Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. (1) short distance – I don’t know if this exists, but something like .5mi swim, 15mi bike, 5K/3.1mi run? (2) takes place some time in July, August – though September is best to allow me to train more. (3) within a reasonable distance from Baltimore, like maybe within a 150-200 mile radius Thanks, Pam — Pam Weller Office of Campus Technology Maryland Institute College of Art —– "My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves me altogether." "This isn’t an office. It’s Hell with fluorescent lighting."

Check out the Lin-Mark website:  http://www.lin-mark.com/  for a number of triathlons which meet your criteria…John

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Dear Pam, We may be too far but I work for a YMCA that sponsors a mini distance tri in June. This year’s race is June 19th.  Its run by the Wyckoff YMCA in Wyckoff NJ(Approx 20 miles west of NYC). If you are interested just give Nancy Repetto a call at the Y and she can mail/fax you a race form. Our number is 201-891-2081.  I hope we are not too far. Genny

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Hi. I’m considering, very hesitantly, trying a triathlon, though I’m still worried about the open swim, I only have a mountain bike at this point, and I haven’t been running much in the last 8 months due to injuries. Sigh. However…does anyone know of a triathlon that fits this criteria: (1) short distance – I don’t know if this exists, but something like .5mi swim, 15mi bike, 5K/3.1mi run? (2) takes place some time in July, August – though September is best to allow me to train more. (3) within a reasonable distance from Baltimore, like maybe within a 150-200 mile radius Thanks, Pam — Pam Weller Office of Campus Technology Maryland Institute College of Art —– "My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves me altogether." "This isn’t an office. It’s Hell with fluorescent lighting."

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Pam: You’re living in a triathlon rich area.  Lots of events to choose from. Check out this website:  http://www.erols.com/jaeger/  for several, great races in and around the Baltimore area.  They are well run, friendly, low key events.  That is not to say that there are not competitive athletes present, quite the contrary.  However, there are plenty of the rest of us too. Stacy Hills Reston, VA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. I’m considering, very hesitantly, trying a triathlon, though I’m still worried about the open swim, I only have a mountain bike at this point, and I haven’t been running much in the last 8 months due to injuries. Sigh. However…does anyone know of a triathlon that fits this criteria: (1) short distance – I don’t know if this exists, but something like .5mi swim, 15mi bike, 5K/3.1mi run? (2) takes place some time in July, August – though September is best to allow me to train more. (3) within a reasonable distance from Baltimore, like maybe within a 150-200 mile radius Thanks, Pam — Pam Weller Office of Campus Technology Maryland Institute College of Art —– "My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves me altogether." "This isn’t an office. It’s Hell with fluorescent lighting."

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Malibu Triathlon fits the criteria, except you’d have to add another zero to the mileage radius . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However…does anyone know of a triathlon that fits this criteria: (1) short distance – I don’t know if this exists, but something like .5mi swim, 15mi bike, 5K/3.1mi run? (2) takes place some time in July, August – though September is best to allow me to train more. (3) within a reasonable distance from Baltimore, like maybe within a 150-200 mile radius

Response:

Check out this website: www.triath.com This is the triathlantic association and they put on quite a few events, lots of them du/biathlons–no swimming! Oh, yeah. Also,  down here in Roanoke,VA we have a good event, the Smith Mt Lake tri, 1k S/20k B/5k R, on May 15. Email me for contact info (I don’t have it in front of me now). Wes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -However…does anyone know of a triathlon that fits this criteria: (1) short distance – I don’t know if this exists, but something like .5mi swim, 15mi bike, 5K/3.1mi run? (2) takes place some time in July, August – though September is best to allow me to train more. (3) within a reasonable distance from Baltimore, like maybe within a 150-200 mile radius Thanks, Pam — Pam Weller Office of Campus Technology Maryland Institute College of Art —– "My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves me altogether." "This isn’t an office. It’s Hell with fluorescent lighting."

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Question:

Try Roy Benson’s "The Runner’s Coach" It is real helpful on incorporating a HRM into a structured running program. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know a Sally someone has written a book on Heart Rate Monitors, but I’m wondering if any of you can give suggestions on what books are good ones to read about heart rates and HRMs. I hear a lot of conflicting information (not on this newgroup, but on the cycling and the triathlon newsgroups) about heart rates and HRMs. Thanks, Conal  – Conal Ho Graduate Student 337 Social Sciences I Department of Anthropology; University of California–Santa Cruz

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I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again; I think the Sally Edwards book is terrible! It’s all smiley, smiley, happy, happy, jump up and downey style irritates me no end, and the amount of information contained in it is negligible. The Training Pulse and Lactate is interesting and has a lot more info., but you need to read it with the knowledge that the Conconi test is neither as simple, nor as reliable, nor as based in science as Mr. Jansen would have us believe. Sorry I haven’t got a good one to recommend; I can’t say I’ve really read one! — Rod. Discoveries are made every 15 years. Yours is particularly good; it hasn’t been made for 150 years. "The Doctors Dilemma" GB Shaw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do very strongly recommend the books by exercise physiologist and world class endurance athlete Sally Edwards. All of Sally’s books are founded on sports science research and presented in a user friendly manner. Her books are progressive in nature with the first, The Heart Monitor Book, geared for those who need to know more about the monitor itself and are just trying to get started. It was originally written for Polar. The second is called Heart Zone Training. It takes you the next step into developing a personalized training program based upon your individualized goals.It is logical in its approach and should help you get moving and stay moving. The tird is Smart Heart, a work in progress in that as research brings new things to light, the book will be updated. It is for advanced training and those who are ready for more technical physiological information. There are other good books such as Training the Lactate Pulse Rate, very technical, which are terrific to add to ones understanding of why training with a HRM is so valuable and in many ways easier. You can manage you can monitor. Learn from other coaching/training books and adapt workouts etc. to the HRM. Its quite easy. Instead of time pace, us HR pace for the proper intensity. Good luck and keep reading. We are students for life. Bill Stainbrook physical educator, endurance athlete and Heart Zone Educator

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Give this one a try, "Heart Monitor Training for the Compleat Idiot", 2nd edition, by John L. Parker Jr.  It’s a pretty good book and it convinced me to get a hrm. …Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know a Sally someone has written a book on Heart Rate Monitors, but I’m wondering if any of you can give suggestions on what books are good ones to read about heart rates and HRMs. I hear a lot of conflicting information (not on this newgroup, but on the cycling and the triathlon newsgroups) about heart rates and HRMs. Thanks, Conal  – Conal Ho Graduate Student 337 Social Sciences I Department of Anthropology; University of California–Santa Cruz

Response:

I do very strongly recommend the books by exercise physiologist and world class endurance athlete Sally Edwards. All of Sally’s books are founded on sports science research and presented in a user friendly manner. Her books are progressive in nature with the first, The Heart Monitor Book, geared for those who need to know more about the monitor itself and are just trying to get started. It was originally written for Polar. The second is called Heart Zone Training. It takes you the next step into developing a personalized training program based upon your individualized goals.It is logical in its approach and should help you get moving and stay moving. The tird is Smart Heart, a work in progress in that as research brings new things to light, the book will be updated. It is for advanced training and those who are ready for more technical physiological information. There are other good books such as Training the Lactate Pulse Rate, very technical, which are terrific to add to ones understanding of why training with a HRM is so valuable and in many ways easier. You can manage you can monitor. Learn from other coaching/training books and adapt workouts etc. to the HRM. Its quite easy. Instead of time pace, us HR pace for the proper intensity. Good luck and keep reading. We are students for life. Bill Stainbrook physical educator, endurance athlete and Heart Zone Educator

Response:

I know a Sally someone has written a book on Heart Rate Monitors, but I’m wondering if any of you can give suggestions on what books are good ones to read about heart rates and HRMs. I hear a lot of conflicting information (not on this newgroup, but on the cycling and the triathlon newsgroups) about heart rates and HRMs. Thanks, Conal  – Conal Ho Graduate Student 337 Social Sciences I Department of Anthropology; University of California–Santa Cruz

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Question:

Heard a rumour that there is a half Ironman Tri in Hawaii some time around May. Anyone have any details?

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The Keahou-Kona Triathlon is on May 30th, on the Big Island. (Much of the same course as Ironman) for more info go to: http://lehua.ilhawaii.net/~kkt/ Augie Calabrese – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heard a rumour that there is a half Ironman Tri in Hawaii some time around May. Anyone have any details?

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Question:

No.  It means an easier run is easier than a harder run.  No matter what shape you’re in, it takes longer to recover from a long, hard run than a short, easy run. "Recovery rate" to resting rate may be a better measure. When I run less than half my average training run, I might recover immediately in only a minute or two; tens of minutes for an average training run; hours for a long, hard run.  Means I’m fit for the shorter distances, but not for the longer.

– -Ray Charbonneau The MITRE Corporation

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – about two months ago we finished our season..had a one month break..i started training again..and within a month my resting heart rate had gone from about 70 to 55..does this seem about right? does a resting heart rate indicate how fit you are? both measurements were taken accurately. There are a number of factors that can affect resting heart rate, some fitness-related, some not. While a change (decline) in resting HR over time can be an indication of a training effect, that is not always the case. Despite anecdotal reports of athletes with super low resting HRs, resting HR has a fairly weak correlation to fitness level, and really should not be a consideration. Rick Gerwin

And at the same time, a higher RHR does NOT mean a person ISN’T fit.  I – and another triathlete I know (David Barclay), both have higher rates than just about all the other atheletes around us. I’m a Bopper, but David’s time for an Ironman is in the 12 hour range, I believe. Mike "Hummingbird heart" Tennent "TriBop" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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I don’t really know if resting heart rate is a measure of fitness.  My heart rate is in the 90+ range and have found that when I quit smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee it went down to 64.   I know having a lower heart rate is healthier on your heart and the reduction in your heart rate is probably due to the strengthening and better efficiency of the heart from your exercising. Sorry, if I replicated previous posts didn’t have time to read them all. KR

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"brett" == brett  <brett writes: about two months ago we finished our season..had a one month break..i started training again..and within a month my resting heart rate had gone from about 70 to 55..does this seem about right? does a resting heart rate indicate how fit you are? both measurements were taken accurately.

        A low resting heart rate doesn’t neccessarily mean fitness, although it often will.           A few years ago I gave blood and had a heart rate in the 40s somewhere.  The nurse asked if I was a marathoner ;.  The only exercise I got at that time was whitewater kayaking on the weekends, which tends to be more anaerobic than aerobic.         I also get ice cold hands and feet at reasonably normal temperatures, which I think is related.           But it IS nice to be able to set off the "too low" alarm on an HRM as a barfly trick.  1.01 GCS/GO d++ p+ c++ l++ u++ e+ -m+ s++/- n- h !(f)? g+ -w+ t+ r– y?  "I want to permeate the air you breathe/slide my way under your skin/place myself behind your eyes/and watch you, watch me, looking in." Katell Keineg

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        Resting HR might be an indicator of fitness.  It can also be a sign of overtraining.  it is not unusual for RHR to decrease when getting more fit—or to increase when less fit after being fit.         However, some people just have lower heart rates despite being couch potatoes…..         I would guess that your change in HR could be a result of detraining. On a side note:  If you are going to run track or even next year for XC, do some running now–run easy, but keep running regularly if not frequently. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most medical resources refer to a resting heart rate below 60 as sinus bradycardia.  Some highly trained athletes in good health have resting rates below 40. Seems there are plenty of ‘low’ RHR athletes on r.r and r.s.t. Numbers in the 40’s being commonplace. Here’s one "highly trained athlete" (ha!!! with a 36-38 RHR. At my last sports medical check, after doing the test where he takes RHR, you do 30 squats in 45s, he retakes your pulse, then again after 60 (or was that 90) seconds, the quack’s considered opinion was "formidable" and "impressionante".  Miles – "Health Hubris??? Qui, moi??!!" — "Focus. Relaxed Form. Stay smooth. Flow. Breathe."  - gapo ‘98 Cut the .over.the.rainbow if you prefer to reply by email

Response:

about two months ago we finished our season..had a one month break..i started training again..and within a month my resting heart rate had gone from about 70 to 55..does this seem about right? does a resting heart rate indicate how fit you are? both measurements were taken accurately.

Response:

about two months ago we finished our season..had a one month break..i started training again..and within a month my resting heart rate had gone from about 70 to 55..does this seem about right? does a resting heart rate indicate how fit you are? both measurements were taken accurately.

Most medical resources refer to a resting heart rate below 60 as sinus bradycardia.  Some highly trained athletes in good health have resting rates below 40.   Of course, some medications, e.g., beta blockers lower the heart rate. Also, some diseases, e.g., heart block can result in bradycardia accompanied with blackout spells.

Response:

about two months ago we finished our season..had a one month break..i started training again..and within a month my resting heart rate had gone from about 70 to 55..does this seem about right? does a resting heart rate indicate how fit you are? both measurements were taken accurately.

There are a number of factors that can affect resting heart rate, some fitness-related, some not. While a change (decline) in resting HR over time can be an indication of a training effect, that is not always the case. Despite anecdotal reports of athletes with super low resting HRs, resting HR has a fairly weak correlation to fitness level, and really should not be a consideration. Rick Gerwin

Response:

Most medical resources refer to a resting heart rate below 60 as sinus bradycardia.  Some highly trained athletes in good health have resting rates below 40.

Seems there are plenty of ‘low’ RHR athletes on r.r and r.s.t. Numbers in the 40’s being commonplace. Here’s one "highly trained athlete" (ha!!! with a 36-38 RHR. At my last sports medical check, after doing the test where he takes RHR, you do 30 squats in 45s, he retakes your pulse, then again after 60 (or was that 90) seconds, the quack’s considered opinion was "formidable" and "impressionante".   Miles – "Health Hubris??? Qui, moi??!!" —  "Focus. Relaxed Form. Stay smooth. Flow. Breathe."   – gapo ‘98 Cut the .over.the.rainbow if you prefer to reply by email

Response:

"Recovery rate" to resting rate may be a better measure. When I run less than half my average training run, I might recover immediately in only a minute or two; tens of minutes for an average training run; hours for a long, hard run.  Means I’m fit for the shorter distances, but not for the longer.

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Question:

Century, Schmentry … how ’bout the DMD (Devil Mountain Double) at 5:00am tomorrow.  I’ve already got the bike part down, but I’m afraid swimming once a week ain’t gonna cut it.  I did a dock to dock open water in Clear Lake last month though! Tri-Nerd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just curious if anyone’s riding any centuries prior to Wildlfower. I’m gonna get one in this Saturday and see how I manage. Chaz I’ll be doing the Frank Lloyd Wright century through the hills (constantly rolling 100 miles) of Southwestern Wisconsin…based on current forecasts, it looks to be a lovely rain and wind filled day. So much for character builders. Then on Sunday, a 50-12 brick. Chaz

Response:

Hi Chaz! Thanks, I’ll pass that on to the group. We do ride up in Wisconsin starting in June and hit a number of the rolling hills. [ I was just trying to make Tribaby feel better, by de-emphasizing how we MidWesterners are enjoying relatively good weather and getting in some quality miles]. Enjoy the "Escape to Wisconsin"!! Laura (IMC 97, 98) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Tricia, Chaz isn’t the only one <g I’m riding from Barrington IL. up to Lake Geneva, Wisconsin and back on Sunday (106 miles) with our tri group, and it’s our 3rd one this year, (she said evily, knowing that it only added more salt to the wounds of TriBaby). You guys out on the coast have something we Flatlanders don’t have -namely, HILLS !! Figure our flatland centuries = 70 miles on the Coast. Laura Laura, Laura, Laura!    Y’all’s tri-group need to get your buns up into the whole SW Wisconsin area (a la Dodgeville, Platteville, Dubuque). While we don’t have the length of the hills they have out West, this area certainly has hills, and lots of’em. In fact, they are non stop rollers for 100 miles I’m going this Saturday…many of which are 0.5-1 mile 5-8% grades.  I’m quite sure there isn’t a flat mile anywhere in the 100 miles. Gorgeous country, as well. Barrington to Lake Geneva is relatively flat compared to this area, so ya just need to go the other way (NW from Barrington as opposed to NE). Chaz

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Hey Tricia, Chaz isn’t the only one <g I’m riding from Barrington IL. up to Lake Geneva, Wisconsin and back on Sunday (106 miles) with our tri group, and it’s our 3rd one this year, (she said evily, knowing that it only added more salt to the wounds of TriBaby). You guys out on the coast have something we Flatlanders don’t have -namely, HILLS !! Figure our flatland centuries = 70 miles on the Coast. Laura

Laura, Laura, Laura!    Y’all’s tri-group need to get your buns up into the whole SW Wisconsin area (a la Dodgeville, Platteville, Dubuque). While we don’t have the length of the hills they have out West, this area certainly has hills, and lots of’em. In fact, they are non stop rollers for 100 miles I’m going this Saturday…many of which are 0.5-1 mile 5-8% grades.  I’m quite sure there isn’t a flat mile anywhere in the 100 miles. Gorgeous country, as well. Barrington to Lake Geneva is relatively flat compared to this area, so ya just need to go the other way (NW from Barrington as opposed to NE).   Chaz

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Anybody else staying at the Comfort Inn in King City?  Or at the Motel 6 next door?

Best Western King City for me. Joseph C. Foster The Stanley Works "The idea is to create your own future, and not have it shaped by circumstance." – Peter Thomas

Response:

Hey Tricia, Chaz isn’t the only one <g I’m riding from Barrington IL. up to Lake Geneva, Wisconsin and back on Sunday (106 miles) with our tri group, and it’s our 3rd one this year, (she said evily, knowing that it only added more salt to the wounds of TriBaby).  You guys out on the coast have something we Flatlanders don’t have -namely, HILLS !! Figure our flatland centuries = 70 miles on the Coast. Laura – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be doing the Frank Lloyd Wright century through the hills (constantly rolling 100 miles) of Southwestern Wisconsin… Then on Sunday, a 50-12 brick. This post has been brought to you by the letter "S" which also sponsors the words "Sick" and "Scary".  Additional funding has been provided by the letter "J" which stands for "Jealous". Tri-Baby  Hey there! I didn’t say these workouts were gonna be anything but painfully slow (they are), in yucky weather (predicted rain, etc.)…I’m just trying to get one good bike mileage weekend in, then it’s taper down for me. I repeat myself: I’m scared s*less of Wildflower. You’ve at least got the experience thing and we know that counts for a boatload, don’t it? Hang tight. Referring to something you said in another post,  I don’t dare go to WF with a time goal. Just let me finish without injuring myself trudging up a muddy single track on the run. Gulp. Chaz

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 painfully slow (they are), in yucky weather (predicted rain, etc.)…

Chaz, my friend you just discribed training in El Nino! Joe Joseph C. Foster The Stanley Works "The idea is to create your own future, and not have it shaped by circumstance." – Peter Thomas

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p.s.  Anybody else staying at the Comfort Inn in King City?  Or at the Motel 6 next door? Tri-Baby

Keefer’s Inn in King City…free fatty donuts for a nice-pre race  breakfast, hot tub afterwards along with a big steak in their  restaurant… Actually, when I called them a couple of months ago, I told them  I’d prefer a room upstairs in the back facing away from 101.  They  told me everyone else wanted rooms downstairs, so as not to carry  those oh-so-heavy 18 pound bikes up one flight of stairs… -steve b

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Hey there! I didn’t say these workouts were gonna be anything but painfully slow (they are), in yucky weather (predicted rain, etc.)…I’m just trying to get one good bike mileage weekend in, then it’s taper down for me. I repeat myself: I’m scared s*less of Wildflower. You’ve at least got the experience thing and we know that counts for a boatload, don’t it?

In this case, I’m afraid it doesn’t count for beans, let alone boats. *snip* Just let me finish without injuring myself trudging up a muddy single track on the run. Gulp.

Chaz, you are so cute.  Believe me, with the training you’ve been putting in, there is no need for you to be scared s*less of Wildflower.  Listen, this is the voice of experience talking.   If I’m lucky and the weather holds over the next couple of weeks, I’ll be going into Wildflower with 800 miles of riding under my belt since pre-season training began December 1.  That’s probably equal to four weeks of your training mileage; what’s your total right now, 1500?  How about running?  I’ll have something in the neighborhood of 300 miles (as of today I have 276).  What do you have, 500 or so?  How many pounds did you say you’ve lost, 30?  From my record high weight in January I have, I will admit, lost about 12 pounds (although I kind of think a lot of that is water loss from the past two days of exceptionally hard training). Fear not, ChazMan, I think you are more than ready.  With the kind of work you’ve been doing in preparation, you’re gonna finish up Wildflower and go, "Well, now what was the big deal about THAT?" See you in two weeks! p.s.  Anybody else staying at the Comfort Inn in King City?  Or at the Motel 6 next door? Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be doing the Frank Lloyd Wright century through the hills (constantly rolling 100 miles) of Southwestern Wisconsin… Then on Sunday, a 50-12 brick. This post has been brought to you by the letter "S" which also sponsors the words "Sick" and "Scary".  Additional funding has been provided by the letter "J" which stands for "Jealous". Tri-Baby

 Hey there! I didn’t say these workouts were gonna be anything but painfully slow (they are), in yucky weather (predicted rain, etc.)…I’m just trying to get one good bike mileage weekend in, then it’s taper down for me. I repeat myself: I’m scared s*less of Wildflower. You’ve at least got the experience thing and we know that counts for a boatload, don’t it? Hang tight. Referring to something you said in another post,  I don’t dare go to WF with a time goal. Just let me finish without injuring myself trudging up a muddy single track on the run. Gulp. Chaz

Response:

I’ll be doing the Frank Lloyd Wright century through the hills (constantly rolling 100 miles) of Southwestern Wisconsin… Then on Sunday, a 50-12 brick.

This post has been brought to you by the letter "S" which also sponsors the words "Sick" and "Scary".  Additional funding has been provided by the letter "J" which stands for "Jealous". Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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We did the Tierra Bella Century. Tremendously helpful ! Which one are you doing, Chaz? Just curious if anyone’s riding any centuries prior to Wildlfower. I’m gonna get one in this Saturday and see how I manage. Chaz

I’ll be doing the Frank Lloyd Wright century through the hills (constantly rolling 100 miles) of Southwestern Wisconsin…based on current forecasts, it looks to be a lovely rain and wind filled day. So much for character builders. Then on Sunday, a 50-12 brick. Chaz

Response:

I’m taking a different aproach this year.  I’m emphesizing intensity rather than distance.  I think my strenght and speed have improved.  Guess I’ll find out on the Nasty Grade. Just curious if anyone’s riding any centuries prior to Wildlfower. I’m gonna get one in this Saturday and see how I manage. Chaz

Gary McMurtrey Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

Response:

Just curious if anyone’s riding any centuries prior to Wildlfower. I’m gonna get one in this Saturday and see how I manage. Chaz

Response:

Not doing any centuries; just long hill rides in the 60 mile range. Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

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We did the Tierra Bella Century. Tremendously helpful ! Which one are you doing, Chaz? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just curious if anyone’s riding any centuries prior to Wildlfower. I’m gonna get one in this Saturday and see how I manage. Chaz

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Question:

As an ex-cyclist who’s had the extreme displeasure of being trounced in a 40k time trial by Armstrong years ago, I’d like to maybe shed a little light. Armstrong left triathlon because at the time sponsorship was tenuous at very best-I remember him leaving the sport and he was very specific about his reasons: a world class cyclist can actually make a living at his sport. As for the speculation as to how Armstrong would fare in a "thicker" talent pool, keep in mind this guy’s VO2 max is one of the highest ever seen in Colorado Springs. Add in the intangibles such as a brutally competitive nature and the fact that Armstrong was a legitimate phenom in triathalon and I’d have to guess that he’d fare just fine. Just an opinion, though.

Response:

Sorry, Steve, Lance Armstrong was NEVER slow at anything.  He was an amazing triathlete when he started in this sport (beating well- established pros when he was only a teenager).

Alison To say that Lance was never slow at anything is untrue. He indeed won a few short races with giant leads but clearly was a very ordinary runner. I suspect he would have difficulty now after years of mega bike miles to get a good run back.

Response:

Sorry, Steve, Lance Armstrong was NEVER slow at anything.  He was an amazing triathlete when he started in this sport (beating well- established pros when he was only a teenager). Alison To say that Lance was never slow at anything is untrue. He indeed won a few short races with giant leads but clearly was a very ordinary runner. I suspect he would have difficulty now after years of mega bike miles to get a good run back.

Years and years of cycling at that level may not be the best thing for running development. I was speaking to one of Armstrong’s former team-mates on the defunked Motorola team, Steve Bauer(no slouch in the saddle himself) last fall at a press conference and he related a recent running experience of his to me. He was the first man to ride in one of these 24 hour MTB relay races last summer. They start these races "Le Mons style" with a 300 meter run to the bikes   Bauer, the one time wearer of the Tour de France Yellow Jersey, told me that, that 300 meter run was one of the toughest things he had ever done! Steve Fleck

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Furthermore, Overend is no triathlon newbie.  I recall reading something recently that said he competed in Kona a few years back. Stacy Hills Reston, VA

Well, that was in the early 80’s, I think 15+ years to be out of the sport is a fairly long time. Mark Tri-Man Linenberg                                                                            o                       __o            </_                       <           __/    /o_           (()) (())           /

Response:

Years and years of cycling at that level may not be the best thing for running

You might want to take a look at Ned Overend, over 40 biker running with the likes of the tri pros in the X-Terra series. Now thinking of tris too. Doesn’t look like cycling made him slow. Ken

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If Armstrong decides to take up the triathlon again- He will be able to run at least as fast as he ever did. Without question. Its just a matter of how fast a natural runner he is. All of the relevant physiological, biomechanical, biochemical, and physical systems will readapt to the running   Dr. Speed

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| Years and years of cycling at that level may not be the best thing for | running | | You might want to take a look at Ned Overend, over 40 biker running with the | likes of the tri pros in the X-Terra series. Now thinking of tris too. | Doesn’t look like cycling made him slow. | | |Ken, | |Notice that I said, "MAY not be the best thing" and of course you cut out the   |Steve Bauer anecdote that I added. With respect to Overend, I recall that he was |a runner before he got into mountain biking and because running is sometimes |part of an MTB race, I also recall that Overend ran regularly even when he was |one of the top MTB riders in the world. Therefore, I am not surprised at his |impressive running performance in races such as X-Terra.  An Overend-Bauer |comparison would lead one to believe that: … Furthermore, Overend is no triathlon newbie.  I recall reading something recently that said he competed in Kona a few years back. Stacy Hills Reston, VA

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That being said, I wish to take nothing away from Armstrong. He is an extraordinary athlete and one of the great cyclists of his age. I am sure that he is up for the task and it will be very interesting to see how his world class cycling skills/fitness transfer over(back, for him) to triathlon. Maybe Armstrong will have that massive lead going into the run at IMH that he needs to win. Fellow Pro cyclist Jon Hall did it at the World Duathlon Championships last year, but that was only 5K. Armstrong would have to hold on for another 37K of running. Very interesting. Go Lance!

Another intresting person to see doing IMH would be Shorter.  InsideTri reported last month that he was thinking of doing IMH and that he felt that he would still be able to run a 2:50 at IMH. Steve Fleck

Matt — — http://www.personal.psu.edu/mcb205/ <- Homepage http://www.personal.psu.edu/mcb205/triinfo.html <- Tri Page

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ve heard thru the grapevine that Lance Armstrong will be at the season opening St. Anthony’s tri attempting to qaulify for the Haw. Ironman. Though he was offered a spot he refuses to use his celebrity status to compete. He prefers to qaulify as the rest of us must, His cycling team usps is allowing him to compete..and will be doing a commercial blitz using him… something about the postal service delivers thru rain, sleet or snow…. or the hellish enviroment of the ironman…… If this is true, and one has to use the word "if" due to the proximity of Apirl 1st, it would indeed be interesting to see how Armstrong would fair in a short and long triathlon. It must be noted that, however you look at it, short or long, drafting or no drafting, triathlon is a runners game. Races are won/lost on the run. Now as I recall, Armstrong, as a triathlete, fell into the strong swimmer-cyclist, "slow" runner mode. He did well with this strategy back in the 80’s, when you could do well in triathlons by being super strong in one or two sports and comparetivly weak in the third. This is NOT the case today, particularly in Armstrong’s case at the Ironman distance where weak runners are vulnerable. Looking at the top triathletes today, you must be very strong and balanced in all three sports with an emphasis on fast running at the end. Remember that at Ironman Hawaii these days, just to get in the top ten you have to run close to a 2:50 marathon or faster, or have a MASSIVE lead going into the run. It should be noted that in the men’s race the big-lead-going-into-the-run game plan has rarely worked at IMH in recent years That being said, I wish to take nothing away from Armstrong. He is an extraordinary athlete and one of the great cyclists of his age. I am sure that he is up for the task and it will be very interesting to see how his world class cycling skills/fitness transfer over(back, for him) to triathlon. Maybe Armstrong will have that massive lead going into the run at IMH that he needs to win. Fellow Pro cyclist Jon Hall did it at the World Duathlon Championships last year, but that was only 5K. Armstrong would have to hold on for another 37K of running. Very interesting. Go Lance! Steve Fleck

Sorry, Steve, Lance Armstrong was NEVER slow at anything.  He was an amazing triathlete when he started in this sport (beating well- established pros when he was only a teenager). IF Lance ever decided to return to triathlon (I think the St. Anthony’s/ IMH thread was a joke), I believe he would change the sport, as the Germans & Van Lierde have changed it over the past couple of years. IMHO, Lance coming back to triathlon would be the coolest thing in this sport in years.  Too bad its unrealistic. Alison Keple Mill Bay, BC

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MAYBE HE JUST WANT TO PARTICIPATE!

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| | Sorry, Steve, Lance Armstrong was NEVER slow at anything.  He was an | amazing triathlete when he started in this sport (beating well- | established pros when he was only a teenager). | | |Alison, | |I seem to have walked into a real snakes den on this one. | |I did not imply that Armstrong was a slow runner. If you notice my |original post I put quotation marks around the word slow. What was meant, |and perhaps it was not clear, was that Armstrong’s run was slow relative |to his swiming and cycling prowess. Let’s be clear, Armstrong’s "slow" |runs were faster than most, but not as fast as some of the top guys at the |time. Also, the way the top triathletes train now and back in the mid 80’s |is very different. Todays triathlete is much more refined and balanced in |all three sports and if they are the very best, very fast runners. Armstrong |was an extraordinary talent at a time(1985 – 1990) when the talent pool in |triathlon was quite a bit thinner than it is now. I am sure that if he |focussed on tris today that he would do very well, but I believe that he |would have tougher time of it now than ten years ago. Nevertheless, it would |be great to see him give it a go. | Steve: Seems that if you start talking about a cyclist, the normally upbeat, we’re all triathletes so let’s be nice to each other attitude of RST degenerates into the back biting, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about because you’re only a CAT II conflagratory meanness of RBR.  Mark & Alison, nobody said Lance wouldn’t/couldn’t be fast.  Steve just wondered out loud just how fast he might be.  Chill. Obviously, there have been some other successful bike to tri crossovers.  Ned Overend is in his early 40s(?) and has been doing quite well at Xterra lately. Stacy Hills Reston, VA

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i’ve heard thru the grapevine that Lance Armstrong will be at the season opening St. Anthony’s tri attempting to qaulify for the Haw. Ironman. Though he was offered a spot he refuses to use his celebrity status to compete. He prefers to qaulify as the rest of us must, His cycling team usps is allowing him to compete..and will be doing a commercial blitz using him… something about the postal service delivers thru rain, sleet or snow…. or the hellish enviroment of the ironman……

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is this a belated April Fools joke or a serious idea? I read on his website that he dropped out of his last race in Europe because he wasn’t sure he was happy with what he was doing. It would be great to see if it is true. Chuck Heimberg

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i’ve heard thru the grapevine that Lance Armstrong will be at the season opening St. Anthony’s tri attempting to qaulify for the Haw. Ironman. Though he was offered a spot he refuses to use his celebrity status to compete. He prefers to qaulify as the rest of us must, His cycling team usps is allowing him to compete..and will be doing a commercial blitz using him… something about the postal service delivers thru rain, sleet or snow…. or the hellish enviroment of the ironman……

yeah, whatever…I’ll believe that when I read it from something official and not on around Apr 1. Now as I recall, Armstrong, as a triathlete, fell into the strong swimmer-cyclist, "slow" runner mode.

He was never "slow" in anything, he was exceptional in all three sports, he just never reached his run potential due to lack of growth and structured run training.  He won the USA sprint championship in Florida, in 1988/89 I think (second place was Mike Pigg, who was winning EVERYTHING at the time), and his training was almost all cycling (he was on the USA cycling Junior/Senior National Team), with just several weeks of swimming and running. He did well with this strategy back in the 80’s, when you could do well in triathlons by being super strong in one or two sports and comparetivly weak in the third.

Again he was never weak. How do you think that any pro would do today training mainly one sport? This is NOT the case today, particularly in Armstrong’s case at the Ironman distance where weak runners are vulnerable. Looking at the top triathletes today, you must be very strong and balanced in all three sports with an emphasis on fast running at the end. Remember that at Ironman Hawaii these days, just to get in the top ten you have to run close to a 2:50 marathon or faster, or have a MASSIVE lead going into the run. It should be noted that in the men’s race the big-lead-going-into-the-run game plan has rarely worked at IMH in recent years

If Lance was still in his premorbid state, or even now in remission, he quite possibly could have been the best triathlete ever.  I like to think that he could have kicked everyones’ butt. Name another triathlete that has won races overall in a highly competitive field as a teen?  Uh… I’m still waiting for a name… He surely is the best athlete triathlon has seen based on genetic factors like VO2 max, and watt power production/hour. Name another triathlete with higher numbers. Already having the engine, the talent just had to be more fully developed.  He developed his talent through cycling and became the youngest world cycling champion ever and has been a multi-stage winner of the Tour de France.  BTW, I’ve read in numerous interviews, that Armstrong likens his triathlon training and competition like "baby days" as compared to the effort he’s put into pure cycling training.  That makes you wonder, what could have he really been as a mature triathlete.  But, why settle for thousands of dollars, when you have the potential to make millions in another more prestigious worldwide sport? That being said, I wish to take nothing away from Armstrong. He is an extraordinary athlete and one of the great cyclists of his age.

Agreed. I am sure that he is up for the task and it will be very interesting to see how his world class cycling skills/fitness transfer over(back, for him) to triathlon. Maybe Armstrong will have that massive lead going into the run at IMH that he needs to win. Fellow Pro cyclist Jon Hall did it at the World Duathlon Championships last year, but that was only 5K. Armstrong would have to hold on for another 37K of running. Very interesting. Go Lance!

I’d love to see Lance come back to triathlon whenever he retires from cycling.  I’ve read Davis Phinney would like to do a triathlon. Mark Tri-Man Linenberg                                                                            o                       __o            </_                       <           __/    /o_           (()) (())           /

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Sorry, Steve, Lance Armstrong was NEVER slow at anything.  He was an amazing triathlete when he started in this sport (beating well- established pros when he was only a teenager).

Alison, I seem to have walked into a real snakes den on this one. I did not imply that Armstrong was a slow runner. If you notice my original post I put quotation marks around the word slow. What was meant, and perhaps it was not clear, was that Armstrong’s run was slow relative to his swiming and cycling prowess. Let’s be clear, Armstrong’s "slow" runs were faster than most, but not as fast as some of the top guys at the time. Also, the way the top triathletes train now and back in the mid 80’s is very different. Todays triathlete is much more refined and balanced in all three sports and if they are the very best, very fast runners. Armstrong was an extraordinary talent at a time(1985 – 1990) when the talent pool in triathlon was quite a bit thinner than it is now. I am sure that if he focussed on tris today that he would do very well, but I believe that he would have tougher time of it now than ten years ago. Nevertheless, it would be great to see him give it a go. Steve Fleck  

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Question:

I want to start doing triathlons, but I have one big problem. I can’t swim. I can run a 1500 in 4:30, and bike reasonably well, but after swimming for 100m, I get exhausted. Any tips and advice would be apprciated

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        Just keep swimming… when I started I couldn’t swim 25 meters without stopping, as I was a reasonable athlete, this was really discouraging. After a month of training, 1000 m. was easy and I haven’t looked back. Try taking a stroke improvement class, when you build up more endurance you can look into joining a masters swim class. For most people the swim is the hardest part to make gains in, so you are not definately not alone. Yours David Barclay IMC 1997 Triathlon: "Swim, Bike, Crawl"

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you may want to check out rec.sport.swimming for more on line help. suggested reading would be Total Immersion by Terry Laughlin (see www.amazon.com).  also suggest you join a masters group in your area. swimming istechnique, streamlining, and just plain getting used to the distance, just like running… I want to start doing triathlons, but I have one big problem. I can’t swim. I can run a 1500 in 4:30, and bike reasonably well, but after swimming for 100m, I get exhausted. Any tips and advice would be apprciated

– I swim….         therefor I am….                          wet.                                                 dan

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I second David’s advice.  I, too, had trouble swimming more than 25 yards freestyle without going into serious oxygen debt, and that was when I was already up to running 12 mile long runs.  Fitness is not the issue.  Swimming is all about technique, and technique is all about coaching and practice.  Though I haven’t had much of the former, I can attest to the improvements that practice provides.  The most important thing to focus on is consistency with your workouts.  Schedule three times in the pool per week, and stick to it, even if you spend more time in the shower rinsing off the chlorine than you do in the pool- that’s truly how I got started. Cameron "swims with cows" Martz

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David, Three  months ago I was in the same boat – couldn’t swim more than 50m without stopping – but now I can comfortably do about 2km – and have successfully done a few Tris. Just keep working at it swim 2 – 3 times a week – it doesn’t take long and all of a sudden your distance will increase dramatically. It also pays to get some good advice on good stroke technique and reducing drag in the water. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to start doing triathlons, but I have one big problem. I can’t swim. I can run a 1500 in 4:30, and bike reasonably well, but after swimming for 100m, I get exhausted. Any tips and advice would be apprciated

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I want to start doing triathlons, but I have one big problem. I can’t swim. I can run a 1500 in 4:30, and bike reasonably well, but after swimming for 100m, I get exhausted. Any tips and advice would be apprciated

As you can see this is not an uncommon problem.  I came from a running background and had the same problem.  The first day I started swimming for triathlons was the day after I had completed an 18 mile run in preparation for a marathon. Obviously, I was not in the worst shape of my life. I slipped into my swimsuit (Not a speedo, but one of those things your wear down the shore to impress the ladies), jumped into the water, reset my Timex and pushed off.  After swimming for what felt like 3 hours, and having the feeling that my lungs had inhaled the last remaining molecule of oxygen in the room about 2.5 hours ago, I touched the far wall and looked at my watch.  I had traveled the inhuman distance of 25 yards in an Olympic record breaking time of 35 seconds!!!   Today, I do slightly better. –Eric –Failure Is Not The Inability To Succeed;         Rather, The Unwillingness To Put Forth The Effort.                 Just Tri iT!

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Question:

I was standing at the counter multi-tasking. (Don’t all triathletes try to do at least three things at once in the kitchen?) I was saute-ing garlic and onion and chopping broccoli, while toasting an English muffin to pack for the next days breakfast. I got ready to pack up my mueslix cereal for breakfast and I poured the cereal into my (as of yet untouched) glass of chardonnay. Right then, I knew I had made the right decision to take another rest day. Cathy Corning

Tee-hee!  Sounds like me.  I used to judge how hard I was training by how many forks I would get out while my lunch (pasta) was cooking.  I would start with one, put it on the table, immediately forget that I had done it and get out another one……when I had three or more out in the two minutes it took to cook the noodles, I knew I was working a little TOO hard….      TriGal

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Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. After a tough race in Muncie on Sunday, I took Monday off. Tuesday   morning I decided to sleep in. I thought, well, I can always go for a short easy bike ride after work. But after work, I decided I still     felt kind of wiped out so I’d take another rest day. I felt guilty about it but I do want to at least be respectable in Chicago this weekend. I was standing at the counter multi-tasking. (Don’t all triathletes try to do at least three things at once in the kitchen?) I was saute-ing garlic and onion and chopping broccoli, while toasting an English muffin to pack for the next days breakfast. I got ready to pack up my mueslix cereal for breakfast and I poured the cereal into my (as of yet untouched) glass of chardonnay. Right then, I knew I had made the right decision to take another rest day. Cathy Corning

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I was standing at the counter multi-tasking. [snip...] poured the cereal into my (as of yet untouched) glass of chardonnay. Right then, I knew I had made the right decision to take another rest day.

funny you should mention this… i’ve always used minor household accidents and brain lapses such as this as one of my primary overtraining indicators.  when i was (over)training hard for Ironman Canada a few years ago I had several incidents of breaking glasses, dropping things, stubbing toes, etc… one actually required stitches and shocked me into taking several days off. btw, good luck in Chicago. Art Hutchinson (using my wife’s account)

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After a tough race in Muncie on Sunday, I took Monday off. Tuesday       morning I decided to sleep in. I thought, well, I can always go for a short easy bike ride after work. But after work, I decided I still     felt kind of wiped out so I’d take another rest day. I felt guilty about it but I do want to at least be respectable in Chicago this weekend. I was standing at the counter multi-tasking. (Don’t all triathletes try to do at least three things at once in the kitchen?) I was saute-ing garlic and onion and chopping broccoli, while toasting an English muffin to pack for the next days breakfast. I got ready to pack up my mueslix cereal for breakfast and I poured the cereal into my (as of yet untouched) glass of chardonnay. Right then, I knew I had made the right decision to take another rest day. Cathy Corning

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Question:

I am racing in the Panama City 1/2IM Triathlon in May.   Living and training in the Boston area, I am interested in learning of techniques people use to condition themselves to race in the heat without being able to train in the heat. A friend of mine told me that he read in Runner’s World that Ann Marie Letko acclaimates to the heat by going in the sauna a few times a week prior to racing. Any r.s.t. wisdom on this issue would be appreciated! Thanks, kbb Kim B. Blair, Ph.D.                     Senior Staff Scientist 1033 Massachusetts Ave                  (617) 354-3124 ext. 18 Cambridge, MA  02138                    (617) 491-4522 (fax)

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I am racing in the Panama City 1/2IM Triathlon in May.   Living and training in the Boston area, I am interested in learning of techniques people use to condition themselves to race in the heat without being able to train in the heat.

Here is some information from "Lore of Running," by Tim Noakes, M.D.  It agrees pretty closely with the info that Ruth Kazez posted. "[Heat acclimatization] begins after the first exposure to exercise in the heat, progresses rapidly, and is fully developed after 7 to 10 days. Only by exercising in the heat can one become heat acclimatized. The optimum method for achieving this is to train daily in the heat for 2 to 4 hours for 10 days.  Thereafter, it is lost at rates that vary among individuals.  It is best retained by those who stay in good physical condition and re-expose themselves to exercise in the heat at least every 2 weeks." "Sometime in the weeks leading up to a hot-weather race, you should undergo heat acclimatization either by running in the midday heat or by training in a track suit." Paraphrased: The 1964 US Olympic Marathon Trials were run at midday in New York City with temperatures of 96F.  Buddy Edelen won the race, despite training in England in temperatures of approximately 50F.  Edelen trained each day wearing five layers of clothing.  Ron Daws collapsed with heat exhaustion during that race but adopted Edelen’s technique in qualifying for the Olympic Marathon in 1968 and detailed it in his book ("The Self-Made Olympian" World Publications, Mountain View, California 1977).  He trained with 5 layers of clothing 4 days a week for 3 weeks.  He found it impossible to train each day with full clothing, so he trained in his regular clothes on alternate days.                                         — John — John Walker        Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers, Seabrook, Maryland

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I live in Melbourne Florida. . . . run every day at the hottest time of the day and drink lots of water.  (Doesn’t really matter, you can’t adjust to it!)  I run at lunch throughout the summer months here and a 2+ hour Int’l that starts late will dehydrate you no matter how much you try to drink

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I am racing in the Panama City 1/2IM Triathlon in May.   Living and training in the Boston area, I am interested in learning of techniques people use to condition themselves to race in the heat without being able to train in the heat.

You are probably better off if you don’t adapt.  Heat adaptation takes 1-2 weeks, and will increase sweat output and decrease sweat salinity.  For short races, adaptation will keep you cooler, but for longer races you will increase the risk of dehydration.   I live in Florida, and in the summer I can drink 1.8 quarts/hour, but lose 3-4 quarts/hour through sweat.  My best summer 5K (90 deg. F, dewpoint 75 F, May-Oct) is only 20 seconds off my PR, but I still needed an I.V. after one Gulf Coast race at only 80 F. Your best bet is to train on Gatorade, which is high in salt and used at Gulf Coast.  You want to force down as much as possible to train for increased fluid intake. A friend of mine told me that he read in Runner’s World that Ann Marie Letko acclaimates to the heat by going in the sauna a few times a week prior to racing.

This technique (with an exercise bike) was also used by some athletes competing in the 135 mile run from Death Valley to Mt. Whitney to prepare for the 125 F air temperatures in July.  A bit extreme, IMHO. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

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acclaimates to the heat by going in the sauna a few times a week

I was a participant in a study of heat acclimation.  We were all women, ranging from quite fit judged by VO2 max to extremely fit.  The study took place in a heat lab at temperatures way over 100 with high humidity.  We biked, or walked on a treadmill, at 40 to 70% of max. The least fit were acclimated after 8 sessions of 2 hours each; it took me 4 sessions.  Acclimation was judged by the ability of one’s internal temperature to remain steady at an acceptable level.  As a favor to me for having done this, they allowed me to use the heat lab before I went to Hawaii.  I never felt any heat during the race.  Sitting in a sauna is ineffective; you must be exercising in the heat. Ruth Kazez Kazez

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Question:

Greetings Fellow Triathletes, I was wondering if any of you out there on the Internet have any information about the Vineman Triathlon, e.g.:         1) Does it still exist?         2) Is it an Ironman distance?         3) Is it a Tri-Fed sponsored event?         4) Where is it held?         5) Does it include a fresh-water swim?         6) Are wetsuits allowed?         7) When is it held?         What is the entry fee?         9) Who sponsors it?         How many entrants?        10) What is the address of the Race Director, phone number, etc.? Thanks, in advance, for all of your help.

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Greetings Fellow Triathletes,

Hi Jack. I was wondering if any of you out there on the Internet have any information about the Vineman Triathlon, e.g.:    1) Does it still exist?               Yes    2) Is it an Ironman distance?

              Yes, and there is a 1/2 distance race as well    3) Is it a Tri-Fed sponsored event?               Yes    4) Where is it held?

              Sonoma County, just north of Santa Rosa, California    5) Does it include a fresh-water swim?

              Yes, in the Russian River at Guerneville    6) Are wetsuits allowed?               Yes    7) When is it held?

              This year, on July 31st, a week from this coming Saturday    8) What is the entry fee?

              I think its gone up to $200 for the full, $90 for the half    9) Who sponsors it?

              There is no big sponsor for this race, just a bunch of               little ones.    8) How many entrants?

              Hard to say.  Besides, you lost count.  This is question               number 10.  (You should still be able to enter)       10) What is the address of the Race Director, phone number, etc.?

              Contact Russ Pugh at (707) 528-1630 for info. See you at the race. AAA

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