonfiction a lot too. In terms of writing, I used to enjoy my English classes in high school (next only to math and science), because they would give me an opportunity for creative writing (and reading some classic novels too). I haven’t done any non-tecnical writing recently, but now that I’m posting to a.s.s., it’s all coming back to me Getting to do some non-technical writing is one more benefit I get out of posting to this group, I guess. My posts here aren’t exactly "creative writing" since for the most part I’m writing about my own life and problems (or those of the other people here), but putting my thoughts into the right combinations of words, phrases and sentences so that I get my message across clearly to the a.s.s. reading public (and so that my posts also have some entertainment value to the readers, when appropriate) is somewhat enjoyable to me. I don’t know if I would call scientists/mathematicians/engineers less creative than artists though, maybe it’s just a different type of creativity. But anyway, I wouldn’t put myself in the middle, I’m definitely skewed way over to the left (the math/science side). I wish I was an artist though, I would probably have girls lining up to pose nude for my drawings/paintings or to get me to write poems about them. Oh well, I’ll have to learn to work with what I’ve got, I guess. Maybe I could teach them how to design ICs. Yep, that’ll bring the babes running to me  On second thought,

Response:

"Kali" <ka…@hotpop.com_REMOVE> wrote in message

<news:ukrs20191svf24@corp.supernews.com>… > I think you’ve got some misconceptions about what creativity is. > Math and science are extremely creative and intuitive.  You can’t > really understand math and science unless you have an incredible > ability to see and experience and visualize.  The same sense of > imagination and wonder that can be applied to the arts can also > be channeled into math.  The difference is more one of interest > than anything else.

This is an excellent response to Joseph’s post. Virgo Cluster

Response:

On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Joseph wrote:

|Hello all, | |I have a general question about creative minds as they relate to |mathematics and science and certain professions.  It seems these professions |in general tend to attract the shybies and introverts more so than others. The old arts-versus-science debate. Er, you’re in college aint ya Joe? |Are most mathematicians and those interested in and good in the science |subjects less creative than say poets/writers, etc.? I find myself highly |uncreative when it comes to writing things like poems, stories, |doing drawings or paintings in general.  However, I find that I do |better in subjects such as mathematics. Some pionts to know: * Many astronomers and engineers will tell you they’ve been inspired by Star Trek. * Remember what was Theodore Kaczinsky’s occupation? * Everytime someone goes ballistic, his friends/neighbors always say "But Jimmy was such a nice boy. He was the quiet one. Never hurt a fly" |  Is this a common case that |math/logic type people are less creative in the arts and the more |creative individuals in arts aren’t math-oriented?  Which area do most of |you find  yourselves in or do you find yourself in the middle? That seems to me an oversimplification of creative minds and scientific minds. But, I hate math. Was stuck with a math teacher who was also a triathlete for about a year, if only he knew it was pure hell for me. I don’t know how to write a poem, but I have at least one story somewhere and as you can see I *luv* to write. As for the arts…. ::looking towards Kitz:: :-0 — S.O. <<—shuddering about what the guy below likes for art "I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds" -J. Robert Oppenheimer

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"Silent Observer <sul…@SPAMBLOCKhgea.net>" <sul…@hgea01.hgea.org> wrote in message news:Pine.SOL.3.95.1020808163622.6420C-100000@hgea01.hgea.org… > On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Joseph wrote: > |Hello all, > | > |I have a general question about creative minds as they relate to > |mathematics and science and certain professions.  It seems these professions > |in general tend to attract the shybies and introverts more so than others. > The old arts-versus-science debate. Er, you’re in college aint ya Joe?

Very intuitive, Sullen, I am in college.  How’d you know? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> |Are most mathematicians and those interested in and good in the science > |subjects less creative than say poets/writers, etc.? I find myself highly > |uncreative when it comes to writing things like poems, stories, > |doing drawings or paintings in general.  However, I find that I do > |better in subjects such as mathematics. > Some pionts to know: > * Many astronomers and engineers will tell you they’ve been inspired by > Star Trek. > * Remember what was Theodore Kaczinsky’s occupation? > * Everytime someone goes ballistic, his friends/neighbors always say "But > Jimmy was such a nice boy. He was the quiet one. Never hurt a fly" > |  Is this a common case that > |math/logic type people are less creative in the arts and the more > |creative individuals in arts aren’t math-oriented?  Which area do most of > |you find  yourselves in or do you find yourself in the middle? > That seems to me an oversimplification of creative minds and scientific > minds. But, I hate math. Was stuck with a math teacher who was also a > triathlete for about a year, if only he knew it was pure hell for me. I > don’t know how to write a poem, but I have at least one story somewhere > and as you can see I *luv* to write.

yeah, from all the posts I’ve read, it does seem to be an oversimplification.  I crossposted this to sci.math, and interestingly, got varied responses, including a lot of creative people interested in music, but can’t necessarily make their own.  Anyhow, thanks for your response. > As for the arts…. ::looking towards Kitz:: :-0 > — > S.O. <<—shuddering about what the guy below likes for art > "I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds" -J. Robert Oppenheimer

Joe

Response:

>* Remember what was Theodore Kaczinsky’s occupation? >* Everytime someone goes ballistic, his friends/neighbors always say "But >Jimmy was such a nice boy. He was the quiet one. Never hurt a fly"

Either that, or "Oh yeah, those two Columbine boys used to blow up small animals for fun."

Response:

Hello all, I have a general question about creative minds as they relate to mathematics and science and certain professions.  It seems these professions in general tend to attract the shybies and introverts more so than others. Are most mathematicians and those interested in and good in the science subjects less creative than say poets/writers, etc.  I find myself highly uncreative when it comes to writing things like poems, stories, doing drawings or paintings in general.  However, I find that I do better in subjects such as mathematics.  Is this a common case that math/logic type people are less creative in the arts and the more creative individuals in arts aren’t math-oriented?  Which area do most of you find  yourselves in or do you find yourself in the middle? Joe

Response:

On Sun, 4 Aug 2002 18:15:14 -0400, "Joseph" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<electronicmedia.nospam…@yahoo.com> wrote: >Hello all, >I have a general question about creative minds as they relate to >mathematics and science and certain professions.  It seems these professions >in general tend to attract the shybies and introverts more so than others. >Are most mathematicians and those interested in >and good in >the science subjects less creative than say poets/writers, etc.  I find >myself highly uncreative when it comes to writing things like poems, >stories, doing drawings or paintings in general.  However, I find that I do >better in subjects such as mathematics.  Is this a common case that >math/logic type people are less creative in the arts and the more creative >individuals >in arts aren’t math-oriented?  Which area do most of you find  yourselves in >or do you find yourself in the middle? >Joe

Ah, the great romantic/classic divide, explored in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence." I don’t think it really exists. People have different skills in different areas, but I don’t think it can be neatly divided into creative vs logical types.  I think you need a lot of imagination to comprehend complex mathematical ideas and I think you need to be very logical and methodical to write a novel. Consequently I  don’t think shy people necesarily fall into one or the other. I’m sure there’ve been plenty of shy artists as well as plenty of shy scientists.

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I used to draw a lot.  sort of well; people would consider me artistic. But I always felt myself lacking in the *creativity* department. Just last year I was tutoring peers for the final exam in a college chem class I was in (the ‘best’ students had choice of taking the final, or skipping it but putting in tutoring time). But my current mediocrity in a college physics class I’m taking leads me to believe I’m equally bad at both arts and sciences. Joseph <electronicmedia.nospam…@yahoo.com> wrote:

: Hello all, : I have a general question about creative minds as they relate to : mathematics and science and certain professions.  It seems these professions : in general tend to attract the shybies and introverts more so than others. : Are most mathematicians and those interested in : and good in : the science subjects less creative than say poets/writers, etc.  I find : myself highly uncreative when it comes to writing things like poems, : stories, doing drawings or paintings in general.  However, I find that I do : better in subjects such as mathematics.  Is this a common case that : math/logic type people are less creative in the arts and the more creative : individuals : in arts aren’t math-oriented?  Which area do most of you find  yourselves in : or do you find yourself in the middle? : Joe

Response:

"Joseph" <electronicmedia.nospam…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ukr9p4bml8sd03@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all, > I have a general question about creative minds as they relate to > mathematics and science and certain professions.  It seems these professions > in general tend to attract the shybies and introverts more so than others. > Are most mathematicians and those interested in > and good in > the science subjects less creative than say poets/writers, etc.  I find > myself highly uncreative when it comes to writing things like poems, > stories, doing drawings or paintings in general.  However, I find that I do > better in subjects such as mathematics.  Is this a common case that > math/logic type people are less creative in the arts and the more creative > individuals > in arts aren’t math-oriented?  Which area do most of you find  yourselves in > or do you find yourself in the middle?

I think you’ve got some misconceptions about what creativity is.  Math and science are extremely creative and intuitive.  You can’t really understand math and science unless you have an incredible ability to see and experience and visualize.  The same sense of imagination and wonder that can be applied to the arts can also be channeled into math.  The difference is more one of interest than anything else.

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Question:

Hello all.  I’ll be going to Kona in a few short weeks to race there for the very first time.  It’s the realization of a dream for me……I still can hardly believe it’s REALLY going to happen!.  Training wise, I’m in pretty good shape.   This will be my 3rd IM this year, with Cal in May and LP in July.  However, I was wondering if any of you have any recommendations about the course itself, or recommendations on things in and around Kona that would help me and my family maximize our enjoyment Thanks. Al

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Congratulations on making it to Hawaii, here are some things that made my time on the Big Island enjoyable. Sightseeing…I have a few favorites. Take a trip toward Hilo to see the tropical botanical gardens. That is the green side of the Island so enjoy it. Eat dinner in Hilo before you drive back. Another day trip is to Volcanoes National Park. It’s absolutely breathtaking. While you are over there, go to the Place of Refuge. Another day trip is to drive up the Queen K and see the Lapahki fishing village and the birthplace of King K. One more day trip is to go up to the Parker Ranch and tour his art museum. Everything is very expensive so get used to shopping at the Costco for all your needs. I enjoyed seeing all the world-class athletes shopping on Alii Drive during the 2 weeks prior.  I also had the pleasure of getting some of the all-time greats to sign my poster which they had at the shopping center. I would get down to "dig-me" beach at the pier every morning to loosen up with a swim.  It’s a must see each and every morning to get the feel of the energy surrounding Ironman.  They put the buoys out so you could actually do the swim course. There are some races surrounding Ironman, a 5K the week before and an underpants race that is very funny. You shouldn’t miss the parade the day before the event.  There will be a schedule floating around. I don’t remember the restaurants but after 2 weeks there wasn’t anywhere I didn’t eat.  The ones I like I returned to.  There was a concert for Ironman that the locals went to also which was fun.  I ran into an old friend from San Francisco. For spectators on race day I recommend standing on Alii Drive near Uncle Billy’s Hotel so you can see both the runners and the bikers and still be in walking distance when the first finisher comes along.  You won’t be allowed out on the course with a car so plan on walking for your race watching. I recommend standing in the bleachers to see the winner. Make sure you make it to the finish line at midnight to see the last finisher. And last but not least make sure you buy a few souvenirs. Have fun and good luck! — Chris Davis "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one’s courage" –Anais Nin http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all.  I’ll be going to Kona in a few short weeks to race there for the very first time.  It’s the realization of a dream for me……I still can hardly believe it’s REALLY going to happen!.  Training wise, I’m in pretty good shape.   This will be my 3rd IM this year, with Cal in May and LP in July.  However, I was wondering if any of you have any recommendations about the course itself, or recommendations on things in and around Kona that would help me and my family maximize our enjoyment Thanks. Al

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Question:

Could anyone help me to find any triathlon shops in New York City or around it(I live just outside the city).  I am lookind to buy a bike for not more than $1000, whether it be good new or a good used one.  I have no idea what to get so I could use all your help. Thanks Matt(Please email me, thanks)

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Could anyone help me to find any triathlon shops in New York City or around it(I live just outside the city).  I am lookind to buy a bike for not more than $1000, whether it be good new or a good used one.  I have no idea what to get so I could use all your help. Thanks Matt(Please email me, thanks)

You could try R & A Cycles in South Brooklyn. I’ve gone there a couple of times to make some big purchases (wheels mainly) and  had no complaints. Their website is http://www.racycles.com . Good luck.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You could try R & A Cycles in South Brooklyn. I’ve gone there a couple of times to make some big purchases (wheels mainly) and  had no complaints. Their website is http://www.racycles.com . Good luck.                          |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                 "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Yes R&A is great.  Phil is a little grumpy, but smiles a little when you give him cash.   I have bought 2 bikes from them and lots of other goodies.  Best prices for high quality.  Good luck

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You could try R & A Cycles in South Brooklyn. I’ve gone there a couple of times to make some big purchases (wheels mainly) and  had no complaints. Their website is http://www.racycles.com . Good luck. Yes R&A is great.  Phil is a little grumpy, but smiles a little when you give him cash.   I have bought 2 bikes from them and lots of other goodies.  Best prices for high quality.  Good luck

I won’t deny that that shop has good prices, but I had two bad experiences there.  One was when I asked about compatibility between a shoe and pedal they carried and they gave me the wrong information — I ended up with a pair of pedals that didn’t work properly with my shoes. The second was in trying to buy a pair of shoes when the salesman insisted the shoe I wanted didn’t come in a certain color (but I had seen it in that color on a friends foot). He was either lying to get me to buy the color they had in stock or ignorant.  Nothing wrong with not knowing everything, but his firmness on what existed and did not exist was disturbing, especially considering he was wrong. I don’t know about tri-specific stuff but Gotham Bikes in lower Manhattan is a very good shop.  The various Metro Bikes are good too. JT Visit http://www.jt10000.com/ Cycling, Food and Stories

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Try Toga on West 60th and 11th Avenue. I bought my Landshark there, and they have an assortment of tri-specific bikes, including QR, Softride, Merlin, Calfee and Cervelo. Great shop; if you go there, definitely ask for Shane. -howard sol

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Question:

I was running on my treadmill eating a banana Power Bar when suddenly I was shot at by a hunter!  I felt a pain in my knee which hasn’t gone away.  Do I need a new pair of shoes?

I beleive your problem is related to weight lifting for runners, which may cause you to overheat, while wearing the latest in outdoor fabrics indoors.  I would recommend running bare foot with custom made insoles glued to your feet. Gerald T. Burrell BHK Sport Admin Executive Assistant Univ. of Windsor Students’ Alliance

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I was running on my treadmill eating a banana Power Bar when suddenly I was shot at by a hunter!  I felt a pain in my knee which hasn’t gone away.  Do I need a new pair of shoes? — Ray Charbonneau    |  Don’t you know you shouldn’t do that? MIT Library Systems|  Don’t you know you’ll stain the carpet?  *Disclaimer? Why?*|             BOSTON IN ‘96!

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says: I was running on my treadmill eating a banana Power Bar when suddenly I was shot at by a hunter!  I felt a pain in my knee which hasn’t gone away.   Do I need a new pair of shoes?

The answer simple: Run barefeet, do some weight to strengthen you shoulders, control the workload with a HRM, wear a light, and drink more chocolate flavoured vitamins rather than powerbars. The powerbar should be 40/30/30 (but that was discussed on rec.sport.triathlon already), and stay away from dope. You probably need an altogether new training scheme, which you would like to log immediately in some fanatastic superdo spreadsheet logbook programme. Watch TV, drug of the nation, whilst doing your new balanced exercise or read the running FAQ. Keep on running Wouter Wageningen Agricultural University Dept. Agrononmy Haarweg 333 6709 RZ Wageningen

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Anyone know when the applications for the NY marathon are being mailed?

Response:

Anyone know when the applications for the NY marathon are being mailed?

Applications for the 1996 NYC Marathon were mailed on May 14 to those who requested them at the Marathon Line-Up in Central Park on May 11; on May 15 to those who requested them by mail and e-mail.   So far, we have mailed out over 29,000 applications!  When you receive your application, return it asap, as we are accepting the first 8,000 from the tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT), and the first 6,000 from the rest of the states. For more information, check our website at http://www.nyrrc.org Tom Kelley, NYRRC

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I have been running for 18 years – every distance from 1 mile to ultramarathons. I’m not a competitive runner – I do it for fun (I think) – if I finish a marathon in under 4 hours, I’m happy. For years I have experienced weakness during training runs, especially when I run in the mornings but it also occurs in the evenings. It doesn’t always occur but when it does, it usually ‘kicks in’ about 10 – 15 minutes into a run. Sometimes, I’ll start out feeling great, then the problem will begin. As I have gotten older (I’m now 41) it seems to have gotten worse. I asked my doctor about it and he ran some blood tests and said I seemed okay – he just said be sure to "keep plenty of fuel in the tank."  This problem has ‘kicked in’ even when I have been eating well, even within an hour or so of a really big meal. I have learned that if I take Power Bars or Gu with me when I run, it helps – in fact, after I eat 3 or 4 packs of Gu or 1-2 Power Bars, the problem will usually go away within a few minutes – once it goes away, I can run for literally hours and it won’t return – I’ve had this happen to me many times. Even taking vitamins and mineral supplements doesn’t seem to help. It also happens in cold as well as hot weather. This is a real pain! Does anyone know what is causing this or what I can do about it? (Power Bars and Gu are getting expensive!).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been running for 18 years – every distance from 1 mile to ultramarathons. I’m not a competitive runner – I do it for fun (I think) – if I finish a marathon in under 4 hours, I’m happy. For years I have experienced weakness during training runs, especially when I run in the mornings but it also occurs in the evenings. It doesn’t always occur but when it does, it usually ‘kicks in’ about 10 – 15 minutes into a run. Sometimes, I’ll start out feeling great, then the problem will begin. As I have gotten older (I’m now 41) it seems to have gotten worse. I asked my doctor about it and he ran some blood tests and said I seemed okay – he just said be sure to "keep plenty of fuel in the tank."  This problem has ‘kicked in’ even when I have been eating well, even within an hour or so of a really big meal. I have learned that if I take Power Bars or Gu with me when I run, it helps – in fact, after I eat 3 or 4 packs of Gu or 1-2 Power Bars, the problem will usually go away within a few minutes – once it goes away, I can run for literally hours and it won’t return – I’ve had this happen to me many times. Even taking vitamins and mineral supplements doesn’t seem to help. It also happens in cold as well as hot weather. This is a real pain! Does anyone know what is causing this or what I can do about it? (Power Bars and Gu are getting expensive!).

I do have a question: did the doctor check you for diabetes? You might have the type which can be controlled by diet. It still could be the meals. When you had  this problem after a good meal, was the meal more carbs (grains/breads) or fat/proteins (burger & fries). Do you have a lot of caffeine (coffee/tea/soda)? I found for me that an excessive amount of the combination of coffee and sugar can affect me this way. Now I drink less coffee, I have it black, and I drink more water. I try to have the bagel instead of a sweetroll for breakfast. Having a sugary meal got me started, but then I would "crash" a few hours later. (This was independent of physical exertion after the meal.) A close friend of mine was having some problems like this. He experimented and finally cut out refined sugar and now drinks decaf coffee. His method was to eat only one type of food for a time and see how he felt. He now only occasionally eats sweets, and primarily sticks to fruit for satisfying the desire for a treat. It is obviously a drop in you blood sugar level, otherwise the Bars and Gu would not help. So try figuring out if it is what you eat. — Ed Prochak Magic Interface, Ltd. 440-498-3702

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Just a guess, but we all have some days that are better than others. My advice is to keep a detailed running log and look for patterns that may reveal the source of your "weakness". Good luck! Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been running for 18 years – every distance from 1 mile to ultramarathons. I’m not a competitive runner – I do it for fun (I think) – if I finish a marathon in under 4 hours, I’m happy. For years I have experienced weakness during training runs…..

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Well now I have a 3 month old daughter and I am back on the pavement again to take the weight off and make sure I can keep up with her when she gets old enough to teach her to ski and all that other stuff. Wouldn’t want her to be embarrassed at her slow, fat, and old dad!

Good for you! Congratulations on both your new daughter and your new resolve. And be sure to mix the running up with some skiing and hiking too, since you seem to enjoy those as well. Keep it fun, and it won’t become a chore. Kieran ps to those of you who replied to my groin/muscle pull query a few weeks back, thanks! After forcing myself to take a few days without any running whatsoever (days filled with strecthing and ice to boot), the thing healed up pretty fast. So I’m back to running painfree and have been for the last week and a little more. Easing back into my normal training schedule so as not to overdo it and reinjure it/incur other injuries.

Response:

I agree with everything Ted has said.  Several years ago (about 10) I was 40 years old.  I got on the scales after the holidays and was horrified to find them telling me I was fat.  I was out of shape, and it was only going to get worse.  I had been an occasional runner for a number of years, but never very serious.  So I decided to get serious about the running (up it to 20 to 30 miles a week) and watch what I ate. I just cut out the extra snacks (only the extra ones, not all of them) and tried to eat better stuff (less fat more veggies etc).  By my daughter’s high school graduation in June I had lost 40 pounds.  And I’ve managed to keep it off for these past 10 years.  Since then my mileage has increased to about 50 miles per week, but now its just because I enjoy the running so much, not to lose weight.  By the way, I’m 5′7" and now weight about 138.  When I was 178 I was not able to convince myself that I was big boned and that was a good weight for me. It can be done in a reasonable length of time and you may find that you really enjoy your new life style.  I would never go back.  I still eat the junk food, just not all the time and not as much.  I just don’t like it that much any more. Bob in Kalamazoo Lots of good stuff from Ted snipped. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Don’t let that stop you from excersing. Keep busy. Before you know it your pants     will fit a little better.  :) hope all of this helps, Ted I’m 38 years old and 50#’s overweight.  I was a dedicated athlete in H.S. and college. Running is the most practical thing for me to do to lose this weight.  The problem is i run 3x the first week, and lose total motivation because of the long road ahead.  I get bored and agitated with all the new feelings going on in my body (its not  good feelings, just a fat guy feelings) Does anybody have a success story that might motivate me to stick with it???  Please help.                                                     Tony Ted

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I’m 38 years old and 50#’s overweight.  I was a dedicated athlete in H.S. and college. Running is the most practical thing for me to do to lose this weight.  The problem is i run 3x the first week, and lose total motivation because of the long road ahead.  I get bored and agitated with all the new feelings going on in my body (its not  good feelings, just a fat guy feelings) Does anybody have a success story that might motivate me to stick with it???  Please help.                                                    Tony

Tony, Do not despair. Been there and done that. I was a former runner who endured a nearly 4 year layoff  due to a foot injury. Gained 50 lbs. Finally, after healing, I had to make a comeback – safely, and without losing motivation! I recommend three important steps be taken to get you to the goal line. 1. Get a heart rate monitor, and use it faithfully. 2. Reduce total caloric intake – and increase fiber / decrease fat in your diet. 3. When running take short, quick steps initially, until you find out what feels most effective for you. I’ll try to expand on each point, as follows; 1. I’m guessing you do not know your actual "maximum heart rate" (MHR). So, as a starting point, use 220-age = 220-38 = 182 beats per minute(BPM). This estimate is known to vary widely over a population of individuals, but is a reasonable starting point, until actual max has been determined. Using the heart rate monitor, set the range of acceptable exercising heart rate (HR) between 60-70% of max. To make the HR meaningful, determine your "resting heart rate" (RHR) before rising in the morning. For example if it is 62, then the difference between your max HR and RHR is 182-62 = 120. From the above, then 60 and 70% of MHR can be determined using the following formula:      %Max HR = RHR + (MHR-RHR)*%Effort = 62 + (182-62)*%Effort = 62 + 120*%Effort.  70%Max HR = 62 + 120*(0.7) = 62 + 84 = 146 BPM      60%Max HR =                                              134 BPM Adjust as necessary for your actual resting pulse. Now you’re ready to embark on a conditioning program. I’d suggest starting with 30 minutes of exercise 3-4 times per week, until you feel that 5 to 10 more minutes can be added (typically 2 to 4 weeks later). Start by walking until your heart rate has stabilized at a value lower than 60% of max. If it goes above 60% while walking, don’t run. Just keep walking. At some point (days, weeks, whatever) the HR will drop below 60%. If your HR stabilizes below 60%, then start a slow, low effort jog. Monitor your HR closely. When it exceeds 70%, WALK. When your HR drops to 60%, resume jogging. Repeat this sequence until the allotted time expires. If you use an out-back course, going 15 minutes out and 15 back, improvement will be easily discernable – as you begin to go further during the same time interval. The feedback is VERY helpful to help maintain motivation! The HRM is VERY important to prevent over stressing yourself while regaining physical condition. It is very hard to over-emphasize the need to come back slowly and with caution. Improvement will be rapid, initially – even though you may feel otherwise. 2. Exercising will generate some weight loss. But, reducing calories, during the same time period of  conditioning, will accelerate the process a great deal. The two processes, exercise AND diet, are mutually supportive. I can’t think of a more motivating effect. In my case, the average weight loss was 9 lbs per month for 5 months. My jogging time went from 14 minutes per mile to 9 minutes per mile (at 70% MHR). Resist the urge to measure performance based on min/mile though.  Rather, measure distance covered over a consistent running time. I.e., your own present performance vs. past performance. It’s a motivator! Diet. Increase: a)  fiber, b) fruit, c) fat free, or nearly so,                               carbohydrates.          Decrease: a) fat, esp. saturated, b) red meat, c) vending                                 machine snacks, d) total calories. For example: I reduced to a 1200-1400 calorie per day regimen. My body fat made up the difference.  Took all my snacks to the office every day. Apples, bananas, and or oranges.  Lunch was a bagel and fat free yogurt. Breakfast; Juice, cereal w/skim milk and whole wheat toast.   3) Running form: So many beginners, even those who were HS and college runners, get shin pains (often misnomered "shin splints") because they start out taking long, slow strides when jogging. It is surely better to begin with short, quick strides initially ("mincing" steps comes to mind). By that I mean, about 3 steps per second. In turn, initially, your knees and shins will be spared while you find your most efficient stride. You must not be concerned about how "fast" you go initially, but rather, how safely/efficiently. Hope this helps. I KNOW it works – at least for this case-study of 1!  Denny Anderson  To ERR is human… to ZIN, divine!

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Get out the map and look for curvy roads, weird bends and angles. I like alot of bridges, trees and creeks. One course I named the 5 bridges, looking forward to each. Another course I named "The Maze." Guess why? I take a paper with the street names until I learn the course. I charted a course running a tour past city parks. (Parks make good water stops). Find a flag pole half way to do a victory loop around before heading back. Signed: Robert Pickens (WVJS)

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Well Sam we have something in common and there are mor people like us out there. I stopped running 10 years ago. Just the ordinary excuses, family, job etc. I went up from 73 kgs up to 98 kgs. anf felt old and fat.(43 years is not really old isn`t it?) Last November I really felt bad, lot of stress even walking up hill got me blowing. So I decided to do something with that. First I went to a doctor to have a check. He told me it was just overweight. Rest OK. He gave me a special diet based on vegetables, grilled meat and fish, no potatoes, no bread, no grease just 2 spoons of raw olive oil a day. It worked well and I lost about 4 kgs the first week, 3 the second week and 1 kg. the following weeks.In total I have lost 23 kgs and am now stble at 76 kgs. As I was loosing weight I already felt better and satisfied with what I did but I wanted to do some more and started running again. With running I started in February/March this year, just 3-4 kms./day. I increased gradually and at this moment I am back on 10-15 kms/day (I do 15 kms. in 1 hr. 10 min.) Nothing great but I am satisfied. Many times when I get up and its cold outside or it was late the night before I just think, "you must be nuts" and sometimes I just go back into bed. No problem it is not an obligation. But I found out, that I not only feel phisically much better after running but also are much more satisfied with myself. This is the best premium I could have. That’s  were I am running for!, just to feel great. Now that my physical form is coming back and I am practicing also swimming (running in the morning and swimming in the evening, and once we got snow again also nordic skiing), I am again aware what I have been missing all these years. Just go on with it all bveginnings are hard but the award is fantastic. I did it and you can also. Keep it up. Good luck. Ren

Question:

    I pour the contents of my run bag onto the ground.  A 3×5 card falls out.  It reads "Go You Sexy Hunk Of Man!"  While this could have come from numerous sources (including Master Barclay), a smiley face and Jane’s signature adorning the bottom of the card quickly answers the riddle.

        Eric, you are a handsome, straight up guy, and I’m glad I met you, but you are just not my type. I prefer women, it’s a biology thing. Nothing I can do about it. As far as your amorous "adventures" in Pentiction before the race… well, everyone knew that you didn’t shave your legs by yourself… Put those honey bees to work! David Barclay IMC 1997: 11:55:59 Triathlon: "Swim, Bike, Crawl"

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The End or The Beginning    Part IV    I spent a week in Anchorage Alaska.  Mountains, glaciers, moose, eagles, salmon, clean air and so much more.  It is a fantastic place, and I had a great time, but it doesn’t compare to IMC.  IMC is like a surprise birthday party, your wedding; and being the MVP at the Superbowl all rolled into one.  No matter who you are, you are the man of the hour.     As I ride into town I see Art starting the run.  He yells out his support.  Just before I dismount the bike, Wade Blomgren repeatedly yells at me to get my attention.  He simply wants to say, "Hi." and "You are doing great."  I find this incredible, given the fact that Wade is ahead of me.  I should be the one telling him how good a race he is having.     As I change into my run gear, I marvel at how well I am doing.  Art destroyed me a little over six weeks ago in a half ironman.  Wade and I are not even in the same league.  I wonder if I am doing that well, or if they are having a bad day.  I notice that Bob M. never caught me on the bike.  This just doesn’t make sense.  He is a far superior cyclist then I could ever hope to be.  I attribute the fact that he never caught me to some sort of mechanical problem.  Bob must have had a flat or something.  I just hope he was not hit by a sheep.     My cousin has two young daughters.  I played with them everyday. Airplane rides, piggy back rides, tickle fights.  They love and appreciated me with that innocent, unconditional love that only children are capable of.  It is a good feeling to know that someone cares; that someone believes in you; that someone wants you to do well.     I pour the contents of my run bag onto the ground.  A 3×5 card falls out.  It reads "Go You Sexy Hunk Of Man!"  While this could have come from numerous sources (including Master Barclay), a smiley face and Jane’s signature adorning the bottom of the card quickly answers the riddle.  I laugh and think, "Someone cares, and that is what makes all the difference."  Jane cares, the IronArmy cares; hell, the whole city cares.     I hit the run course hard.  It throws a furious combination of sun and heat right back at me. My plan is to hold back and run conservatively.  No matter how good I feel, I plan on running just a little slower.  The thought is to actually run the whole damn marathon. A voice in my head snicker’s, "Silly man.  No one can run the entire marathon course.  It is way too hot.  Give up now."     I lumber up main street to the delight of both myself and numerous spectators.  I feel much better than last year’s race in Florida. Basically, I feel hot, tired, sore, sweaty, salty, insane and hardly able to move my legs.  In other words, I feel great.     I see David Barclay and Bob Mina coming in on the bike.  I instinctively scream encouragement to both of them, and instantly understand why Art and Wade yelled to me.  While this is an individual test, there is a common goal.  A sense of teamwork and support.  I want to see everyone finish.  I care.     As I run, one of the spectators remarks, "You look strong.  No doubt you are finishing in daylight."   This gets my attention for one simple reason.  Last year in Florida, my goal was to finish in the daylight. It did not happen.  The sun had long since set  by the time I crossed the finish line.  The man’s comments brought this back to me.  It gave me hope.     Around mile 12 I hear someone calling out my name.  It is Art Hutchinson.  Apparently, the rule is that you are not allowed to pass someone without giving them encouragement.  Art is going the other way. This means he is about 2 miles, or 18 minutes ahead of me.  I feel like his shadow.  He tells me I look great.  The truth is I look like shit, and I am starting to feel like it too.  I am sweating out salts, but taking none in.  I need a little salt and fat, but cannot stomach the thought of eating anything.  I wish Art the best of luck and march onward.     I  hit the run turnaround where a volunteer is about 50 meters ahead of the people getting the special needs bags.  It is his job to notify the other volunteers which run bag to pull out.  I yell, "1074, please."  He retorts, with a smile,  "No, your number is 1047.  No stealing other people’s bags."  On the way back I pass Iron Pete Priolo, who is walking, and doesn’t look good.  I make sure he can keep going and then struggle onward.  It is not long after that Bruce Grant and Jeremy Eden catch up to me.  They keep repeating, "You are doing great. You are doing great."  I try to explain that they have just caught me, and are now leaving me in the dust.  Therefore, they are doing better than great.  The camaraderie just never stops.     I convey good thoughts to everyone I see.  Rolf, Dave Cotting, Jay Capers, Mike Randall, Mike Tennent, Tricia, and David Barclay.  I see Aphrodite.  She looks like magic.  I think about turning around and running with her.  It would only add about 4 miles to my marathon.  My legs are pointing straight back into town, and are refusing to go anywhere else.  The moment comes and goes too quickly.  I sit here regretting this mistake.  Life is too short.  The important moments are too few and far between.  If only I had it to do over again.  I keep looking, but do not see Hurricane Bob.  "Could he have succumbed to the heat?"  I wonder.  I shudder at the thought and keep looking for him. He has to be out here somewhere.     Master Barclay is having a rough day.  He is not alone.  But he has friends, support and love in the form of a tall, blond haired goddess. She stops running her marathon and comes to his rescue.  She walks with him, talks with him, pours water all over him, gives him fluids and refuses to leave him for twenty minutes until she is sure he will be okay.  That is IMC.  Where else do numerous competitors forfeit their own goals and accomplishments just to make sure another competitor reaches his/her goals.  Finishing takes such a precedent over any individual time or placement.  Literally, competitors run the ENTIRE marathon, from the first step to the last, with someone else, just to make sure the other guy finishes their first Ironman.  My hat is off to Tricia, John Welch, Bruce Grant, and so many others.     I am running on empty and I know it.  The question is not "If", but "When."  The bottom falls out at mile 18.  So close, but so far.  I want to keep going.  My toes, feet, knees, legs, hips, arms and brain all want to keep running.  My stomach….my stomach wants an industrial strength Tums, and a date with Marcus Welby, M.D.  I start walking.  I am finished.     My inner voice comes back. Sarcastically, it proposes, "Yes, let’s come back next year.  Let’s torture our self by training all year long. Let’s feel this miserable next August.  Let’s miss out on friends, family and everything else so that we can throw up on the run course." I resolve then and there that I am not coming back.     After walking about 1 mile, I hear another voice.  It is soft, sweet and melodic.  The sun is starting to light up the mountains and lake with streaks of orange and red.   The rays reflect off a head of blond hair to form a halo.  My very own angel!  She repeats herself, "There is chicken broth at the next aid station."  I come out of my daze and realize it is Jane Fratesi.  "Eric, get some chicken broth.  It really helps."  With that she is on her way. Bounding lightly down a hill.  She looks strong.  She is going to finish.  She c….     I hit mile marker twenty-four.  I am a little stronger now thanks to chicken broth at every aid station during the last six miles.  As I pass a spectator, she asks me if I am single (it has got to be those shaved legs I say to myself).  I know it is a game, but I play along.     "No, why?"  I ask.     "Because my sister is single,  and I think the two of you would look great together."     "Have her give me a call."  I say before running out of earshot, knowing full well I have my sights set on someone else.     I am climbing a mountain called Flattop.  It is just outside of Anchorage.  We brought my cousin’s chocolate lab with us.  She is outfitted with her own backpack and is hauling her own water.  From the top there is a view of the city and the whole valley.  The flowers are starting to fade.  The end of summer is near.  All too soon, it will be over.     A guy passes me at the last aid station, and says, "Come on, if you run the last two kilometers, you will finish in under 12:30."     This is all I need.  The legs start running.  Faster and faster. The last couple of blocks are like a dream.  The crowds keep getting bigger and bigger; better and better; louder and louder.  At the Hog’s Breath, which is two blocks from the finish, the crowd is 8-10 deep on both sides.  People are screaming.  Their hands are red from clapping. Kids offer high five’s.  I am afraid to look down for fear that I will find out that I am not walking on water – that it is just a feeling.  I make the left-hand turn onto Lake Shore Drive and raise my hands in the air.  I can hundreds of people in the stands.  I can see the finish line.     It is a good day.  Eric Weiss

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Question:

Does anyone have the  results (or know a URL that has them posted) for the California International Marathon run in Sacramento this AM? Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A Running & Triathlon Resource Site http://www.RunnersWeb.com

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http://www.sacbee.com/sports/marathon/ – Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have the  results (or know a URL that has them posted) for the California International Marathon run in Sacramento this AM? Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A Running & Triathlon Resource Site http://www.RunnersWeb.com

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Question:

   Hello to all.    I was wondering if anyone out there had information on the 1998 St. Anthony’s tri?  I am looking specificaly for the dates and how to register.  Due to some work constraints, I need to know far in advance of any vacation time that I have to take in the future so the date is realy what I’m after.  Also, if anyone has suggestions on places to stay down there, those would be great appreciated as well.  Thanks in advance and good luck to all in Hawaii!!!!!  I will be there in mind and spirit.   Seeee yaaaa..   Bob Vetal.

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I was wondering if anyone out there had information on the 1998 St. Anthony’s tri?  I am looking specificaly for the dates and how to register.

The date is 25 Aprl 98.  The entry info will be available through  www.cftsommersports.com/index.html. Hope this helps. Bob Williams

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St Anthony’s have a web page, I think from memory it is something like www.stanthonys.com/tri or something like that. Kristjan Snorrason

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   Hello to all.    I was wondering if anyone out there had information on the 1998 St. Anthony’s tri?  I am looking specificaly for the dates and how   Bob Vetal.

Bob, I don’t have a 98 calendar in front of me but the race is usually the last Sunday in April. Two weeks before the Gulf Coast Triathlon which usually lands on Mother’s Day.  Hope this helps. Regards, Carlos Torres de Navarra Coral Gables, Fl IMC 1998

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St Anthony’s have a web page, I think from memory it is something like www.stanthonys.com/tri or something like that. Kristjan Snorrason

It can be found at http://www.stanthonys.com/triathlon/index.html Enjoy, Mark E. Johnson, IMC97 http://www.ima.umn.edu/~mjohnson

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Sorry wrong address, that’s what happens when you think aloud. here is what I should have done in the first place. From TRS Deads: There is always St. Anthony’s in St. Petersburg, Florida…usually the last weekend in April.  Excellent race, good weather and a pretty fast course (with exception to all those damn turns in the bike course). They have a web site at the following URL: http://www.stanthonys.com/triathlon/ this was the site for the ‘97 race.  Best of luck.

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Question:

: Here is Kurt Vonnegut’s 1997 MIT Commencement address. It’s very funny but it’s not actually Vonnegut.  It’s by a Chicago Tribune columnist, and she wrote it as a column – not really delivered as a commencement address at any real college.

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Here is Kurt Vonnegut’s 1997 MIT Commencement address. I think at least half of it applies to triathlon. I am, of course, not sure, but the parts that don’t apply may be better. Or not. Please ignore this post at your peril. Or as you please. . Timothy Carlson Kurt Vonnegut’s commencement address at MIT, 1997.  Ladies and gentlemen of the class of ‘97:  ..  Wear sunscreen. … TRI-RELATED:  If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen  would be it. The long-term benefits of sunscreen have been  proved by scientists, whereas the rest of my advice has no  basis more reliable than my own meandering experience. I  will dispense this advice now.  ..  Enjoy the power and beauty of your youth. Oh, never mind.  You will not understand the power and beauty of your youth  until they’ve faded. But trust me, in 20 years, you’ll look  back at photos of yourself and recall in a way you can’t grasp now how much possibility lay before you and how fabulous you really looked. TRI-RELATED: You are not as fat as you imagine.  .. Don’t worry about the future. Or worry, but know that  worrying is as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by  chewing bubble gum. TRI-RELATED: The real troubles in your life are apt to be  things that never crossed your worried mind, the kind that  blindside you at 4 pm on some idle Tuesday (LIKE A CAR) .  .. TRI-RELATED:  Do one thing every day that scares you.  ..  Sing.  ..  Don’t be reckless with other people’s hearts. Don’t put up  with people who are reckless with yours. …  Floss.  .. TRI-RELATED: Don’t waste your time on jealousy. Sometimes you’re ahead,  sometimes you’re behind. The race is long and, in the end,  it’s only with yourself.  ..  RST-RELATED: Remember compliments you receive. Forget the insults. If  you succeed in doing this, tell me how.  .. Keep your old love letters. Throw away your old bank  statements.  ..  TRI-RELATED: Stretch.  .. TRI-RELATED: Don’t feel guilty if you don’t know what you want to do with your life. The most interesting people I know didn’t know  at 22 what they wanted to do with their lives. Some of the  most interesting 40-year-olds I know still don’t.  .. TRI-RELATED Get plenty of calcium. Be kind to your knees. You’ll miss them when they’re gone.  ..  Maybe you’ll marry, maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll have  children,maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll divorce at 40, maybe you’ll  dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary.  Whatever you do, don’t congratulate yourself too much, or berate  yourself either. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody  else’s.  .. TRI-RELATED: Enjoy your body. Use it every way you can. Don’t be afraid  of it or of what other people think of it. It’s the greatest  instrument you’ll ever own.  .. Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your living room.  .. Read the directions, even if you don’t follow them.  .. Do not read beauty magazines. They will only make you feel  ugly.  .. Get to know your parents. You never know when they’ll be  gone for good. Be nice to your siblings. They’re your best link  to your past and the people most likely to stick with you in  the future.  .. Understand that friends come and go, but with a precious  few you should hold on. TRI-RELATED Work hard to bridge the gaps — in  geography and lifestyle, because the older you get, the more you need the people who knew you when you were young.  .. Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you  hard. Live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes  you soft. Travel.  .. Accept certain inalienable truths: Prices will rise. Politicians will philander. You, too, will get old. And when you do,  you’ll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable,  politicians were noble, and children respected their  elders.  ..  Respect your elders.  .. Don’t expect anyone else to support you. Maybe you have a  trust fund. Maybe you’ll have a wealthy spouse. But you never  know when either one might run out.  .. TRI-RELATED RE CHLORINE: Don’t mess too much with your hair or by the time you’re 40  it will look 85.  .. Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is  a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s  worth.  .. But trust me on the sunscreen. END

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Question:

Does anyone have information regarding a marathon in Bermuda?  Do they have shorter races on the same day? DRB

Hi: I just got an email about a new web page for Bermuda running. It’s  http://www.bermuda.bm/ontherun/ Hope this helps. Mike Tennent WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar FTP Race Apps, FAQ, Download The WebRunner Racing Utilities http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html

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Does anyone have information regarding a marathon in Bermuda?  Do they have shorter races on the same day? DRB

Response:

Does anyone have information regarding a marathon in Bermuda?  Do they have shorter races on the same day? DRB

You can check out the Bermuda Running and Triathalon Page at http://www.ibl.bm/ontherun/ for more details, but the short answer is yes. There is a 10k on the same day as the marathon and a half marathon the next day… as if you needed more reasons to go to Bermuda. R

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Question:

snip I’d like to vote for a person who has  past history of age-group athelete support, knowledge of the pro  situation,  …..  and is an able administrator and a street fighter. I agree with what you are asking,   but I personnally would settle for good judgement and a lack

of personal ego invested in all of this.   |       Ray Plotecia            | |       Image Control           |

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[snip] Should we remain a part of the Int’l GB and lobby for the preservation

of the sport’s uniformity, or should we forego the effort, resign ourselves to a second-tier "league" and start a new or parallel GB to represent us? It

sounds to me like you’re resigned to the inevitability of the latter, while I remain hopeful that the efforts of those who PRACTICE the sport might yet win out over those who stand only to profit from it….

My position is the opposite of what you think it is.  I am not resigned to starting a new GB.  I am trying to preserve the existing one, and to preserve it in a way that meets the needs of two constituencies.  Your point is fundamental, and I think I should state what I feel is axiomatic about my position: 1.  I would prefer for all elements of our sport to retain as much commonality as possible, with the least amount of fragmentation possible. I believe this way because I as an age-group athlete am not willing to see the pro aspect of our sport morph into something with which I have nothing in common.  I feel this way because I am proud of our heritage of pros and age-group athletes having a closer and more egalitarian relationship than occurs with any other sport. 2.  At the same time, I am not eager to continue to play second fiddle to the pro side of the sport, which will become the case to an increasingly greater degree as Olympic funding for Tri Fed and the ITU increases, and the Olympics draw nearer. 3.  If we have any desire to be evangelists and apoligists for our sport, if there is any intrinsic value in our attracting others to a lifestyle from which we derive pleasure; and if an increase in age-group participation in Triathlon is of value to those forces who are pushing for triathlon’s success in the Olympics, then I believe that a common national office, with a common strategy, taking advantage of both financial and marketing synergies, is the best thing for triathlon. 4. Above are my reasons for keeping both the age-group interests and Olympic development interests under one roof.  The best way to service the needs of both constituencies is to identify those needs, invest in each constituency the power and the means to achieve those needs.  This means a separate allocation of power and money.  This is not adversarial.  Good fences make good neighbors.   5.  The best way to make sure that the above takes place is to have a Tri Fed board who is elected on a platform that pledges to effect the above changes.  Happily, the Board is not imposed upon us from above, we elect it.  Therefore, with elections coming up in November, I am now preaching my gospel. QRman

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cut…  Since the ITU is an  Olympic development arm of triathlon, it NECESSARILY has nothing to do  with Age-group competition

Cut…  2.  I believe that these two organizations should be funded separately.  

ITU is the world organization.  When our age groupers race in the ‘Worlds’, they race under ITU rules.  The activities of ITU will impinge upon our age-group activities more as time goes by. I don’t think that dividing our organization will strengthen us in any way.  As long as we have pros and amateurs in the same races, as long as age-groupers aspire to race in the world championships as part of Team USA, and as long as we have Olympic hopefuls, separation of the organization will cause more problems than solutions. (IMHO) Our exec board seems preoccupied with the Olympics, juniors etc.  but they do vote on age-group issues.  The Age Group Commission is the group within TriFed that evaluates these issues and formulates recommendations and resolutions upon which the board will vote. This relationship works well.  Let’s strengthen it rather than changing it. I agree with you that the age-group ranks need more attention, and that we should benefit from a bigger share of the funding that we contribute and generate.  We’re working toward all of that. Keep up the good work and suggestions. |       Ray Plotecia            | |       Image Control           |

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 cut…    The activities of ITU will impinge upon our age-group activities more  as time goes by.  Is that something you want?

  ANSWER:  Absolutely not.  snip….  I am calling for something not far from you are saying I think–  strengthening the Age Group Commission to the point where it is co-equal  to the Olympic development side. Not antagonistic, but co-equal.  

RESPONSE:  I’m with you.  I guess my question is this.  Are you part of a Masters swim program?  Are  you glad US Masters exist?  Does this take anything away from the Olympic  development side of swimming?  

snip…  what would be your quarrel with setting up something that would achieve  the same thing for our sport?

ANSWER:  Yes, Yes, and No.  I have no quarrel with your wishes.  Maybe just refocussing the AGC/Exec Board relationship would do the trick. |       Ray Plotecia            | |       Image Control           |

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ITU is the world organization. When our age groupers race in the ‘World= s’,=20 they race under ITU rules.=20

[snipped insightful observations ] The activities of ITU will impinge upon our age-group activities more as time goes by.

[snipped more resoundingly great comments from Ray]

[snipped Olympic funding comments] I guess my question is this. Are you part of a Masters swim program? Are you glad US Masters exist? Does this take anything away from the Olympic development side of swimming? If your answers are Yes, Yes, and No, then what would be your quarrel with setting up something that would achieve the same thing for our sport?=20

Just this: The competitive rules for swimming are the same for either leve= l. A 400 freestyle world record time is directly comparable to anyone else= ’s time in that distance. When the Olympic arm of the sport’s GB is bent o= n fundamentally changing the nature of the sport, the question becomes: Sh= ould we remain a part of the Int’l GB and lobby for the preservation of th= e sport’s uniformity, or should we forego the effort, resign ourselves to = a second-tier "league" and start a new or parallel GB to represent us? It = sounds to me like you’re resigned to the inevitability of the latter, whil= e I remain hopeful that the efforts of those who PRACTICE the sport might = yet win out over those who stand only to profit from it.    Perhaps after the Sydney Olympics have passed, bringing what PR they ma= y, we might then consider the main function of the ITU to have been accomp= lished, and initiate a mass emigration to a more responsive (new?) organiz= ation.=20    Who knows….I’m just tired of the politics. Let’s run our races, invit= e the big guns, enforce the draft rules, and let the chips fall. It seems = to work for Alcatraz, Ironman, etc. If the race is great, the pros seem in= creasingly to show up, maybe due to the increased purse resulting from inc= reased age-group participation. Even w/ Chicago 2 weeks away! Kurian Davis

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Dan , while I am running for the Board, I’m not in your region.  But, I am in total agreement with your position on the reletive value of age-groupers to our sport.  My one question as to your dicotomy solution, is "If an organization is to be considered representative of its sport in order to be considered an Olympic-level NGB, how do you think the USOC would view a split organization?"

Why do you expect any different view than swimming has?  US Swimming and US Masters is the perfect analogy.  I don’t believe the USOC gives swimming a hard time. Pat    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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I still think you should throw your hat in the ring of our revered 619 area code region one of these days. I’d like to vote for a person who has past history of age-group athelete support, knowledge of the pro situation,  is not in the good ol boys club , the san diego or santa monica mafia and is an able administrator and a street fighter. JJ Jeffrey Justice

How about you JJ? then you could really piss off some people! Bruce Platt

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Another point of view on the subject of altering the sport to appease the media is that it sets a dangerous precedent. If some media VP says that draft-legal is just not getting enough market share, let’s try a motorized hill climb as your third event.  Would we do it?  Once a prostitute, always a prostitute?  A little bit tongue-in-cheek but still a very valid scenario. Jim Jimison, Board candidate, Eastern Region.

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How about you JJ? then you could really piss off some people! <<

No thanks BD. I’m not to swift in the administration department. I know my limits. jj Jeffrey Justice

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ITU is the world organization.  When our age groupers race in the ‘Worlds’, they race under ITU rules.  

Do you really think the ITU has any interest in age-group activities? Once a Pro World Championships for triathlon can be staged without the benefit of age-group entry fees (partially) funding it, how long do you think the age-groupers will be involved in such a world championship?  Is there any other sport you can think of in which this phenomenon of commingled pro and amateur exists?  The activities of ITU will impinge upon our age-group activities more

as time goes by. Is that something you want? I don’t think that dividing our organization will strengthen us in any way.

I am not advocating war between the Olympic development side and the age-group side.  I’m advocating a division of duties, and a division of moneys, so that no one gets slighted. As long as we have pros and amateurs in the same races, as long as age-groupers aspire to race in the world championships as part of Team USA, and as long as we have Olympic hopefuls, separation of the organization will cause more problems than solutions. (IMHO)

Look at the races in which pros and amateurs REALLY race alongside each other.  Are they the ITU World Cup races, or those races (like the Ironman) in which the ITU plays no part? Whether in running, cycling, or swimming, or triathlon, any mass event featuring pros and age-groupers racing together is run by those outside of an NGB influence.  Virtually no athletic endeavor which is run closely by an Olympic NGB or IGB has a mass participation component. Olympic development bodies get their funding from Olympic development sources to develop Olympians, period.  That’s really all they’re interested in, and it is what they are required to do.   And that is all Tri Fed will be as soon as 80% of their funding comes from Olympic sources (USOC, Olympic sponsors), until and unless we set up a structure NOW to make sure that doesn’t happen to our NGB. The Age Group Commission is the group within TriFed that evaluates these issues and formulates recommendations and resolutions upon which the board will vote.  This relationship works well.  Let’s strengthen it rather than changing it.

I am calling for something not far from you are saying I think– strengthening the Age Group Commission to the point where it is co-equal to the Olympic development side. Not antagonistic, but co-equal.  Our sport has grown, and our NGB’s have prospered, largely on the financial backs of age-groupers.  I have no quarrel with that.  However, now the NGB’s are receiving funding from their various Olympic committees, the age-group racers can be proud of the help they have given to the Olympic movement, and our sport has matured to the point that it can –and should– have divided duties. I guess my question is this.  Are you part of a Masters swim program?  Are you glad US Masters exist?  Does this take anything away from the Olympic development side of swimming?  If your answers are Yes, Yes, and No, then what would be your quarrel with setting up something that would achieve the same thing for our sport? QRman

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If you’re running for the board, you should atleast sign your name ( i might want to vote for you, or  fill out your aol member profile) Good luck with the election. I’ll leave the line blank, just tell trifed that all blank ballots should be counted for you Bruce Platt

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Another point of view on the subject of altering the sport to appease the media is that it sets a dangerous precedent.

Not to return to the ever-present subject of drafting (well, what the heck, why not), I think it’s a dubious assertion at best that "what TV wants is drafting." Pro cycling has drafting, and TV (I speak here of the US only) is hardly falling over itself to broadcast cycling. What they *really* want (IMHO) is loop-style courses, to make it more practical and less expensive to broadcast. This is one of the reasons why there is so much (relatively speaking, needless to say) broadcasting of mountain bike races vis-a-vis road races. Personally, I have nothing against loop courses, although as a competitor, I’m much more interested in a course where I’m going to spend the whole time covering new ground, instead of doing the same thing over and over again, and doubt I would ever do a loop course race. But a little TV money would certainly make up for an awful lot of people like me who wouldn’t enter the race, so I understand why promotors and pros and TV people would like loop courses. But loop courses and drafting are not synonomous. If anything, it ought to be *easier* to enforce drafting on a shorter loop course.  Drafting, just like the drafters, sucks. Making this change on the grounds that "that’s what the TV wanted" was a bad, bad decision. Steve Patt, Stevens Creek Software   http://alumni.caltech.edu/~slp/tad.html (The Athlete’s Diary home page)   ftp://alumni.caltech.edu/pub/slp (Information and demo copies)

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Dan , while I am running for the Board, I’m not in your region.  But, I am in total agreement with your position on the reletive value of age-groupers to our sport.  My one question as to your dicotomy solution, is "If an organization is to be considered representative of its sport in order to be considered an Olympic-level NGB, how do you think the USOC would view a split organization?"

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I have to agree with QRMan . How can Tri Fed *not* split these two components, since the sport that we age groupers compete in is becoming, more and more, a completely different sport than what the ITU ,in all its wisdom , is trying to pass off as Triathlon to the IOC.  I also agree with Dan’s other point about funding and development.  Let’s hear the various candidates’ opinions on drafting, wetsuits, conflict of interest(I personally have no objection at all to race directors serving on the Board), and some of the other topics that seem to get everyone on this newsgroup riled up, as well.

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Pretty brilliant Dan. That seems to be the crux of the matter. I still think you should throw your hat in the ring of our revered 619 area code region one of these days. I’d like to vote for a person who has past history of age-group athelete support, knowledge of the pro situation,  is not in the good ol boys club , the san diego or santa monica mafia and is an able administrator and a street fighter. JJ Jeffrey Justice

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<<Dan , while I am running for the Board, I’m not in your region.  But, I am <<in total agreement with your position on the reletive value of <<age-groupers to our sport.  My one question as to your dicotomy solution, <<is "If an organization is to be considered representative of its sport in <<order to be considered an Olympic-level NGB, how do you think the USOC <<would view a split organization?" I don’t know.  I’m not part of the inner-workings of NGB’s and the USOC, which some would view as a liability and some as an asset.  It would seem logical to me that the USOC wouldn’t care, so long as the NGB is keeping up with its responsibilities regarding Olympic development.  I’d be interested to see exactly how swimming is set up, as I think they represent the closest approximation of what I’m talking about.   Also, the USOC is charged with nothing save Olympic development.  If they DID have a philosophical problem with an NGB granting equal time and energy to the age-group and Olympic programs, then I think its obvious that simply by being an Olympic sport our NGB has been co-opted by Olympic interests, and insofar as goes the age-group side, we’d better realize the handwriting is on the wall and set up a second body which fosters the best interest of the sport. QRman

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I am not running for the board, and so I do not want your vote.  However, I have prepared a platform on which I WOULD run if I were running, which I’m not.  I’d like to know exactly who is running in all the regions, i.e., John Duke has thrown his hat into the ring (who else’ll own up to it?).  And, upon owning up to it, can you please reply to each of my positions below, so I know whether I’ll vote for you (if you’re in my region) or not. 1.  Tri Fed is both the member organization of the ITU, and is also the national governing body for the United States.  Since the ITU is an Olympic development arm of triathlon, it NECESSARILY has nothing to do with Age-group competition (this is not a criticism of the ITU, it is a statement of fact).  Tri Fed, on the other hand, has the dual responsibility of Olympic development AND age-group competition.  Since Tri Fed is now receiving funding from the USOC (which is also solely an Olympic/World Championship organization) I believe that Tri Fed needs to undergo a separation into two organizations, one which is beholden to the age-group athlete, one which is for Olympic development, much in the way swimming is set up, i.e., US Swimming and US Masters. 2.  I believe that these two organizations should be funded separately.  I believe that dues 100% of dues paid by Tri Fed members should go toward age-group issues and expenses.  Money from age-group corporate sponsors should be used only for age-group expenses. USOC and Olympic development sponsor money should be used for Olympic Development expenses. 3.  These two organizations should be split at the top, i.e., eventually (when it is economically feasible) one exec. dir. for Olympic development, one for age-group, both reporting to the Tri Fed board president.   4.  While I believe that these two heirarchies should be co-equal and autonomous, I believe the board members should realize and agree that age-group members are the base of the sport, and make up a "critical mass", without which both the participation AND Olympic components will cease to exit (modern pentathlon was an expensive sport to stage at the Olympics, AND had no real base of practicioners, so it was nixed; Triathlon could easily be subject to the same thinking if a critical mass of "practicioners" does not exist).   5.  There should be a World Championships for age-groups separate from that of the pros.  For more about this, see http://www.webcom.com/~rooworld/brave_new_worlds.html. 6.  I believe that our Olympic Development effort, and funding, should center on those leaving college, not on those in high school.  We should be using university money, i.e., scholarship money, to keep these top level athletes improving until they are ready to enter the world of professional endurance sports.  I would be much happier seeing Tri Fed fund and develop a national development team of recent college grads who are 29 minute (33 for women) 10k runners with a heavy swimming backround, than luring high schoolers away from college with a few support dollars, so that we can MAYBE develop an Olympian, just to see him washed up at 30 years old with no degree, no career, and no skill.  I believe a juniors program should be one which simply introduces young’uns to multi-sport, not one which tries to make international stars out of them. 7.  Olympic development is important, but is not the preeminent need or problem facing triathlon in America. It is the need for more and better races where good races don’t exist. An American Olympic gold medalist guarantees nothing.  We have had star track athletes while popular enthusiasm for T&F has plummeted in America.  Africans dominate road running in America, yet road running continues to flourish here, because it is fun and accessible, in spite of the fact that no governing body exists to encourage it.  Let us not make the mistake of other NGB’s, i.e., Running and Cycling.  Let us not have a governing body which forgets its popular base of support once the USOC funding spigot is turned on.  Let us have a healthy co-equal co-existence between the Olympic development side and the age-group side.  Supporting broad steps to make that occur NOW is the way for a candidate to prove that this is his platform as well as mine. QRman

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