Question:

Hey Lloyd, are you in Australia?  Out of curiosity do the race directors/organizers there not try to make a huge profit out of the races or are they getting money from sponsors to be able to keep the fees so low?  We pay through the nose in the US, you have to limit your races unless you have heaps of money to spend. Thanks, Marty Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Yep, I am in Australia. Although I am far from the capital cities, Cairns is quite different from the rest of Australia being pretty much a large regional Tourist town. We have year round good weather as it is the tropics. Cairns was also one of the first places to hold Triathlons way back in the good old days, the Coral Coast Triathlon has been going nearly 20 years. Most of our local events are held by the either the Road Runners club or the Triathlon club. The one event that is not is the Cairns 1/2 IM which was started by the Tri club but taken over later. Entry fees are low because we can avoid all the legal BS required to run events. We get reasonable insurance because people in Australia don’t automatically feel they have to take everyone to Court if they have a bad day. There is not a huge amount of sponsorship. A few years ago I was the major sponsor of the second largest 1/2IM triathlon in Australia, and event with a lot of qualifying spots for the Forster IM. The whole deal cost me less than $1000.00Aud. It hasn’t changed much, I am hitting the markets this year after a 2 year break and we have already sponsored a few major events for not much more than a basic bike is worth. One big exception is the Noosa Tri, the entry fees just keep going up, but you get what you pay. For a bit over $100 you get a whole weekend of expo’s, bike, swimming and running events and an awesome race with 3000 other people. I believe there is a certain amount of greed by race directors but there is also the ever present threat of a being sued. Lloyd

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Lloyd, are you in Australia?  Out of curiosity do the race directors/organizers there not try to make a huge profit out of the races or are they getting money from sponsors to be able to keep the fees so low?  We pay through the nose in the US, you have to limit your races unless you have heaps of money to spend. Thanks, Marty Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

The down side of all this is that the no show rate is going way up. In my AG at Vineman the no show rate was 40%!  Folks commit early and then get hurt, get conflicts, etc.  The result is races that are "full" but in reality have lots of spaces on race day.  The RDs need to come up with a way to open up some of these no show slots to serious racers who want to know that they are race ready before commiting to a race.

Simple,  allow transfers of entries, with proper documentation, and maybe a nominal fee.

Response:

I did some tris in Taiwan before and it’s only about 45.00 there and youget a 3 star hotel room for 1 night with that price. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PMcDC a

Question:

as to this current situation, especially since this seems to be a QR wetsuit, i hope the poster doesn’t sit on this problem until wildflower,

Definitely not, Dan, that’s why I posted this cry for help.  It is a QR suit and I’m quite pleased with it as a product.  But I’m having difficulty getting the technique on my own. I think the main reason this problem came up is because I didn’t get enough practice before the event ( L A Tri Series) and didn’t have time to do a good warm up at the race.  Inexperience seems to be the main factor at this point.   But my main reason for doing this race was to tune up for WF. This weekend I intend to get in some open water swimming and either work out the bugs or start working on a contingency plan.  Worst case is I’ll have to rent a sleeveless for WF. Larry

Response:

Dan: About time you returned. I was forced to pick up your slack. Now you owe me two "mai-tai’s"! Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it normal for a full wetsuit to have a noticable effect on stroke difficulty? i’ve been away visiting bike factories in the orient for the past week and have just returned to find the post, and the replies.  at the risk of sounding preachy, i might remind the original poster, and others as well, that there is a solution to problems like this that is often overlooked, which is to go to the source of the issue, the manufacturer who made the product.  often the customer calls us directly in such case as the retailer can’t provide a service solution, and we send out some other sizes and styles in order to match the customer to the right suit.  in the case of our product just not working, we have a two week money back guarantee, so that an end user won’t have to sell his/her new wetsuit as a used one if he/she doesn’t like it. i think that’s the downside of the ‘net, sometimes one is so used to getting working out their problems here that they forget the old fashioned way, which is to demand service from the provider of the product, from whence the service should rightly come. as to this current situation, especially since this seems to be a QR wetsuit, i hope the poster doesn’t sit on this problem until wildflower, there are still a couple of weeks until the race, plenty of time to have us, or the retailer, fix the problem by suggesting the right technique to putting on and/or swimming in a fullsuit, vs sizing, vs full vs john, providing other sizes or styles to provide a better match, and finally, in the last resort, sending it back for a full refund and getting an ironman/orca/aquaman, or whatever works better. i do agree with keith that our hydros can be somewhat more forgiving, since the rubber is more flexible (although in a normal situation, where it is an easy fit between customer and our patterns, there will be no real difference).  but this is really just the case in the torso, since the rubber used in the arms, shoulders, and armpits, in the ultrafull is the same as that in a hydro.  but as to keith’s point, this is yamamoto’s #39 SCS rubber that is used throughout in the hydro suits, rubber which i think is a must if you are going to spend over $300 in a suit.  i’d demand that this is the rubber you’re buying if a top o’ the line suit.  i’m sure keith agrees. qrman

Response:

Is it normal for a full wetsuit to have a noticable effect on stroke difficulty? I’m pretty sure that I’m in the correct size wetsuit but it still seems difficult to move my arms for any length of time.   Yesterday, I swam about 100 yards and had to rest.  After that, I could go 50 – 75 yards until my arms fatigued.  My arms are still sore and the whole swim was only 500 yards.  Does this sound like I just need to get out and practice in the suit or is it more likely that I still need to go up another size?  At 6′, 185 lb., the charts call for a ML – L.  Or maybe I should just forget the full suit and get one that’s sleveless. At this point, there’s no way I can swim 1.2 miles in this wetsuit.  Are wetsuits available for rental at Wildflower just in case I don’t have this worked out by then? Larry

Response:

Is it normal for a full wetsuit to have a noticable effect on stroke difficulty?

No, this is not normal. I’m pretty sure that I’m in the correct size wetsuit but it still seems difficult to move my arms for any length of time.   Yesterday, I swam about 100 yards and had to rest.  After that, I could go 50 – 75 yards until my arms fatigued.  My arms are still sore and the whole swim was only 500 yards.  Does this sound like I just need to get out and practice in the suit or is it more likely that I still need to go up another size?  At 6′, 185 lb., the charts call for a ML – L.  Or maybe I should just forget the full suit and get one that’s sleveless.

It sounds like the size is correct. Judging by the size chart, I take it you purchased a "QR". Did you buy the Standard or Hydrophobic? This could be part of the problem. In my opinion, the standard rubber suit is a bit too restrictive for use on a fullsuit. Putting this suit on properly is as important as purchasing the correct size. Try the following procedure before giving up on your new fullsuit. 1. Make certain you pull the wetsuit as high into the crouch as possible prior to bringing the suit up past the waist. (This will allow you ample room in the torso) 2. The arms of the suit should be pulled up high and above the shoulder. (It is not uncommon to have a small crease of rubber above the shoulder area) Make certain the rubber under the arm pit is flush against the skin. You can test this by raising one arm at a time, using the opposite hand to poke underneath the arm socket. There should be no space between your arm pit and the suit material. Try rotating your arms out of the water. You should immediately feel the difference after making this minor adjustment. Hopefully, this will solve your dilema. At this point, there’s no way I can swim 1.2 miles in this wetsuit.  Are wetsuits available for rental at Wildflower just in case I don’t have this worked out by then?

I doubt anyone will have rental at the race. Feel free to call if you would like a list of retailers who offer rentals from their shop. (You can do this by UPS) Good luck- Keith www.ironmanwetsuits.com

Response:

Thanks for the advice, Keith.  I’m really inexperienced in this area and not doing real good at figuring it out for myself. I’ll pay more attention to adjusting the arms next time.  I guess what I need to do is spend some time at the beach over the next couple of weeks to master the fine points. Thanks again, I appreciate your help. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip Good luck- Keith www.ironmanwetsuits.com

Response:

Is it normal for a full wetsuit to have a noticable effect on stroke difficulty?

i’ve been away visiting bike factories in the orient for the past week and have just returned to find the post, and the replies.  at the risk of sounding preachy, i might remind the original poster, and others as well, that there is a solution to problems like this that is often overlooked, which is to go to the source of the issue, the manufacturer who made the product.  often the customer calls us directly in such case as the retailer can’t provide a service solution, and we send out some other sizes and styles in order to match the customer to the right suit.  in the case of our product just not working, we have a two week money back guarantee, so that an end user won’t have to sell his/her new wetsuit as a used one if he/she doesn’t like it. i think that’s the downside of the ‘net, sometimes one is so used to getting working out their problems here that they forget the old fashioned way, which is to demand service from the provider of the product, from whence the service should rightly come. as to this current situation, especially since this seems to be a QR wetsuit, i hope the poster doesn’t sit on this problem until wildflower, there are still a couple of weeks until the race, plenty of time to have us, or the retailer, fix the problem by suggesting the right technique to putting on and/or swimming in a fullsuit, vs sizing, vs full vs john, providing other sizes or styles to provide a better match, and finally, in the last resort, sending it back for a full refund and getting an ironman/orca/aquaman, or whatever works better. i do agree with keith that our hydros can be somewhat more forgiving, since the rubber is more flexible (although in a normal situation, where it is an easy fit between customer and our patterns, there will be no real difference).  but this is really just the case in the torso, since the rubber used in the arms, shoulders, and armpits, in the ultrafull is the same as that in a hydro.  but as to keith’s point, this is yamamoto’s #39 SCS rubber that is used throughout in the hydro suits, rubber which i think is a must if you are going to spend over $300 in a suit.  i’d demand that this is the rubber you’re buying if a top o’ the line suit.  i’m sure keith agrees. qrman

Response:

One thing I forgot is that it is essential that you can find a suit that fits your body type. A suit that can’t do that will be useless and will even have a negative effect. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have been putting off buying a wetsuit but am beginning to think i should get one.  I hate the cold water, and i would rather swim in a nice cozy suit.  I am sure this has been discussed many times but here it goes again, I am wanting to spend about 200 – 300 bucks, what should brand should i look for? Thanks Again Ron C

Response:

We have sold both QR and Ironman and have had great success with the Ironman suits. Sizing has been very accurate and we have had positive feedback from customers on their Ironman suits. We also have started selling the Orca suits but that is still a new line to us so I can’t relay a personal history with that brand although it has been positive so far. If I can be of help in choosing a suit and the proper size, please give me a call. thanks, Diane Tarver http://Tri-Specialties.com 1-337-625-4214 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have been putting off buying a wetsuit but am beginning to think i should get one.  I hate the cold water, and i would rather swim in a nice cozy suit.  I am sure this has been discussed many times but here it goes again, I am wanting to spend about 200 – 300 bucks, what should brand should i look for? Thanks Again Ron C

Response:

I had QR for 10 years, switched to Ironman full siut. I set PR’s for every course, and it’s fast getting off too. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have been putting off buying a wetsuit but am beginning to think i should get one.  I hate the cold water, and i would rather swim in a nice cozy suit.  I am sure this has been discussed many times but here it goes again, I am wanting to spend about 200 – 300 bucks, what should brand should i look for? Thanks Again Ron C

Response:

Thanks for the advice, i went out today and tried on a few QR’s but ended up with an Ironman suit.  It fits a whole better in the chest area.  I did not expect the amount of difficulty in putting the thing on.  it took me a good hour to try on three different suits.  I was tired and swetty afterward, i hope with some practice and Pam spray I can get the thing on in a hurry.  I hope to swim with it tomorrow and see how different everything feels. Thanks Again Ron C

Response:

I had great results with the QR. hydro, long john. Since there aren’t arms it makes it easy to get out  of and you still have full range of motion. Chuck Garabedian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have been putting off buying a wetsuit but am beginning to think i should get one.  I hate the cold water, and i would rather swim in a nice cozy suit.  I am sure this has been discussed many times but here it goes again, I am wanting to spend about 200 – 300 bucks, what should brand should i look for? Thanks Again Ron C

Response:

i have been putting off buying a wetsuit but am beginning to think i should get one.  I hate the cold water, and i would rather swim in a nice cozy suit.  I am sure this has been discussed many times but here it goes again, I am wanting to spend about 200 – 300 bucks, what should brand should i look for? Thanks Again Ron C

Response:

Question:

Well, I think I’ve got it.  Article all suggest taking some time off but nobody says how long.  Any suggestions from those with the same problem? Can I continue to ride my bike or does taking time off mean from everything? Thanks Bruce

ITB can manifest itself in the knee and the hip area (knee being most common). My problem was the hip. I rested and iced, did the stretching and physio route. Ultimately it took a cortisone shot to resolve my problem. It hasn’t been back since. Biking did not seem to cause a problem for me – only the running. dave

Response:

Well, I think I’ve got it.  Article all suggest taking some time off but nobody says how long.  Any suggestions from those with the same problem? Can I continue to ride my bike or does taking time off mean from everything? Thanks Bruce

Bruce- I’m going to be a contrary voice in this — just another data-point for your consideration.  YMMV. For many years, I periodically suffered from ITB syndrome; in some instances, bad enough for physical therapy regimen (2 or 3 times per week, a month or so at a time).  From my trial-and-error I found:      1) If it’s serious enough (i.e., you limp thru everyday movement, have to wear an Ace brace, etc.), ask your MD for a referral to a Physical Therapist.  Ultra-sound treatments for ITB syndrome are *wonderful*!! religiously! [I imagine other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents, like naprosyn (Allieve) or even aspirin can be used -- my stomach just can't take a long regimen of aspirin and I get a photo-sensitive derm reaction on naprosyn.]  Don’t stop or reduce until you have tangible proof of reduction of inflammation — i.e., significant reduction in pain/tenderness during running.      3) At least twice daily:           a) Apply heat to ITB (10 minutes)           b) Thoroughly massage ITB deeply. (5 – 10 minutes)           c) Stretch the ITB out (5 – 10 minutes)           d) Finish by completely icing the area (10 minutes)      4) [This is the most controversial] Do not completely rest the leg for any length of time. [Shields up, Mr. Worf]  I have found it more beneficial to rehab thru the injury.  This does *not* mean to pound the pavement like a maniac.  Once you are non-acute — relatively pain-free (a few days to a week) — try a light jog until it hurts again (you’ll be lucky if it’s 10 minutes).  Then every-other day, extend the time by 5 minutes or so.  If the ITB starts hurting before time’s up — stop, spend some time doing your stretching exercises, then resume. As far as your biking is concerned, I have no data — my ITB syndrome has always been run-related and has never bothered me on the bike.  I would suggest, tho, that if yours does, try (4) above — if it hurts, stop and stretch, and resume your biking, increasing your mileage conservatively but persistently. Hope some of my (painful) experience can help you get back on your feet quickly! -Bruce

Response:

Well, I think I’ve got it.  Article all suggest taking some time off but nobody says how long.  Any suggestions from those with the same problem? Can I continue to ride my bike or does taking time off mean from everything? Thanks Bruce

All of the responses are right on.  I had IBS this spring bad enough that I missed the Boston Marathon.  I took 8 weeks off, went to a massage therapist twice a week, stretched and iced constantly!! Make sure you make a real effort to run on dirt or grass whenever possible, especially your long runs.  That will help with the high impact on your knees. Be patient, ice, stretch, and it will go away. Erik "If I thought I could run faster w/out my knees, I’d remove them!"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I think I’ve got it.  Article all suggest taking some time off but nobody says how long.  Any suggestions from those with the same problem? Can I continue to ride my bike or does taking time off mean from everything? Thanks Bruce Bruce- I’m going to be a contrary voice in this — just another data-point for your consideration.  YMMV.

I also have found that the usual routine treatment for ITB friciton didn’t help.  I went to physical therepy for 12 months (no training at all) with no reduction in symptoms.  I used stretching (made pain worse), icing (worse), massage (worse), and ibuprofin (4 x 800 g/day) with no effect.  Cheap orthotics didn’t help. Two years later, I decided to invest in expensive orthotics ($300) which eliminated the daily pain I got from standing or walking.  I then made a _very slow_ return to running.  I found that when I had ITB pain the best relief was doing full squats with heavy weight!  I guess that the stretching involved in lowering the weight, increased muscle size and/or correction of muscle imbalance really helped.  I also take glucosamine sulphate which in one study was shown to have a better anti-inflamitory effect than ibuprofin after 1 month. I bet that my case is very unique, and doesn’t apply to most people. Everything that the physical therepist reccomended made the pain worse. It took me 3 years of experimentaion to find a routine that works for me!                      James A. Palazzolo                        Center for Anesthesiology Research                            Cleveland Clinic Foundation, FF4-54                    

Response:

Well, I think I’ve got it.  Article all suggest taking some time off but nobody says how long.  Any suggestions from those with the same problem? Can I continue to ride my bike or does taking time off mean from everything? Thanks Bruce

Response:

Bruce, Rest it. Ice it. Ice it. Ice it. Ice it. Ice it. Rest it. Ice it. Ice it. Ice  it. Did I mention Icing it? Use an "ice" cup (paper cup, frozen, peel down to  expose ice). Massage for about 15-20 minutes, then lay off. Ice about 3 x per  day. Stretch. Ice it. Ice it. Ice it. You see where I am going here? Then check your  shoes .. Do you pronate? Are they worn down? You might try a heel lift (start  with a 1/4 pad). I have it and all this works. As it feels better just do less  mileage. Biking depends. Biking can cause I.T. band problems as much as  running. Good luck. Dennis IMH ‘97 – volunteering IMC ‘98 – competing

Response:

You better start being not doing a thing that hurts. . . I pushed it in 1994  when the pain started and ended hardly being able to walk for two months.  That meant no running or biking during that time and it also meant not being  able to push off the walls during swimming.  So by all means be CAREFUL!!!! .  . . That case finally healed through rest.  I had a bit of a relapse this  spring, but it went away very quickly after visiting a  chiropractor who did  some work on it and gave me some excercises.  

Response:

Well, I think I’ve got it.  Article all suggest taking some time off but nobody says how long.  Any suggestions from those with the same problem? Can I continue to ride my bike or does taking time off mean from everything? Thanks Bruce

I’ve heard 2 schools of thought on this topic.  One says that you totally stop all exercise and ice, stretch and massage it and the other says ice, stretch and massage and still do activity. Personally I sort went in between.  I stopped running and cycling to a large degree (but still did a little bit because it was duathlon season and I couldn’t help myself) and concentrated on my swimming for a couple of months. Hope this helps — Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club http://www.moreton.qld.edu.au/itc/

Response:

I had this problem for two years. I would have a lot of pain after 3 miles of  running. It was relieved after a period of time that I went to a physical  therapist. She used ultrasound and stretching, It took a while but now I can  go on 14 mile runs with no pain. I have never been a fast runner but I  appreciate being able to at least put in the mileage now.  I know solutions  are different for everyone but maybe seeing a physical therapist would be  helpful to get a knowledgable answer for you about icing , rest and such. Good Luck Lynne Mac

Response:

Well, I think I’ve got it.  Article all suggest taking some time off but nobody says how long.  Any suggestions from those with the same problem? Can I continue to ride my bike or does taking time off mean from everything?

Bruce,After having this problem over last winter I can tell you that I could not run  for 9 or so weeks but was able to bike.  I started back running 1 mile, day off, run 1.25 mile, day off, run 1.75 miles, day off, and so on. If at anytime I felt any pain I cut back.  Use ice a lot, especially after running.  this is such a "pain" but it will go away.  check out these sites: http://www.csuchico.edu/phed/atc/Projects/ITband/ITBFS.html http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/itband.html hope this helps. gil gilliland Gulf Coast 1998 IMC 1998

Response:

Well, I think I’ve got it.  Article all suggest taking some time off but nobody says how long.  Any suggestions from those with the same problem? Can I continue to ride my bike or does taking time off mean from everything? Thanks Bruce

Bruce,  The way it was explained to me, is one week of nothing but regular icing.  After that, start again *slowly* with sports that don’t aggrivate the knee (not to be confused with the aggrivation of starting slowly).  Usually non weight bearing sports are the way to go.  Continue to ice and incorporate stretching.  Avoid running hills, pushing big gears, or anything else that makes the knee hurt.  Up your mileage slowly and stop whenever you feel the annoying knee pain on the outside of the patella.   A good site to check out, if it is still around, is http://www.sover.net/~sstryker/itbs.html.     Welcome to the club. Even if you don’t win, at least you tri’d.    -The Travelling Tri Guy

Response:

The key is why did you develop the injury. Over-pronation? Over-training (increase in mileage)? If these two are negative than I suggest that you have a muscle imbalance problem. The problem is the IT Band does not stretch well as it is a long tough band. If you have tight hamstrings or tight hip flexors it may cause IT Band problems (this was my problem). Make sure that you stretch the hips, glutes, hamstrings and quads. I highly recommend seeing a knowledgable sports massage person. Deep tissue work straightened out my problem so I could resume training. FWIW, I did not run for a month (Month of July). Swam a lot. Biked, but did not use the big gears. Stretched, iced three times a day, and took Ibuprofen. The month of August, after getting a massage once a week I was able to start running slowly and built it up very slowly. I finished IMC at the end of August and had no problems and one of my better IM marathon splits (go figure). I find that I am 99% "cured" now but I have to be careful about stretching or I find it gets tight. Cheers Dalton

Response:

Question:

 am interested in what brand of energy bar is most commonly used to give one that carb boost one needs in the middle of a long run or triathalon.  I would also be interested in any other bars you’ve tried and why you didn’t like them or chose not to use them.  Thanks. Lindsay Dyce Vancouver, BC

Response:

am interested in what brand of energy bar is most commonly used to give one that carb boost one needs in the middle of a long run or triathalon.  I would also be interested in any other bars you’ve tried and why you didn’t like them or chose not to use them.  Thanks.

For runs of 50 miles and longer, I take along three brands: PowerBar, BTU Stoker, and Clif.  All are available at better grocery stores in my city. The reason for three choices is that its hard to predict just which will seem edible once I’m suffering the stress of running long distances.  For races, I’d rather skip the bars and eat salty boiled potatoes, but in a self-supported training run the bars are more practical to handle. For those who aren’t familiar with Stoker and Clif, Stoker is made like Power, a thick gunk extruded into the wrapper.  Clif is a compromise between gunk versus granola bar texture.  As such, Clif is much less likely to freeze up in cold weather. I also use GU for its small caffeine dosage, and a sport drink for low-cost massive calories. Gordon Chace

Response:

am interested in what brand of energy bar is most commonly used to

give one that carb boost one needs in the middle of a long run or triathalon.  I would also be interested in any other bars you’ve tried and why you didn’t like them or chose not to use them.  Thanks. I prefer Carbo-Crunch bars, they provide  simple carbs for immediate energy(which I normally need by the time I remember to eat), as well as a blend of complex carbs and protein for sustained energy.  Also they don’t get hard in the winter or soft in the heat, which is nice.  Also I find them more palatable then other brands when I’m running.  I also rely(sp) heavily on a fluid replacement drnk, which I believe is actually more important for me then the power bars.

Response:

Question:

Bill I agree with you 100%, and not only is there bad access to the bottles but if you ride in any mud, I hope you like the taste of it because the bottles get full of it! I have a 95 Y-22 and its the greatest bike just love it? — Happy Trails Tom Lining

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Although Trek is having alot of problems with the "96 models, the ’95’s have probably, the best durability record of any highend bike bike ever made. regards, Bill Bill, How did you reach this conclusion?  Since the bike has only been out a year, how can you say that it’s durability is the best ever?   Durability is something that is measured over time.   <snip

Tod, By durability, I am talking about the frame only.  Everything else on a bike is the same as on any other bike in the same class.  Durability of components is another topic.  Manufacturing or design problems usually show up very quickly once thousands of bikes are sold and get raced and abused.  My comments about the Trek Y are based only on what several dealers have told me and my personal acquaintance with several Y owners who have been racing their bikes. Likewise I know of several brands of aluminum bikes which have had a very I history of breakage.  You are correct in that some makers are following Cannondale’s lead and going to a limited warrantee on the high end bikes.  According to my LBS, Trek is still offering a lfetime warrantee on their ’96’s as they did on their ’95’s.  As a matter of fact the only ones who have limited their warranties that I know of sell Alu bikes. – I could be wrong.  I know that if you talk to an aerospace engineer about what is the longest lasting toughest material, he will tell you ….carbon.   Again this is anecdotal and not scientific.  All I know is I have put 10’s of ‘000’s of miles on my carbon road bike and trashed and crashed my "y" for over a year now and could not be happier.  Being happy does not mean that I amd not wrong. Regards, Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By durability, I am talking about the frame only.  Everything else on a bike is the same as on any other bike in the same class.  Durability of components is another topic.  Manufacturing or design problems usually show up very quickly once thousands of bikes are sold and get raced and abused.  My comments about the Trek Y are based only on what several dealers have told me and my personal acquaintance with several Y owners who have been racing their bikes. Likewise I know of several brands of aluminum bikes which have had a very I history of breakage.  You are correct in that some makers are following Cannondale’s lead and going to a limited warrantee on the high end bikes.  According to my LBS, Trek is still offering a lfetime warrantee on their ’96’s as they did on their ’95’s.  As a matter of fact the only ones who have limited their warranties that I know of sell Alu bikes. – I could be wrong.  I know that if you talk to an aerospace engineer about what is the longest lasting toughest material, he will tell you ….carbon.   Again this is anecdotal and not scientific.  All I know is I have put 10’s of ‘000’s of miles on my carbon road bike and trashed and crashed my "y" for over a year now and could not be happier.  Being happy does not mean that I amd not wrong.

I feel the same way.  I’ve had my Y-33 since March ‘95.  I’ve crashed it many times, and all I’ve ever done is put a couple scratches in, and even then, the paint on this bike has held up much much better than any other. I’ve also managed to pull the mega-idiot move of driving into my garage with the bike on top.  Totally worked my car over, and snapped a few things on my rack, but all that happened to the bike was to have the seat ripped off the seat rails. I’ve talked to several mechanical and one aerospace engineer, and as stated, OCLV is about as strong as it gets.  I’ve broken 4 aluminum frames, all in 1 year or less.  So, as far as I’m concerned, OCLV is the way to go.  I also know several other Y bike owners, none of them have broken the bike either, and I’ve just never heard of anyone breaking one. Now, as for warranties, I DO believe Trek has changed their top of the line bikes to be 3 and 5 year warranties (depends on the bike).  Also, the Lemond OCLV road bikes have a 5 year warranty.  Cannondale started it, and they should be commended for it.  Lifetime warranties on these bikes are stupid.  Sure, they may last that long, or they may break, but people buying these bikes need to be aware that nice light stuff tends to eventually break.  I’d hope it’d last 5 years, and really only expect my bikes to last about 3, and for most racers and high end riders, that’s generally fine.   I think there are other companies besides Trek and Cannondale that are doing the limited warranties too.  Don’t know who they are off-hand, but it’s becoming more popular.  I like it because companies like Qranc (they make bars, stems, etc.) are doing it by what they feel the part will really last.  So for example, their handlebar has a 5 year warranty, but the stem has a lifetime. Hyperion Software Pillar Group My opinions do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Software.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, here’s a new question…  All of the rest of you Y-bike owners (and quite a few other full-suspension interrupted seatpost riders as well) – how do you deal with the lack of water bottle space on the bike?  My Y22 has two mounts, one on the  seatpost and one down by the bottom bracket.   The one by the bottom bracket is okay, since you can swap the bottle down there with the one on the seatpost.  The one on the seatpost, however, does not have enough space for a full-size bottle, and even with a small bottle, does not allow you to carry a seat pack.  Short of going to a Camelback, has anybody kludged a solution that allows you to carry more than two small waterbottles? i have gotten some cheap plastic things (t that have worked well for m) from a company called delta which allow one to mount water bottle cages to the seat rails.    roger

I personally use a Camelback about 98% of the time on my Y bike, but occasionally I use the seat post mounted bottle holder.  One of the problems with the seat post bottles is seat pack and space for larger bottles, etc.   This seems kinda picky, but I also don’t like using water bottle mounts on the seat post (especially two of them like someone mentioned with one of those triathalon style seat rail mounts) as your rear shock will behave a bit differently when the bottles are full vs. empty.  It’s partially true of a Camelback, but that weight seems to be more centered, so doesn’t seem to have quite the same effect. I’d go with a Camelback anyway, IMHO they’re a better drinking system. You can carry tons of water and there are several sizes, as well as the ability to use some packs that can hold 1.5, 2, or 2.5 bladders. Finally, I saw a one-off part that I think was on Travis Brown’s race Y bike for the rear seat post bottle mount.  It positioned the bottle cage so that it was directly behind the frame, so it appeared he put one of the mounts above the seat collar, and the other on part of the seat post that stuck out the bottom.  Problem is that, at least on my size larger, the bottle cage screw holes are too close together to use this, so I think he may have had an adaptor plate there, or there’s a chance he was just using only the top seat post bottle clamp thingy.  This would probably work fine if you used a nice metal cage (e.g. an Elite or something that will provide a firm contact with the adaptor/clamp).  The plastic cages (e.g. Avenir/Cateye resin cages are superb) tend to loosen up at the screw/cage contact area after a while. Anyway, get a Camelback, you can still leave your bottle mounts on there for shorter rides or extra carrying capacity. Hyperion Software Pillar Group My opinions do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Software.

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Although Trek is having alot of problems with the "96 models, the ’95’s have probably, the best durability record of any highend bike bike ever made. regards, Bill

I haven’t heard of any problems. Could you tell my what it is about? ‘95 Trek-rider. " I ride, therfore I am"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "snip" I have been riding my Y since Feb. ‘95 .  The seat post bottle holder is nicely machined, but worthless.  So is the frame mount.  Try to grab the bottle – you’ll be lucky not to put your hands in the spokes.  The only answer is a camel back –  which I can not imagine riding without anyway.  Where else can you put a spare tube, food, wallet, minipump,       maps, rain coat etc?  BTW, you’ve bought the best bike on the planet. Although Trek is having alot of problems with the "96 models, the ’95’s have probably, the best durability record of any highend bike bike ever made. regards, Bill

I agree with Bill that the both water bottle mounting options in the Y-bikes are worthless.  I have been using a fanny pack for several years now which can carry a large water bottle on each side plus all my "stuff".  The added weight to my hips hasn’t proven to be a problem.  Now that Camelback has added storage capability to the basic model, I will probably make the switch this year.  Barry’s right about the Y’s though – it’s been a great bike.  I’m patiently waiting for it to warm up in Michigan –

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Although Trek is having alot of problems with the "96 models, the ’95’s have probably, the best durability record of any highend bike bike ever made. regards, Bill

Bill, How did you reach this conclusion?  Since the bike has only been out a year, how can you say that it’s durability is the best ever?   Durability is something that is measured over time.   Plus, when you speak of durability, are you referring to the frame, the suspension, the components, or everything as a whole?  The components are certainly not unique and can be used on any bike.   So, while the durability of the components may be good, it doesn’t make the Y-bike more durable than any other high-end bike using those same components.  A suspended bike, due to its complexity, is inherently less durable than a non-suspended bike.  Finally, carbon fiber is not an ideal frame material from a durability perspective.   Nearly all manufacturers have limited the warranty on their carbon frames to 2-5 years.  Lifetime warranties on other frame materials is fairly common. Todd Tullio’s Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, IL

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"snip" I have been riding my Y since Feb. ‘95 .  The seat post bottle holder is nicely machined, but worthless.  So is the frame mount.  Try to grab the bottle – you’ll be lucky not to put your hands in the spokes.  The only answer is a camel back –  which I can not imagine riding without anyway.  Where else can you put a spare tube, food, wallet, minipump,   maps, rain coat etc?  BTW, you’ve bought the best bike on the planet. Although Trek is having alot of problems with the "96 models, the ’95’s have probably, the best durability record of any highend bike bike ever made. regards, Bill

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Okay, here’s a new question…  Short of going to a Camelback, has anybody kludged a solution that allows you to carry more than two small waterbottles?

Barry, I had a bike where I had a dual water bottle carrier (side-by-side) mounted to the back of my seat.  It bolted onto the back of the seat rails.  Could be good for you. Jeffrey

Response:

Okay, here’s a new question…  All of the rest of you Y-bike owners (and quite a few other full-suspension interrupted seatpost riders as well) – how do you deal with the lack of water bottle space on the bike?  My Y22 has two mounts, one on the  seatpost and one down by the bottom bracket.   The one by the bottom bracket is okay, since you can swap the bottle down there with the one on the seatpost.  The one on the seatpost, however, does not have enough space for a full-size bottle, and even with a small bottle, does not allow you to carry a seat pack.  Short of going to a Camelback, has anybody kludged a solution that allows you to carry more than two small waterbottles?

i have gotten some cheap plastic things (t that have worked well for m) from a company called delta which allow one to mount water bottle cages to the seat rails.     roger

Response:

Okay, here’s a new question…  All of the rest of you Y-bike owners (and quite a few other full-suspension interrupted seatpost riders as well) – how do you deal with the lack of water bottle space on the bike?  My Y22 has two mounts, one on the  seatpost and one down by the bottom bracket.   The one by the bottom bracket is okay, since you can swap the bottle down there with the one on the seatpost.  The one on the seatpost, however, does not have enough space for a full-size bottle, and even with a small bottle, does not allow you to carry a seat pack.  Short of going to a Camelback, has anybody kludged a solution that allows you to carry more than two small waterbottles?

Response:

Okay, here’s a new question…  All of the rest of you Y-bike owners (and quite a few other full-suspension interrupted seatpost riders as well) – how do you deal with the lack of water bottle space on the bike?  My Y22 has two mounts, one on the  seatpost and one down by the bottom bracket.   The one by the bottom bracket is okay, since you can swap the bottle down there with the one on the seatpost.  The one on the seatpost, however, does not have enough space for a full-size bottle, and even with a small bottle, does not allow you to carry a seat pack.  Short of going to a Camelback, has anybody kludged a solution that allows you to carry more than two small waterbottles?

There are special dual-mounts you can buy that let you run two bottle cages off a single pair of bolts on your frame. Often used by Time Trial or Triathelets (people who can’t afford to slow/stop for water during a race).

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Question:

From the Bradley Method handbook (a birthing handbook) :   A lot of things in life are painful, and yet, nobody uses anesthetics for them.  Ever see the face on a marathon runner, or a triathlete? I love it.  I feel so experienced since I’ve run a marathon and I am a triathlete.  If only labor only lasted as long as an Olympic-distance Tri!!! TriGal (T minus 10 weeks)

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My wife was seven months pregnant with our first child when we went to Kona for me to run IM ‘94.  After I had finished, I joked that she wasn’t allowed to take longer to have the baby than I had to finish the Ironman (10:49).  Two and a half months later, she went through 52 hours of labor in order to deliver our son, Hayes. I was there for every minute of the ordeal, and when it was over, I felt really bad for ever having said such a thing, even in jest.  Not to belittle the feat of doing an Ironman, but it seems trivial to me compared to childbirth.  Even though my training time has been shot to hell by becoming a parent, my attitude towards the sport and life in general has been changed forever by the whole experience.  I will stand permanently in awe of my wife and any other being that can do that. Timothy — Timothy Gotsick

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I haven’t had any ordeal worthy of mention but I’d like to tell Trigal to take heart if you have any sprinting genes. My second baby took 52 minutes, counting from the very first little hint of an ache.  It still wasn’t cake,though.I had the impression that 52 hours were simply condensed in that sub-one hour sprint event  If this were the alt.baby.making newsgroup I would give some hysterical details of my almost-didn’t-make-it-on-time ordeal. Ruth Kazez

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If this were the alt.baby.making newsgroup I would give some hysterical details of my almost-didn’t-make-it-on-time ordeal. Ruth Kazez

Ruth,   You obviously haven’t read the header recently!  This is a multi talented group you are posting too. If you raised a sweat when giving birth then it counts as a sport. Possibly elligible for "Olympic" status! ( Ballroom dancing and curling are in!) Since we are multi-sport athletes, it is appropriate to give us the details of the "almost-didn’t-make-the-birthing" cutoff in T3. We all like a good laugh. TriDork this could be an exclusive race report!

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        I never did an IM but have two daughters. Although I don’t live with my first wife anymore, I think the hardest part isn’t chilbirth but raising a human being . That’s why you’ve changed . I respect the mother that gives life to a child and the father who guide a child to a safe pathway in life . Congratulations for your finish time !! Julio Neves, MD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My wife was seven months pregnant with our first child when we went to Kona for me to run IM ‘94.  After I had finished, I joked that she wasn’t allowed to take longer to have the baby than I had to finish the Ironman (10:49).  Two and a half months later, she went through 52 hours of labor in order to deliver our son, Hayes. I was there for every minute of the ordeal, and when it was over, I felt really bad for ever having said such a thing, even in jest.  Not to belittle the feat of doing an Ironman, but it seems trivial to me compared to childbirth.  Even though my training time has been shot to hell by becoming a parent, my attitude towards the sport and life in general has been changed forever by the whole experience.  I will stand permanently in awe of my wife and any other being that can do that. Timothy — Timothy Gotsick

Brazilian Tri-DOC Founder and Pope of the Eros Witness Church

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From the Bradley Method handbook (a birthing handbook) :   A lot of things in life are painful, and yet, nobody uses anesthetics for them.  Ever see the face on a marathon runner, or a triathlete? I love it.  I feel so experienced since I’ve run a marathon and I am a triathlete.  If only labor only lasted as long as an Olympic-distance Tri!!! TriGal (T minus 10 weeks)

I finally became a Dad on Monday 8th, three weeks early but *what* an experience! Now all this is in hindsight with the warm glow that comes with holding the 2kg scrap that is my son. All I suffered was 4hours sleep in 48 hrs and having to rush around town buying maternity bras, pads, nappies etc. It was a little harder for Alison though. Engage bullshit mode About as far as endurance event experience is useful I think is the knowledge that to some extent you can sideline the pain by concentrating on something else, this is part of the reason for doing the breathing/panting exercises. Trying to make your breathing regular and deep is something we’ve probably all done, expecially when you hit that hill and your legs start to burn. Disengage Don’t take the analogy too far though – take the drugs! Diamorphine looks great. The clenched teeth screams immediately after her waters broke were distressing for me as well, but 10 minutes later once the morphine took effect they were reduced to gentle ‘ouch’s. As Alison put it, it still hurt, but she didn’t care. One thing too look forward to afterwards is an increased pain threshold – you’ll get faster! A lot of female endurance athletes seem to come back even stronger after pregnancy. Its all well worth it though – we’ve all seen births in TV documentaries, but actually being there is just amazing. Good luck TriGal Joel

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Question:

How many miles is a 5k run?   Diane

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3.1 miles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many miles is a 5k run? Diane

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Go to http://www.french-property.com/ref/convert.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many miles is a 5k run? Diane

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Exactly the distance from my house to my mum’s. One day…

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Thanks Guys, appreciate the support! I’ll let you know how it goes! Helen Tor,Ont

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There’s a 5k coming up mid september…    Do you think I have enough time to be able to run it fully at present I can’t do very much, maybe 1 km non-stop

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No ,  Why? feel do or don’t do at all Listen you lowlife dogbreath  donkytail pigbellie littleleg nerd. You lower then a grub with the bends. greekgal   take it slow.  In my opion you do not need to go to any events yet. give yourself some time to get in shape. and allso backack old fartsniffing pervert catlicking hairballI am sucklife geek. who was talking to you anyway. Sure 5 hours 25 minutes for a flat 26.2mile marathon is not 3 hours and 25  minutes. allso  2 hours and  40 min. for a trail 13.1 mile trail-only a goat could love.’ or 2 hours and 10 min on a KISS,

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Wow  What rock fell on my head. Hope you din’t take this the wrong way, Do what  you want. greekgal.   KISS,

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No then who to say living in a winter wonderland. KISS,

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There’s a 5k coming up mid september…    Do you think I have enough time to be able to run it fully at present I can’t do very much, maybe 1 km non-stop

Hi, GG, If you’re asking if you have time to get ready to run the entire distance, I’ll leave the response to the more experienced folks. If you’re asking should you do the 5K event, YES! I’d suggest starting at the back of the pack and give the rabbits <G a clear path. There will probably be a lot of nice people at the back. I’m very (!) slow and I enjoy the events. It’s a totally different kind of run than training runs. I suggest running a while and walking a while. It really is OK. The 5K events where I felt some perverse need to run the entire way produced times that were much worse than the events where I ran for a while and walked for a while. I’ve gotten to the point where I run most of the way but it’s come after a period of time (not counting my first sprint triathalon several days ago where I mentally bonked, big time). The real advantage, in my opinion, of doing an event is the participation. Go fer it, Layne

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There’s a 5k coming up mid september…    Do you think I have enough time to be able to run it fully at present I can’t do very much, maybe 1 km non-stop Hi, GG, If you’re asking if you have time to get ready to run the entire distance, I’ll leave the response to the more experienced folks. If you’re asking should you do the 5K event, YES! I’d suggest starting at the back of the pack and give the rabbits <G a clear path. There will probably be a lot of nice people at the back. I’m very (!) slow and I enjoy the events. It’s a totally different kind of run than training runs. I suggest running a while and walking a while. It really is OK. The 5K events where I felt some perverse need to run the entire way produced times that were much worse than the events where I ran for a while and walked for a while. I’ve gotten to the point where I run most of the way but it’s come after a period of time (not counting my first sprint triathalon several days ago where I mentally bonked, big time). The real advantage, in my opinion, of doing an event is the participation. Go fer it, Layne

I would agree with that. The race experience is vastly different from training and hugely enjoyable wherever you finish. I was very worried before my first race that I’d embarrass myself in some way (memories of school sports) but once you’ve been applauded by the race Marshall at the first corner who knows the sweat on your brow is there through honest effort and hard work, no matter how long it took to reach that corner, all those fears melt away. If you don’t think you can run all the way then don’t try. Run some, walk some and stay within your limits until close to the end. Then pick it up a little if you like and finish feeling tired but strong. If you are worried that the talent level in your race will be too strong, search the net for results from last year. Odds are your worst estimate for a finish time will get you home with people around you still. charlie

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There’s a 5k coming up mid september…    Do you think I have enough time to be able to run it fully at present I can’t do very much, maybe 1 km non-stop

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Sure, just run/walk it. Lots of people do that at races. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There’s a 5k coming up mid september…    Do you think I have enough time to be able to run it fully at present I can’t do very much, maybe 1 km non-stop

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What worked for me getting 5k times down : lots of 100 & 400 metet sprints & hill runs

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What worked for me getting 5k times down : lots of 100 & 400 metet sprints & hill runs

Sounds great to hear.  That is pretty much what I do, but I found that some leg exercises out of the book "Explosive Running" help on the hills.

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Hey,     I’m 15 and I run a lot of 5K’s in Cross-Country.  I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how I can improve my existing times without running so much that I develope injuries, which has been my hurdles in the past.  Thank you for responding.

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Hi, Book : So You Want To Be A Sprinter by, Bud Winter he gives great drills to increase stride length and turnover knee lift and arm action- useable by any runner -we all need speed distance doesn’t matter – look they run 4:30’s in marathons today and your race this olympics should be run at or under 4:00 pace Bud had John Carlos – Tommie Smith – Lee Evans- and on seems forever was Great Coach. E-mail me if you can’t find copy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey,    I’m 15 and I run a lot of 5K’s in Cross-Country.  I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how I can improve my existing times without running so much that I develope injuries, which has been my hurdles in the past.  Thank you for responding.

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Hey,    I’m 15 and I run a lot of 5K’s in Cross-Country.  I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how I can improve my existing times without running so much that I develope injuries, which has been my hurdles in the past.  Thank you for responding.

It’s hard to know what to suggest without knowing what you are doing now, but I would recommend that your training include:         some light weights, particularly to strengthen your most often injured parts         One long run (60 to 90 min) per week         Two days of higher intensity running (hilly fartlek, tempo run… etc.) per week         *Easy* (slow and short) runs in between, and one day off per week. The recovery should allow you to work hard on the hard days without injury.  Those hard days will improve you performances, but only if you recover between them. Good luck

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Question:

For those of you who liked the coverage and were wondering where to get the Joe Satriani’s newest CD (self titled) has I believe 2 or 3 of the songs on it For those of you who are not farmiliar with his work, just listen to any NBC sports presentation and most likely Joe’s work will be in the background In my opinion NBC alone has made him very rich…..even though all of his CD/albums/tapes have gone over the million dollar mark. Just a little off-to-the-side triathlon info Mark F.

……. album, only, I won’t repeat the title of the particular song here ’cause I find it just a *tad* rude….;) TriBaby — "’Be a terrific innovation if you could get your mind to stretch a little further than the next wise crack." "Y’know, I tried that once, but it didn’t snap back into place." —Katharine Hepburn & Eve Arden in "Stage Door" (1937)    

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those of you who liked the coverage and were wondering where to get the Joe Satriani’s newest CD (self titled) has I believe 2 or 3 of the songs on it For those of you who are not farmiliar with his work, just listen to any NBC sports presentation and most likely Joe’s work will be in the background In my opinion NBC alone has made him very rich…..even though all of his CD/albums/tapes have gone over the million dollar mark. Just a little off-to-the-side triathlon info Mark F. ……. album, only, I won’t repeat the title of the particular song here ’cause I find it just a *tad* rude….;) TriBaby —

Hmmm,  must be talkin’ about ‘Wynonna’s Big Brown Beaver.’

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For those of you who liked the coverage and were wondering where to get the Joe Satriani’s newest CD (self titled) has I believe 2 or 3 of the songs on it In my opinion NBC alone has made him very rich…..even though all of his CD/albums/tapes have gone over the million dollar mark. Mark F.

His album several years ago, Into the great blue dream (I think that’s the title, was excellent. I think he’s from Montreal or somewhere near there. He’s a really cool guitarist and plays alot of instrumental stuff that is well….cool. Headphone type stuff athat’s excellent to drive to. TriDork

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atest album, only, I won’t repeat the title of the particular song here ’cause I find it just a *tad* rude….;) TriBaby

Oh… come on TriBaby….don’t be a baby:-) Say it out loud….you’ll feel much better, I promise. We’re all adults here. Well I like adultery at least. TriDork

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There is, of course, the Joe Satriani web page ( http://www.satriani.com/ ). Amazing guitar playing, but there is a reason why most of his tracks are instrumental. He can’t sing. At all. The tracks where he does sing are best skipped. Satriani is playing in the UK this month. So is the IMH on Eurosport. Yippee

Response:

For those of you who liked the coverage and were wondering where to get the Joe Satriani’s newest CD (self titled) has I believe 2 or 3 of the songs on it For those of you who are not farmiliar with his work, just listen to any NBC sports presentation and most likely Joe’s work will be in the background In my opinion NBC alone has made him very rich…..even though all of his CD/albums/tapes have gone over the million dollar mark. Just a little off-to-the-side triathlon info Mark F.                                                     ___o                                                      `~~               P swimswimswim__^o__ bikebikebike__() /  ()____ R               Z Umass-Dart. // "Don’t take life so seriously L               Z            /   no one gets out alive" D.L.R. E                           A runrunrun /–  runrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrunrun S                          /  

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Question:

3) I am worried about the impact on my joints from doing a lot of running.  Any suggestions on this as well? There is no mileage requirement for runners — just run as much as you want.  I run by TIME, not miles.  I run about 25 minutes, then cool down

Well not to scare you but running is tough on the joints for sure. I will be having foot surgery within the next month because of my foot problems. My foot started acting up about 4 months ago. The diagnosis was achilles tendonitis. I took medicine and rested. My foot still is not right. Come to find out I have something discovered by a doctor and it uses his name that begings with the letter H. Something like Hillers deformity. My heel bone actually protrudes further than most and the tendon has to stretch more over the heel. After years of running the tendon has become calcified. The doctor will be trimming the heel bone and removing the calcium. He said recovery may take 2 weeks to 2 months. Now the problem has always been there but the calcium developed only after running for seven years. I look forward to the surgery and my return to running. * Fido 1:345/7                                            * * Magic Castle BBS                                        * * 1-808-732-6909   "By the shores of Waikiki"             *

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Weller) writes:

Pam, I think that you are on the right track when you mentioned interval training. Despite you mountain biking and basketball, "specificity of training" dictates that the best way to get into shape for an activity, is to engage in that activity. Assuming that you are not in your "twilight years", I would recommend the following approach: Choose a period of time that you would like to execise for, as your base. Since you sound like you are already reasonably fit, you might try 30 minutes as a start.  Begin by walking at a brisk pace (4.0 MPH?) for 5 minutes to warm up the joints and enhance circulation.  Then begin a light job for several minutes; whatever you feel comfortable with.  Return back to your brisk walk, never dropping below the "walking base" pace. Continue alternating until you have approximately 5 minutes of the total time left. Begin to reduce your pace and cool down afterward.  Continue this for about 1-2 weeks.  Then, begin lengthening the jogging interval, as you shorten the walking interval, until the 30 minutes has expired. Never increase your frequency/intensity by more than 10% a week.  If you wish, you may then lengthen the total exercise time.  You may also begin to increase your running speed, after you have graduated to a full running period for at least 4-6 months. I have used this approach with many people, even some in middle-age who have never exercised before.  I have also used it myself after coming back from injuries or extended illnesses, and have only experienced a few injuries over 18 years of running.  See if it helps. Good luck… Allen Smith

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Poo on you!  While your low buget footware accomplishments are impressive, I doubt many others could duplicate them.  I also question if these

I agree with you.  The proper shoes are important.  What’s hard is to find out what is the proper shoe, given the plethora of choices.  Trial & error hurts, and it takes a long time.  You have to watch you don’t buy a shoe that corrects a problem you don’t have! A podiatrist may or may not help you decide.  I tried the shoe analysis service at Road Runner Sports with good results. -=RAP=-

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| | But you’re right.  I think training 70 miles per week is foolish | and leads to injury no matter what kind of shoes you wear. Matt, 70 miles a week is not that much. Now 140, that’s alot.

What’s foolish is setting unrealistic goals.  I doubt I’d win the Olympic marathon even if I trained 200 miles per week, so I would rather run slow consistently than run faster between injuries. Low mileage may limit your speed, but it shouldn’t limit the satisfaction you get from running.  I may not be fast enough to qualify for Boston, but I’ve run 15 marathons and ultras in the last 4 years on no more than 15 miles/week training.  So far I have found three similar cases: — A runner who completed 50 mile races on 6 miles/week (From a study    published in Ultrarunning). — A runner who finished the Comrades marathon (54 miles) on 25 Km/week    (posted in rec.running).  His training included long runs (about    marathon distance) about every 2 months, and NO cross training. — A triathlete who races at the Ironman distance on 12 mi/week running    (from an article in Inside Triathlon).  Running emphasized speedwork    and NO junk miles (short, easy runs). My own training emphasizes quality and variety, not quantity.  The five components are: — Aerobic: low impact (biking or swimming) every 1-2 days. — Strength: once a week, all muscles, 1-2 sets, 6-10 reps to failure. — Speedwork: once a week, usually 1/4 mile intervals at 1mi-5K race pace. — Racing: once a week at max effort, 5K or more. — Distance: once a month alternating 12-15 miles with 20+ miles. But don’t forget variety in all your training.  Any change is an impovement, including running surfaces and footwear.  That is why I sometimes run barefoot. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

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My own training emphasizes quality and variety, not quantity.  The five components are: — Aerobic: low impact (biking or swimming) every 1-2 days. — Strength: once a week, all muscles, 1-2 sets, 6-10 reps to failure. — Speedwork: once a week, usually 1/4 mile intervals at 1mi-5K race pace. — Racing: once a week at max effort, 5K or more. — Distance: once a month alternating 12-15 miles with 20+ miles. Some excercises seem counterproductive and some seem dangerous. Now I’m only doing lunges and thigh extensions.

Actually, weightlifters have far fewer injuries than runners.  You should exercise all muscle groups for overall fitness, even if they don’t seem to be needed for running.  You need a strong midsection (back and abdominals) to protect against back injury, especially for running downhill.  A strong upper body will help your form in the last few miles of a marathon, and help protect you if you fall, such as on rough trails.   Lifting weights strengthens tendons and bones, not just muscle, and so helps protect you from overuse injuries too.  Increased muscle mass increases your metabolism, helping to keep fat off.

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[major deletion] My own training emphasizes quality and variety, not quantity.  The five components are: — Aerobic: low impact (biking or swimming) every 1-2 days. — Strength: once a week, all muscles, 1-2 sets, 6-10 reps to failure. — Speedwork: once a week, usually 1/4 mile intervals at 1mi-5K race pace. — Racing: once a week at max effort, 5K or more. — Distance: once a month alternating 12-15 miles with 20+ miles.

Matt, I’ve enjoyed the tales of your various exploits. Lately I have found that my training schedule is moving of its own volition from one of higher mileage to one more like yours. For the first time I have recently started doing weight lifting with my legs. Some excercises seem counterproductive and some seem dangerous. Now I’m only doing lunges and thigh extensions. Any advice? -Chad

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| | | | But you’re right.  I think training 70 miles per week is foolish | | and leads to injury no matter what kind of shoes you wear. | | Matt, 70 miles a week is not that much. Now 140, that’s alot. | | What’s foolish is setting unrealistic goals.  I doubt I’d win the | Olympic marathon even if I trained 200 miles per week, so I would | rather run slow consistently than run faster between injuries. | | Low mileage may limit your speed, but it shouldn’t limit the satisfaction | you get from running.  I may not be fast enough to qualify for Boston, | but I’ve run 15 marathons and ultras in the last 4 years on no more | than 15 miles/week training.  So far I have found three similar cases: | | — A runner who completed 50 mile races on 6 miles/week (From a study |    published in Ultrarunning). | | — A runner who finished the Comrades marathon (54 miles) on 25 Km/week |    (posted in rec.running).  His training included long runs (about |    marathon distance) about every 2 months, and NO cross training. | | — A triathlete who races at the Ironman distance on 12 mi/week running |    (from an article in Inside Triathlon).  Running emphasized speedwork |    and NO junk miles (short, easy runs). | | My own training emphasizes quality and variety, not quantity.  The | five components are: | | — Aerobic: low impact (biking or swimming) every 1-2 days. | — Strength: once a week, all muscles, 1-2 sets, 6-10 reps to failure. | — Speedwork: once a week, usually 1/4 mile intervals at 1mi-5K race pace. | — Racing: once a week at max effort, 5K or more. | — Distance: once a month alternating 12-15 miles with 20+ miles. | | But don’t forget variety in all your training.  Any change is an | impovement, including running surfaces and footwear.  That is why | I sometimes run barefoot. | | #include "disclaimer.h"                |____| Matt, I don’t run just for satisfaction. In the 17+ years I’ve been running I do it to race. Not to just feel good because I run, or so I can brag about it, or whatever. I have no Olympic goals, that would be foolhardy and unrealistic. But I know what it takes to get there because I have friends who have been there. I’ve listened to their words aboout dedication and sacrifice. I run to be the best I can be. I don’t know how fast you hace raced, and if your training methods work for you then great, but to generalize about training/racing shoes etc is ridiculous. I run to be be the best that I can be. I don’t even want to know how fast a marathon can be run on 15 miles a week – sounds like a painfully slow experience.  I do agree with you on the variety in training. I incorporate swimming and Nautilus and some other strength exercises in my program. Some of the most successful athletes on the club I run for either to a large amount of cross training or are triathletes (like karen Smyers, Ann Curi). I have tried to learn from the types of work they do, quality is important, and so is the intelligent application of training methods. But, as my college Cross Country coach stressed, "there is no substitute for mileage". Specificity is extremely important to running/racing well. People like Bill Rodgers and Gelindo Bordin (Italy, ‘88 Olympic Gold Marathon) knew what type of work they needed to do to become as good as they desired to be, and did it. Granted their training may seem extreme, but it certainly gave them the results they sought. Jon Ellis

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slowly!!  DO NOT SKIMP ON FOOTWARE. The importance of footware cannot be overstated!!  Running can take an incredible toll on your knees, ankles and lower back if you’re careless. Poo!  For my two fastest 5K’s this year, I ran one in a $7 pair of beach sandals, and the other barefoot.  Supportive shoes cause the small muscles of the feet and ankles to atrophy from lack of use.  Heavy trainers cause more damage to the knees than racing flats, kind of like running in ankle weights.

Poo on you!  While your low buget footware accomplishments are impressive, I doubt many others could duplicate them.  I also question if these performances you describe might have been even better if you had better footware.  Also, since your low mileage program is legendary on this group, I wonder if you could still skimp on footwear if you increased your mileage.   Perhaps I just have weak feet, but my choice of footware is important.  I once bought a curve lasted shoe and had all sorts of problems with it before finding out I had straight feet.  A straighter shoe fixed the problem.  As my shoes get worn out, predictably I have knee problems which don’t go away until I buy a new pair of shoes. Individuals and their feet are different. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

Derrick Peterman

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The gold medalist in the 1964 Olympic marathon (Abebe Bikilo I think) ran the race barefoot (on roads) because his shoes were uncomfortable.

  It was actually in 1960 that Bikila ran barefoot to win the Olympic   marathon. In 1964, when he won again, he wore shoes.   Andrew C.

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| | did you run the races on pavement – or on the beach? | | My sandal 5K was cross country, though I have also run in the sandals | on roads.  My barefoot run was on the beach on fine, hard-packed | sand, though I also train barefoot on dirt paths and grass and | walk barefoot on roads.  My longest barefoot run was a beach 50K in | which I beat my two previous times with shoes, although I had | blisters on my toes for the last 20 miles. | | I’d like to see the fool that would train 70 miles a | week barefoot or in sandals on pavement! | | The gold medalist in the 1964 Olympic marathon (Abebe Bikilo | I think) ran the race barefoot (on roads) because his shoes were | uncomfortable. Very much an exception than a rule. Notably, the Africans that train barefoot do not run in the city, and once they do, they wear shoes. | | But you’re right.  I think training 70 miles per week is foolish | and leads to injury no matter what kind of shoes you wear. | Matt, 70 miles a week is not that much. Now 140, that’s alot. 200 miles a week and you’re looking at some of the Top Africans and people like the Bill Rodgers of younger days. To get that good you have to do the work. But certainly not in barefoot. Around here it can be bad enough w/shoes. – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –   Jon Ellis   Voice       :   617-570-6117   "…with a ring like that, dare I say it, I could rule the World!"

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Hello all, I have been recently thinking of beginning a light running regimine.  Moutain biking and one-on-one basketball are my usual forms of exercise.  I have never been a very good distance runner, but I thought if I started out a little at a time that I would get better. Here are some of the problems that I have: 1) I am at this point really out of shape, would walking a little, then running a little, then walking a little, and so on help to get me started? 2) I have never been very good at getting my breathing right.  I do okay on my bike, but when I try to do any distance running, I sometimes "forget to breathe". Anyone else ever have this problem. 3) I am worried about the impact on my joints from doing a lot of running.  Any suggestions on this as well? I don’t plan on doing any racing,  I just want something that is simple that I can get some excercise out of and enjoy. Thanks in advance, Pam

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Hello all, 1) I am at this point really out of shape, would walking a little, then running a little, then walking a little, and so on help to get me started?

this is exactly how I’ve gotten my girlfriend back into running.  She began walking a few mile..addded a .5 mile jog every other day..and now she is walikng 4 miles very day with a one mile jog every otherday.  Her goal is to be able to jog three miles evry other day by the end of the year. 2) I have never been very good at getting my breathing right.  I do okay on my bike, but when I try to do any distance running, I sometimes "forget to breathe". Anyone else ever have this problem.

Although I’ve never expreienced this, I could guess that as you  run more this should take  care of itself. 3) I am worried about the impact on my joints from doing a lot of running.  Any suggestions on this as well?

start slow  with just a mile or two evry other day.  increase your milage slowly!!  DO NOT SKIMP ON FOOTWARE.  think about it, this sport’s only real requirement is footware. $100 is pretty cheap when you consider the price tag of other sports I don’t plan on doing any racing,  I just want something that is simple that I can get some excercise out of and enjoy.

the most important thing than is to keep it fun…don’t let it become work.. if you’re sore relax..if you’re tired take a day off.  listen to your body!!  running is extremely fun when you want it to be.. it can also be a living hell which runners often confuse with fun as well Thanks in advance, Pam

Hope this helps a little Andy Hill Delhi, NY

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3) I am worried about the impact on my joints from doing a lot of running.  Any suggestions on this as well? start slow  with just a mile or two every other day.  increase your milage slowly!!  DO NOT SKIMP ON FOOTWARE.

The importance of footware cannot be overstated!!  Running can take an incredible toll on your knees, ankles and lower back if you’re careless. Also, to minimize soreness and injury, stretch BEFORE and AFTER running; stretching before minimizes injury, stretching after minimizes soreness and cramps.  A good warmup will also help minimize injury.  Warmup before you stretch (for example, walk 5-10 minutes at a good pace (not too fast), then stretch).  There is a  FAQ on stretching  in rec.martial-arts and alt.fitness you may wish to read. Finally, to minimize the impact on your joints, don’t run too much. There is no mileage requirement for runners — just run as much as you want.  I run by TIME, not miles.  I run about 25 minutes, then cool down by walking the rest of the way home.  It’s a good workout, but I can take it easy if it’s hot or I’m tired. The bottom line is, like Andy said, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! MTG

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Pam – walking and running is a good way to get started.  When I started I couldn’t run to my neighbor’s house (about 75 ft.) before I was forced to slow to a walk.  Eventually I ran several marathons.      I can’t address joint problems in that I never experienced such (at least so far!) —                       Jean Sterling                           /O/                I’d rather be butterflying

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did you run the races on pavement – or on the beach?

My sandal 5K was cross country, though I have also run in the sandals on roads.  My barefoot run was on the beach on fine, hard-packed sand, though I also train barefoot on dirt paths and grass and walk barefoot on roads.  My longest barefoot run was a beach 50K in which I beat my two previous times with shoes, although I had blisters on my toes for the last 20 miles. I’d like to see the fool that would train 70 miles a week barefoot or in sandals on pavement!

The gold medalist in the 1964 Olympic marathon (Abebe Bikilo I think) ran the race barefoot (on roads) because his shoes were uncomfortable. But you’re right.  I think training 70 miles per week is foolish and leads to injury no matter what kind of shoes you wear. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

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| slowly!!  DO NOT SKIMP ON FOOTWARE. | | The importance of footware cannot be overstated!!  Running can take an | incredible toll on your knees, ankles and lower back if you’re careless. | | Poo!  For my two fastest 5K’s this year, I ran one in a $7 pair of | beach sandals, and the other barefoot.  Supportive shoes cause | the small muscles of the feet and ankles to atrophy from lack | of use.  Heavy trainers cause more damage to the knees than racing | flats, kind of like running in ankle weights. | |      Greetings. This will sound weird but some people shouldn’t |      stretch. | | Agreed.  The last issue of Running Research News reported that | stretching before running was associated with increased injuries. | However, stretching AFTER running had the opposite effect. | | #include "disclaimer.h"                |____| | Matt, did you run the races on pavement – or on the beach? Proper footwear is important. I’d like to see the fool that would train 70 miles a week barefoot or in sandals on pavement! — – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –   Jon Ellis   "…with a ring like that, dare I say it, I could rule the World!"

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slowly!!  DO NOT SKIMP ON FOOTWARE. The importance of footware cannot be overstated!!  Running can take an incredible toll on your knees, ankles and lower back if you’re careless.

Poo!  For my two fastest 5K’s this year, I ran one in a $7 pair of beach sandals, and the other barefoot.  Supportive shoes cause the small muscles of the feet and ankles to atrophy from lack of use.  Heavy trainers cause more damage to the knees than racing flats, kind of like running in ankle weights.    Greetings. This will sound weird but some people shouldn’t    stretch.

Agreed.  The last issue of Running Research News reported that stretching before running was associated with increased injuries. However, stretching AFTER running had the opposite effect. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

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slowly!!  DO NOT SKIMP ON FOOTWARE. The importance of footware cannot be overstated!!  Running can take an incredible toll on your knees, ankles and lower back if you’re careless. Also, to minimize soreness and injury, stretch BEFORE and AFTER running;

        Greetings. This will sound weird but some people shouldn’t         stretch. I started running 2 months ago after sitting in         front of a PC for 8 months [sigh]. My routine was to do         a BRISK walk for 1 mile, stretch, run 2 miles, stretch,         and walk back 1 mile. Just like "they" say. Bad idea.         About a week into this regime, I pulled something BIG in         my knee (well, actually, below the knee and on inside) and         simply could not walk for 2 weeks without OD’ing on aspirin.         That was then, this is now: I do a FAST walk for 1 mile,         run 4 miles, and stumble^H^H^H^Hwalk back Feeling         good, and after next week (when I overhaul my diet) I’ll         start loosing this blubber [sigh^2]         So, CORRECT stretching [for me] = injury, no stretching = ok.         You milage may vary. Finally, to minimize the impact on your joints, don’t run too much. There is no mileage requirement for runners — just run as much as you want.  I run by TIME, not miles.  I run about 25 minutes, then cool down by walking the rest of the way home.

        EXACTLY! I see these clown running exactly 1.5000 miles         everyday and get a good chuckle out of it. I do about         50 minutes for that 4miles so I’ve got a WAAAYYYY to go         Well, I did one thing right: I got Jazz 4000 (sounds like a         car, I know) and they work great for me. I got a second         pair just for hikes, etc. Fine traction The bottom line is, like Andy said, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY!

        Ok, no stretching         Take care. — | http://alpha.med.pitt.edu:9000 for a peek at new sci.electronics FAQ V2.0 | ftp to bode.ee.ualberta.ca and get file /pub/cookbook/contents. Neat stuff. | Making money with CS and spending it on EE, robotics, windsurfing, & dreams.

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Question:

I would like to take this oppurtunity to thank all those people who responded to my question regarding hip-pain. I got a variety of possible causes such as: – Sciatia = advice: go to a physio – Stress fracture: advice: rest for a while, depending on severity – Bursitis: advice: take anti-inflamatory pill (ibuprofen, aspirin) – Overpronation or some other physical problem (such as uneven length of legs)         advice: see foot specialist, run on grass etc. Of these I can rule out the last one as I have even length legs and have a normal running style, also I always run on grass during training. Some people commented that it is probably not sciatia as the pain associated with this is sometimes hard to pin-point and can affect other areas, especially the lower back. I think that it is bursitis but of course I can’t be sure. Again thanx for all the replies….. Rob.

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   Fellow runners,        I have been running for some time and have had numerous injuries associated    with running (shin splints, knee problems) but last week I was doing my last    training for a local triathalon when during the run (about 8km) my hip was    hurting. There was a sharp pain on or around the top of my right the thigh bone    , this    pain was quite bad the next day (stiffening up?) but went away by the following    day, I didn’t do any more running, biking or swimming untill yesterdays tri and    at about the 5km mark the pain came back. I have no pain biking when the hip is    sore but I have never ever had this injury before.        The current shoes I am using have not coused the problem before.        Any ideas what it might be and how to prevent it happening on a regular basis?        Any comment welcomed…        Thanx in advance…            Rob.    Rob, I also do know kinds of hip pain very well. In my case, I’m quite sure it always was caused by irritation of the sciatic nerve. This kind of pain is able to reach into your toes, though the cause is mostly related to the back bone where the irritation takes place. You should take this into consideration. wolf —     … always look on the bright side of life … (Monty Python) GMD-FIRST an der TU Berlin              German National Research Centre Tel. (Berlin 030/049) 6704-2650              for Computer Science

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Fellow runners, I have been running for some time and have had numerous injuries associated with running (shin splints, knee problems) but last week I was doing my last training for a local triathalon when during the run (about 8km) my hip was hurting. There was a sharp pain on or around the top of my right the thigh bone , this pain was quite bad the next day (stiffening up?) but went away by the following day, I didn’t do any more running, biking or swimming untill yesterdays tri and at about the 5km mark the pain came back. I have no pain biking when the hip is sore but I have never ever had this injury before. The current shoes I am using have not coused the problem before. Any ideas what it might be and how to prevent it happening on a regular basis? Any comment welcomed… Thanx in advance… Rob.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fellow runners, I have been running for some time and have had numerous injuries associated with running (shin splints, knee problems) but last week I was doing my last training for a local triathalon when during the run (about 8km) my hip was hurting. There was a sharp pain on or around the top of my right the thigh bone , this pain was quite bad the next day (stiffening up?) but went away by the following day, I didn’t do any more running, biking or swimming untill yesterdays tri and at about the 5km mark the pain came back. I have no pain biking when the hip is sore but I have never ever had this injury before. The current shoes I am using have not coused the problem before. Any ideas what it might be and how to prevent it happening on a regular basis? Any comment welcomed… Thanx in advance… Rob.

Rob, I’m not a physician so take this as only a related experience.  I ran a half-marathon as a training run 1 month prior to a target marathon.  The run felt great and no pain.  Two days later after a 5 mile run I had a sharp pain at the top of my left thigh bone which caused me to have a slight limp that day.  After two days rest and no noticeable pain or soreness, I did another 5 mile run.  Again, sharp pain after the run and a worse limp. Two days rest and then I attempted my last long run of 24 miles.  3 miles into it that was it.  Extreme sharp pains with every step.  A bone scan revealed a stress fracture in the femoral neck of my left leg.  My comment is that a stress fracture in this area can be extremely serious.  If you are experiencing sharp pains I would definitely have this looked at. Terrell

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