Question:
I saw some postings up there, concerning training hours/distances. I
BIG SNIP time of 13:22. My broken pelvis slowed me slighlty, but I thought it was just REALLY REALLY bad saddle sore.
This has to be one of the best quotes I have ever seen posted here. "My broken pelvis slowed me slighlty, but…" Jeesus! Hard core. Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you wanna finish…..7 hours per week will work…..JUST. If you wanna have a good experience (or at least better) then 15 hours per week is probably a good idea, along with nutritional practice, and a real bike. — TTFN TriDork ALWAYS have a "Plan B"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you joking? What do you mean when you say "front of the pack". The 10 guys at IMH who actually do train those crazy hours. The (very limited # of) guys for whom an 8-something hour race is standard operating procedure? The thread originated by someone asking for minimal time needed to finish an IM…not what consitutes normal training for a very small bunch of people… 1200 hours/year is more than sufficient for enabling a triathlete to finish in the front of the pack, not just finish…in fact, you’ll probably find that many fast ironman triathletes (even pros) don’t train anywhere near that amount…and most of those 300-400 mile weeks you hear about are for a few weeks (to ramp up), not for the entire year…and even those people take a month or two off each year… Somebody help me out here! There’s probably about 1,200 hours difference between what’s required for a Front-of-Pack finish, and a finish. — Mark
Let me help…. 1200 – 0 = 1200 difference between Front of Pack and the finisher staggering in 4 hours before the sun comes up on the day after. It was tongue-in-cheek — apparently too tongue-in-cheek :) My guess would be (although I have absolutely zero basis for this guess) that the top 10 or 20 finishers in the WTC IMs train 1200 and up. But who really knows? What’s training time, what’s shower time, and what’s ’stop for a coldie’ time? 1200 hours in Zone 5 HR? Not likely. — Mark
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Exactly. I just wonder who is out there training 1200 hours/year?! That’s crazy. That’s over 20 hours/week all year long (w/no time off). That’s absurd. Most pros probably don’t train that much. Half that isn’t even necessary. Joel Friel probably knows a lot about training/racing, but with someone like that telling people they’ll have to train 600-1200 hours/year for an Ironman, it’s a wonder anyone even bothers to sign up for an IM… A side note: Joel Friel in the Inside Triathlon Training Diary suggests that IM athletes train 600-1200 hours a year (versus 400-600 hours a year for International distance racing). I’m proof that this isn’t necessary (unless you are interested in better finishing times, as I am, hence my increasing training hours). Hope this helps. –Lee Crumbaugh (Tri-Hard)
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I love that question…I hardly train…I am not pro…I think you can do an IM with mostly your mind. I’ve done three in the last 6 years and each time I have improved my time by just being smarter and training less. You can complete and IM, you won’t be on the winner’s block, but you will have all the feelings and emotions that are part of crossing that finish line!
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I saw some postings up there, concerning training hours/distances. I was shocked how much the average newsgrouper trains / how little I do. I woundered how many of these athletes were mainly professionals and/or focusing thier lives mainly around triathlon. I would like to hear your opinons on the amount of training necessary to finish an ironman no matter what time, say 15 or 16 hours
snip Torsten Minimums? You want Minimums?! I have done 3 IM to date (still can’t kick the habit) For my first IM I ( and everyone else) had no idea what I was getting into so I trained all the time I had available. This turned out to be about 15 hours per week. I managed 14:16 on the worlds easiest IM course in Montreal Canada ‘95. For my second IM in New Zealand ‘98, I Knew more and trained less but better and on the actual course. This worked out to about 7-8 hours most weeks and 10 or slightly more for a BIG week 
With this training I suffered (mainly due to the killer course and monster winds on the day) for 15:15, wishing I had taken up tennis. For my last IMNZ’00, I trained more, 10-20 hours per week) occasionally on the new IMNZ course, and better quality. I narrowly missed the nutritional part this time and suffered horribly on the run for a final time of 13:22. My broken pelvis slowed me slighlty, but I thought it was just REALLY REALLY bad saddle sore. If you wanna finish…..7 hours per week will work…..JUST. If you wanna have a good experience (or at least better) then 15 hours per week is probably a good idea, along with nutritional practice, and a real bike. — TTFN TriDork ALWAYS have a "Plan B"
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No, I know of people who train 20-25 hours/week (for IM anyway, i hope not for OD and sprints!)…all I’m saying is that people have to realize that it’s not always necessary. In fact, I think it’s ridiculous/overkill…I think it actually works against most people…It’s too bad that those who are new to the sport get discouraged by all this talk of 25 hour training weeks. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong w/training 25 hours/week – i wish I could do that! Talent or no talent, i think under 500 hours/week can get anyone to the IM finish line…(so long as the quality training is there). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As far as the origanal topic (minimal training for an IM) I am sure it can be done on the 5-10 hours a week people mention. However your comments seem to indicate you believe only the top 10 finishers at IMH are training 1200 hours a year, you are mistaken. I think you would be very surprised at how many decent age groupers train this much. Many people I know and have known over the years train this much for Tri’s or for just Mountain bike or road racing. 20-25 hours a week of training is what it takes for the born talentless to be competitive for at least one person I know. I think you are correct in saying smoe pros don’t train this much, this is due to talent. Of course guys like Tinley used to train 40+ hours a week. Tim buaidh no bas
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you joking? What do you mean when you say "front of the pack". The 10 guys at IMH who actually do train those crazy hours. The (very limited # of) guys for whom an 8-something hour race is standard operating procedure? The thread originated by someone asking for minimal time needed to finish an IM…not what consitutes normal training for a very small bunch of people… 1200 hours/year is more than sufficient for enabling a triathlete to finish in the front of the pack, not just finish…in fact, you’ll probably find that many fast ironman triathletes (even pros) don’t train anywhere near that amount…and most of those 300-400 mile weeks you hear about are for a few weeks (to ramp up), not for the entire year…and even those people take a month or two off each year… Somebody help me out here!
As far as the origanal topic (minimal training for an IM) I am sure it can be done on the 5-10 hours a week people mention. However your comments seem to indicate you believe only the top 10 finishers at IMH are training 1200 hours a year, you are mistaken. I think you would be very surprised at how many decent age groupers train this much. Many people I know and have known over the years train this much for Tri’s or for just Mountain bike or road racing. 20-25 hours a week of training is what it takes for the born talentless to be competitive for at least one person I know. I think you are correct in saying smoe pros don’t train this much, this is due to talent. Of course guys like Tinley used to train 40+ hours a week. Tim buaidh no bas
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Heh heh… (it was an errant select/delete…sorry about that) Hey nitz, you have my name there at the top but nothing posted by me in your quote! Phil
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I’d agree w/that… I’d be willing to bet that there’s not a significant difference in the actual number of hours put in by the 12 hour finisher and the 16 hour finisher. But the pace and intensity will be quite different. It’s the quality, not the quantity. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 Great Floridian ‘99, ‘00
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you joking? What do you mean when you say "front of the pack". The 10 guys at IMH who actually do train those crazy hours. The (very limited # of) guys for whom an 8-something hour race is standard operating procedure? The thread originated by someone asking for minimal time needed to finish an IM…not what consitutes normal training for a very small bunch of people… 1200 hours/year is more than sufficient for enabling a triathlete to finish in the front of the pack, not just finish…in fact, you’ll probably find that many fast ironman triathletes (even pros) don’t train anywhere near that amount…and most of those 300-400 mile weeks you hear about are for a few weeks (to ramp up), not for the entire year…and even those people take a month or two off each year… Somebody help me out here!
I’d be willing to bet that there’s not a significant difference in the actual number of hours put in by the 12 hour finisher and the 16 hour finisher. But the pace and intensity will be quite different. It’s the quality, not the quantity. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 Great Floridian ‘99, ‘00
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Hey nitz, you have my name there at the top but nothing posted by me in your quote! Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you joking? What do you mean when you say "front of the pack". The 10 guys at IMH who actually do train those crazy hours. The (very limited # of) guys for whom an 8-something hour race is standard operating procedure? The thread originated by someone asking for minimal time needed to finish an IM…not what consitutes normal training for a very small bunch of people… 1200 hours/year is more than sufficient for enabling a triathlete to finish in the front of the pack, not just finish…in fact, you’ll probably find that many fast ironman triathletes (even pros) don’t train anywhere near that amount…and most of those 300-400 mile weeks you hear about are for a few weeks (to ramp up), not for the entire year…and even those people take a month or two off each year… Somebody help me out here! There’s probably about 1,200 hours difference between what’s required for a Front-of-Pack finish, and a finish. — Mark
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oh, and switching from your mtn bike to a road with aerobars will make a big diff. i would guess the biggest difference (coming from slicks) would be the addition of the aerobars to set your body position, followed by the more aero tires and lastly themore aero frame (least difference). arguments could be made for more stable handling of a road bike, but over the course of hours, this is overwhelmed by aerodynamics.
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I’ve done 2 ironman races (‘98 and ‘99). I started triathlons in 1997. I’m 27 years old. Most races I do are sprints and ODs. In ‘99, I did IMH on 12-15 hours/week of training/week. I had a full time job (45 hours/week or so). For much of the spring/summer (i don’t do much in the winter, maybe 5 hours/week) I train about 10 hours/week. For Hawaii, I did 12-15 hours/week for about 5-6 weeks before a 2 week taper. The key workouts for me were rides/runs on the weekends. My rides ranged from 4 to 6 hours (I think I did two ~100+ mile rides total), and my runs were between 1 1/2 and 2 1/4 hours (one run over 2 hours).
Our hours are about the same. The intensity is different – probably because of age differences (I’m 53) and goals (I’m slow.) <g I’m more relaxed on the longer stuff but really try to hammer the mid-week rides. I don’t hammer runs anymore (of any distance) because injuries and overuse show up quickly if I do. 12-15 hours sounds about right for late season peaking, with 10 being the standard for most of the summer. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 Great Floridian ‘99, ‘00
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I’ve been a triathlete since 1991 and have done 50 plus tris, plus 5Ks, marathons, etc. Since 1997 I’ve been training for IM races and did my first in 1998 (Vineman). Since then I have done IM Canada twice. I’m 53 and have a history as a slow cross country runner in high school and then a competitive ice speedskater before I started triathlon. Here are my actual training hours for 1997 through 2000: 1997 254 hours 1998 300 hours 1999 333 hours 2000 398 hours I’ve recently added regular master’s swim workouts so I may even hit 500 hours this year. Oh yeah, I’m an executive who works long weeks, has morning and evening meetings, am an active community volunteer and sing in the church choir. I did Vineman in 14.08, and my IM Canada times have been 13:50 and 14:13 (really tough conditions!). So I’m proof that you can have a life and do relatively decently in IM racing. With my training level my times are still coming down, so I fully expect to improve at IM Canada this year, condidions allowing. When do I train? Most mornings early. Some evenings. And I save the long stuff for weekends. As some else in this thread said, the long stuff is most important for finishing IM races. I would add that longer bricks help you improve your times. A side note: Joel Friel in the Inside Triathlon Training Diary suggests that IM athletes train 600-1200 hours a year (versus 400-600 hours a year for International distance racing). I’m proof that this isn’t necessary (unless you are interested in better finishing times, as I am, hence my increasing training hours). Hope this helps. –Lee Crumbaugh (Tri-Hard) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I saw some postings up there, concerning training hours/distances. I was shocked how much the average newsgrouper trains / how little I do. I woundered how many of these athletes were mainly professionals and/or focusing thier lives mainly around triathlon. I would like to hear your opinons on the amount of training necessary to finish an ironman no matter what time, say 15 or 16 hours. As I asume it depends highly on the basic fitnesslevel one has, here are some information about me: Age 28, did last year one Marathon (5 hours/mountain) and one Short Distance Tri (3:04 / bike was done on MTB), main sport basketball one or two times a week training, will not be stopped for triathlon training (maybe the week prior to race). Right now I am working 1 hour on swimming technique, and do a short run (5km) and long bike (3 hours) or long run (20 km) and short bike (1hour) per week. I also wondered about the speed-gain from switching from MTB (already equipped with slicks) to a road/tri bike. Thanks for your opinions, I hope my english was not too terrible. You may answer in German too. Torsten
Response:
Are you joking? What do you mean when you say "front of the pack". The 10 guys at IMH who actually do train those crazy hours. The (very limited # of) guys for whom an 8-something hour race is standard operating procedure? The thread originated by someone asking for minimal time needed to finish an IM…not what consitutes normal training for a very small bunch of people… 1200 hours/year is more than sufficient for enabling a triathlete to finish in the front of the pack, not just finish…in fact, you’ll probably find that many fast ironman triathletes (even pros) don’t train anywhere near that amount…and most of those 300-400 mile weeks you hear about are for a few weeks (to ramp up), not for the entire year…and even those people take a month or two off each year… Somebody help me out here! There’s probably about 1,200 hours difference between what’s required for a Front-of-Pack finish, and a finish. — Mark
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Exactly. I just wonder who is out there training 1200 hours/year?! That’s crazy. That’s over 20 hours/week all year long (w/no time off). That’s absurd. Most pros probably don’t train that much. Half that isn’t even necessary. Joel Friel probably knows a lot about training/racing, but with someone like that telling people they’ll have to train 600-1200 hours/year for an Ironman, it’s a wonder anyone even bothers to sign up for an IM…
There’s probably about 1,200 hours difference between what’s required for a Front-of-Pack finish, and a finish. — Mark
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SNIP to train 600-1200 hours/year for an Ironman, it’s a wonder anyone even bothers to sign up for an IM… There’s probably about 1,200 hours difference between what’s required for a Front-of-Pack finish, and a finish. — Mark
Ain’t that the truth? If the Germans do what 300-400 miles a week on the bike, assuming what 22 mph? That’s up 18 hours just on the bike. Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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I saw some postings up there, concerning training hours/distances. I was shocked how much the average newsgrouper trains / how little I do. I woundered how many of these athletes were mainly professionals and/or focusing thier lives mainly around triathlon. I would like to hear your opinons on the amount of training necessary to finish an ironman no matter what time, say 15 or 16 hours. As I asume it depends highly on the basic fitnesslevel one has, here are some information about me: Age 28, did last year one Marathon (5 hours/mountain) and one Short Distance Tri (3:04 / bike was done on MTB), main sport basketball one or two times a week training, will not be stopped for triathlon training (maybe the week prior to race). Right now I am working 1 hour on swimming technique, and do a short run (5km) and long bike (3 hours) or long run (20 km) and short bike (1hour) per week. I also wondered about the speed-gain from switching from MTB (already equipped with slicks) to a road/tri bike. Thanks for your opinions, I hope my english was not too terrible. You may answer in German too. Torsten
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Hi Torsten, I have a job, a life and you have about my time on an Olympic. My life is not mainly focussedc around triathlon, but sustainably intertwined to it. I’m almost 40, started tris in 1997, trained about 8-12 hrs/week last year (starting early Dec 1999), of which 40% bike, 20% run, 20% swim, 10% strength/stretch. Lots of bike commuting, 35-40 min session for a 9 miles commute, once/twice a day, 4-5 days/week, sometimes followed or preceeded by a 20-30 min run. Finished my first IM Lake Placid 2000 in 15:02 (1:40 swim, 7:30 bike, 5:30 run), sprinting at the finish and in control. Nutrition and hydration were tuned in training (3-5 hrs duathlons on weekends) and carefully executed at IM. I did well mostly on a lot of gatorade, a few gels, a couple of bars. Got a huge kick out of it and a nice finish shot to look at and verify that the guy in the picture it’s really me. I had 4 Half-Irons in my bag before IM, and a few Olympics. Some tips: – get a road bike with an aerobar and an aerobottle and get used to it – you’ll be out there 14-16 hrs (btw, close to the cutoff of 17 hrs) so spread your workouts to 2-3 times throughout the day to raise your methabolic rate and get your body used to work all day long at low/medium intensity – learn your nutrition/hydration needs and practice them religiously: in an IM they are as critical as technique in the three sports – ask yourself now if you _really_ want to do an IM, because at the start of the run and way into it, the sirens of fatigue will start singing, and if you stop, the mere thought of it, after all the investement, will haunt you forever — only your steadfast motivation can get you through at those times – your long run is fine, use a camelback to hydrate with iced carbodrink about every 10 min, the time it takes to go from one waterstation to another (1 mile apart), throw in a gel every 10-15 min. – combine long bike/runs (3-5 hrs): it beats the boredom and gets you used to transitions, hydrate every 5min on the bike – what I told you would be most effective if you had already a plan and knew more about triathlon. Your "minimal" training is way below what I consider minimal for IM. Could you survive and finish an IM? As of now, I’d say: "Maybe". IM is a huge time, money and emotional investment anyway, however "minimal" you want to make it, and I suggest you get to know triathlon better by reading some of the good books around (Joe Friel’s or Sleamaker and Browning’s, for istance) while committing your resources to a larger training volume — you don’t want to stay "minimal" and fail, do you good luck roberto – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw some postings up there, concerning training hours/distances. I was shocked how much the average newsgrouper trains / how little I do. I woundered how many of these athletes were mainly professionals and/or focusing thier lives mainly around triathlon. I would like to hear your opinons on the amount of training necessary to finish an ironman no matter what time, say 15 or 16 hours. As I asume it depends highly on the basic fitnesslevel one has, here are some information about me: Age 28, did last year one Marathon (5 hours/mountain) and one Short Distance Tri (3:04 / bike was done on MTB), main sport basketball one or two times a week training, will not be stopped for triathlon training (maybe the week prior to race). Right now I am working 1 hour on swimming technique, and do a short run (5km) and long bike (3 hours) or long run (20 km) and short bike (1hour) per week. I also wondered about the speed-gain from switching from MTB (already equipped with slicks) to a road/tri bike. Thanks for your opinions, I hope my english was not too terrible. You may answer in German too. Torsten
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you train about the same amount i did for my first half im. listen to the nutrition/hydration talk! i thought i listened, but hadn’t the benefit of training in race conditions (hotter than expected). i was 30 minutes ahead of my goal pace off the bike and feeling great (or so i thought). my legs felt heavy off the bike (nothing unexpected), but i noticed about a half mile into the run, that i was no longer sweating (and it was 90 degrees out)… oops. i thought i had taken in plenty of fluids, but somehow hadn’t. luckily, half-vineman has a rest-stop EVERY mile on the run course; and i walked through every one of them taking in almost everything they had to offer well, after being 30 minutes ahead of my pace entering the run, i finshed in 5:36 (6 minutes off my goal), but was ecstatic to have finished considering i was in such poor shape entering the run. i’ve never done a full im, but would imagine you would need to add a few sessions where you are active for longer than your current sessions. not every week, but maybe every other, combine your long run and bike (but take them easy to start). best of luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw some postings up there, concerning training hours/distances. I was shocked how much the average newsgrouper trains / how little I do. I woundered how many of these athletes were mainly professionals and/or focusing thier lives mainly around triathlon. I would like to hear your opinons on the amount of training necessary to finish an ironman no matter what time, say 15 or 16 hours. As I asume it depends highly on the basic fitnesslevel one has, here are some information about me: Age 28, did last year one Marathon (5 hours/mountain) and one Short Distance Tri (3:04 / bike was done on MTB), main sport basketball one or two times a week training, will not be stopped for triathlon training (maybe the week prior to race). Right now I am working 1 hour on swimming technique, and do a short run (5km) and long bike (3 hours) or long run (20 km) and short bike (1hour) per week. I also wondered about the speed-gain from switching from MTB (already equipped with slicks) to a road/tri bike. Thanks for your opinions, I hope my english was not too terrible. You may answer in German too. Torsten
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Most people either exaggerate their training hours, or they overtrain. In order to finish an ironman, you really don’t need to train much more than you do for shorter races, you just need to do your key workouts (long rides/runs on the weekends) and have a base level of fitness that allows you to do the longer rides/runs. I’ve done 2 ironman races (‘98 and ‘99). I started triathlons in 1997. I’m 27 years old. Most races I do are sprints and ODs. In ‘99, I did IMH on 12-15 hours/week of training/week. I had a full time job (45 hours/week or so). For much of the spring/summer (i don’t do much in the winter, maybe 5 hours/week) I train about 10 hours/week. For Hawaii, I did 12-15 hours/week for about 5-6 weeks before a 2 week taper. The key workouts for me were rides/runs on the weekends. My rides ranged from 4 to 6 hours (I think I did two ~100+ mile rides total), and my runs were between 1 1/2 and 2 1/4 hours (one run over 2 hours). It’s important that you focus on quality (even for the long rides – spinning for 6 hours is useless – you should ride pretty hard, off and on). Swimming, running and biking during the week are more or less for maintenance when you work full time, although it’s good to get in some speedwork when you can find the time. Like you, I’m perplexed when people talk about how many hours they train. It seems many age-groupers are essentially pros who live off trust funds, or they’re masochistic and pay no attention to life outside of triathlon. Either that, or they just really like to train, which is fine. I love to train. But training 20 or 25 hours/week isn’t necessary (by any stretch of the imagination) to complete an ironman, and I’d imagine it takes the place of some other fun things you could do. That’s just my opinion…I’m sure you’ll get many more… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw some postings up there, concerning training hours/distances. I was shocked how much the average newsgrouper trains / how little I do. I woundered how many of these athletes were mainly professionals and/or focusing thier lives mainly around triathlon. I would like to hear your opinons on the amount of training necessary to finish an ironman no matter what time, say 15 or 16 hours. As I asume it depends highly on the basic fitnesslevel one has, here are some information about me: Age 28, did last year one Marathon (5 hours/mountain) and one Short Distance Tri (3:04 / bike was done on MTB), main sport basketball one or two times a week training, will not be stopped for triathlon training (maybe the week prior to race). Right now I am working 1 hour on swimming technique, and do a short run (5km) and long bike (3 hours) or long run (20 km) and short bike (1hour) per week. I also wondered about the speed-gain from switching from MTB (already equipped with slicks) to a road/tri bike. Thanks for your opinions, I hope my english was not too terrible. You may answer in German too. Torsten
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Question:
I haven’t checked in in a while… Have I missed the Ironman (Hawaii) on TV? If not, any word when? Thanks.
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I tried to find the Hawaii Ironman on TV here in Canada. But I’m wondering, that there was nothing! Everything about Icehockey, Basketball and Football. Nothing about Endurance Sport! If anybody knows channels an times I would appriciate to get the info. Thanks, Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t checked in in a while… Have I missed the Ironman (Hawaii) on TV? If not, any word when? Thanks.
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Last I heard, IMH was set to be broadcast on NBC on Dec. 20th Alison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that there was nothing! Everything about Icehockey, Basketball and Football. Nothing about Endurance Sport! If anybody knows channels an times I would appriciate to get the info. Thanks, Michael I haven’t checked in in a while… Have I missed the Ironman (Hawaii) on TV? If not, any word when? Thanks.
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I think December 20. Not sure who is broadcasting it.
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Information posted here (rec.sport.triathlon) some months ago said 4:00-6:00pm NBC Dec. 20th. If someone knows different, please post for all. Thanks everybody.
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: I think December 20. Not sure who is broadcasting it. : In the US, its on Dec 20 on NBC. I’m not sure if you Canadians pick this : channel up though, so I’m not sure about that. Yup, if you’ve got cable, you get NBC. Can’t wait! — "Pain is a question of mind over matter, if you don’t mind, it don’t matter!" P.J. LeBlanc, Dept. of Zoology, U. of Guelph, Guelph, Ont., N1G2W1
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Can anyone tell me when the Hawaii Ironman is going to be on TV. I can’t find it anywhere… Thanks, Tony
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December 20th, Hawaii Ironman will be on t.v. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me when the Hawaii Ironman is going to be on TV. I can’t find it anywhere… Thanks, Tony
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Why get all excited over a 1 hour special on Alexandra Paul. Just watch "Bay Watch", no need to wait till NBC puts her on the air. Yep, I’m kind of looking forward to it also but a little skeptical about the coverage. NBC has not done a great job in the past. They should get a lesson from the people that did the coverage for the 1997 awards ceremony, it was great stuff, the kind of stuff that made IMH famous. Coverage of real people doing a real event and the work making it possible. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried to find the Hawaii Ironman on TV here in Canada.
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Question:
Can you give a short summary of your build up in training: i.e. long runs a week, miles run/week, and what is pertinent to you.
Here is the complete series of my weekly long runs leading up to my first 24-hour run: 2, 3, 6, 7, 6, 10, 11, 21, 23, 26, 21, 11, 31, 21, 23, 16, 36, 7, 20, 17, 43, 0, RACE (105). I have found that the main challenge to fueling is that while I need carbohydrates to continue running well, a carbohydrate rich diet will result in puking after 12-18 hours. So I tend to utilize a mixture of carbs, protein, and fats. It’s one of the few things I don’t quantify very thoroughly. I go by feel. When I want pure carbohydrates, I eat GU. When I want mostly carbohydrates but a little protein, fat, and salt, I eat vanilla or tapioca pudding. When I want a lot of protein, fat, and salt, I eat 2% cottage cheese. Tuna is right up there with cottage cheese in terms of protein, fat, and salt. It tastes incredible when I am running slow, but for some reason not so good when running harder. Cottage cheese always seems to taste good, even 30 seconds after puking! In a 50 miler, What pace are you running?
Run about 7-10 minute pace on flats and downhills, walk about 12-17 minute pace on uphills. How are you replenishing water, electrolytes, and carbos?
I prefer to drink plain water (or ice water). With sodium I also go by feel, either chewing up some rock salt and chasing with water, or stirring some extra table salt into my pudding or cottage cheese. Virtually all calories come from semi-solid mixtures (GU, pudding, cottage cheese). How often and in what quantities
Every major uphill, or once per hour, whichever comes sooner. Around 250 calories per hour. Up to half a gram of salt per hour in really warm weather.
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I’d be interested in hearing what some of the ultrarunners and triathletes have been finding successful in their longer races and training run and/or rides regarding their use of water, carbodrinks and other energy replenishers.
Ozzie: Here’s a repost of an "Ironman Energy Needs" worksheet posted by Rolf Arands on rec.sport.triathlon a while back. It addresses energy needs quite well. Begin repost of Rolf’s Message To all who are interested, I am reposting this handy little worksheet: -Rolf —– Following is a direct posting of this handy little worksheet that I received. I think it came from Ray’s Sport Shop, but am unsure of the actual name. Again, this is advice only and does NOT replace the advice of a qualified medical person, nutritionist, or your own experiences. Worksheet – Carbohydrate requirements for the Ironman Note – This is a guideline only but will be a good indicator of the amount of food required! 1. Conversion Factor (CF) Pick appropriate factor based on estimated finishing time: 8-9 hours = 1.5 9-10 hours = 1.4 10-11 hours = 1.3 11-12 hours = 1.2 12-13 hours = 1.1 13-15 hours = 1.0 15+ hours = 1.0 ? (information past 15 hours not given on sheet; I assume it is 1.0 also) 2. Body weight x CF = carbohydrate consumption PER HOUR ____ (kg) x ____ (CF) = ___ g carbohydrates per hour The conversion of lbs to kg for us non-Metric types: 2.2 lbs = 1 kg Thus my weight of 170 lbs converts to (170/2.2) = 77.3 kg. 3. Estimate time on the bike ____ (hours and fraction of an hour) x amount required per hour = ____ total for the bike 4. Estimate time on the run ____ (hours and fraction of an hour) x amount required per hour = ____ total for the run CARBOHYDRATE CONTENT OF TYPICAL IRONMAN FOODS Product Amount of CARBOHYDRATES Power Bar 40 g Banana 20 g Apple 10 g Leppin Squeezie/Gu 25 g Cookies 25 g + FAT! Gatorade (500 ml) 32 g Endura (500 ml) 32 g Exceed (500 ml) 34 g Enduro Booster (500 ml) 49 g – 250 g (???) Exceed High (500 ml) 230 g Coke (500 ml) 75 g + caffeine Peanut butter and roughly 50 g + FAT jelly sandwich Turkey and mustard roughly 35 g + PROTEIN sandwich Balance/PR Bars 18 g + PROTEIN + FAT For your own foods not listed and add as per the label or your best guess. Estimate total carbo consumption and divide by total time to get carbohydrate consumption per hour needed. If you hit the wall in the race then you will need more next time (sic). Good luck in your races. ——- Hope this helpful. I found it to work very well, when I followed it during the race (IMC 1995). — Some call me Rolf. Some know me as Ironman. Looking to 1997….. IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47 IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35 IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00 End of Rolf’s Post Continuation of my thoughts…… I’ve done a Half IM and am planning to do a full one next fall, so I’m giving your question lots of attention right now in my own quest for the perfect training regimen. Altho the needs for staying out 12-16 hours is different from 3-4 (or 5) for a marathon, the principals are the same. Your body doesn’t have enough energy stored to make it that long on it’s own. In a tri, you have the advantage of being able to eat on the bike which is a bit easier than eating on the run. GU seems to be popular with triathletes during the run, since it goes down well. Dave Scott used to swear by figs. The only way to really find out is to experiment during training. One concensus is that few people drink too much liquid. Most don’t drink enough. Dehydration is the #1 enemy in long tri’s. Part of my personal plans is to do a 24 hour run solo in the local Cancer Society 24 Hour Relay For Life. I’ll experiment with foods and pacing (and sleep deprivation) to see if I can get a handle on some of my questions. I plan a lot of walking in there, with a target distance of between 50 and 75 miles. I think the most valuble knowledge I’ll gain will be in dealing mentally and physically with cumulative fatigue. As to training mileage, for the Half IM I did a gradual build up over 8 months, including a marathon early on, culminating in a weekly schedule for the last month (excluding a one week taper) of 3-4 miles swimming, 150 – 175 biking, and 40 running. The bikes included a weekly 50 miler, with one century about a month and a half before the race. The longest run was 15 miles, I think, maybe less. I’d have to go back thru my logs to be sure. Like most triathletes, I’ve ultimately arrived at my training tricks thru experimentation during training. It’s such an individual thing taht it’s hard to give very specific advice. TriBop WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar 200+ listings. Beginner’s FAQ, Software Download the WebRunner Racing Utilities http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html
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I’d be interested in hearing what some of the ultrarunners and triathletes have been finding successful in their longer races and training run and/or rides regarding their use of water, carbodrinks and other energy replenishers.
For events up to 6 hours, I take only fluids and carbohydrates. For longer events, such as an Ironman (13-15 hours) or 100 mile run (28-30 hours) I eat regular food, stuff like tuna sandwiches, milk, cookies, orange juice. You cannot do an event that long on carbohydrates. I don’t carbo load for these events either. I take enough fluids so that I pee about once per hour. At night, I take mostly sugar and caffeine (soda). If it’s hot, you need extra salt too. I train as little as I need to finish these events. Currently, thats 15 miles/week running, about 60/wk biking, and weights once a week and swimming about 30 minutes twice a month. I don’t peak my mileage before a race. I try to keep it constant within a 2 month sliding window. In a 100 mile run like Leadville, I pace myself by walking all uphills and flat sections (about 60 miles) and running all downhills (16,000 feet of descent on mountain trails).
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: old enough to compete. So give me your honest opinion and : if you know of any triathalons not too far from here (tristate) : let me know. Also tips or info on how to train would be : much appreciated also. : Thaks. : Josh out. Josh- Check out: rec.sport.triathlon Janet
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a 16 year old junior attending Canfield High School, in the suburbs of Youngstown, Ohio. A few weeks past my cross country team and I ran at the state championship meet, not a very impressive showing, but we were there and did our best. This winter I’ll be on the swim team for the first time, I’ve never tried out or been on one ever before. And I’ve been cycling for a long time. Could I, if I really wanted to, possibly run a small triathalon this upcoming summer. I’m in excellent shape and improving daily. I’ll be 17 by summer, and I would think, old enough to compete. So give me your honest opinion and if you know of any triathalons not too far from here (tristate) let me know. Also tips or info on how to train would be much appreciated also. Thaks. Josh out.
Josh checkout the rec.sport.triathlon newsgroup, I’m sure someone over there could help you out. Sounds to me like you will not have any difficulty in completing your first. Good Luck!!! Lucy
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few weeks past my cross country team and I ran at the state championship meet, not a very impressive showing, but we were there and did our best. This winter I’ll be on the swim team for the first time, I’ve never tried out or been on one ever before. And I’ve been cycling for a long time. Could I, if I really wanted to, possibly run a small triathalon this upcoming summer. I’m in excellent shape and improving daily. I’ll be 17 by summer, and I would think, old enough to compete. So give me your honest opinion and if you know of any triathalons not too far from here (tristate) let me know. Also tips or info on how to train would be much appreciated also. Thaks. Josh out.
Josh, definitely go for it. You could most certainly do a tri and they are a terrific amount of fun. Since I live in California, I can’t give you any info about triathlons in your area but try posting to rec.sport.triathlon. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks there. Also check out The Triathlete’s Web at http://w3.one.net/~triweb/triweb.html. There’s all sorts of good info there. As a runner who does tris, I’ve found the biking to be one of the more important aspects. You typically spend the most time doing this. I’m a pretty slow biker and find that the run part is just not long enough for me to make up a lot of ground. I still do the tris though. They really are fun. You’ll love it. Nancy Wilkins-Diehr
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You’ll have no problem competing and will probably do very well in your age group. Check out rec. sport. triathlon.
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