Question:

The biathlon has shooting and skiing. When triathlons first originated was it running, shooting, biking.  Were the guns carried on the bike or on the run? I guess liability concerns made swimming take the place of the shooting?

Which triathlons are you speaking of?  The pentalon had it, along with fencing, but I don’t recall run, bike, shoot at any point.   But it doesn’t sound like a bad idea.  I’m going to think about where it could be successfully staged in the Bay Area.  And should the penalty loop for misses by on the bike, run, or athlete choice? — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

Response:

Which triathlons are you speaking of?  The pentalon had it, along with fencing, but I don’t recall run, bike, shoot at any point. But it doesn’t sound like a bad idea.  I’m going to think about where it could be successfully staged in the Bay Area.  And should the penalty loop for misses by on the bike, run, or athlete choice? —

It would sure solve the problem of drafting on the bike!

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When triathlons first originated was it running, shooting, biking.  Were the guns carried on the bike or on the run?

Somebody want to give this guy a history lesson? -Harold

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Pick up a book on the history of triathlon.  Shooting was never involved, dude.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The biathlon has shooting and skiing. When triathlons first originated was it running, shooting, biking.  Were the guns carried on the bike or on the run? I guess liability concerns made swimming take the place of the shooting?

Response:

About 14 years ago, when I last participated in multisport events, the term "biathlon" was commonly used to describe the run-bike-run events now known as duathlons.  That may be what led to the confusion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Pick up a book on the history of triathlon.  Shooting was never involved, dude. The biathlon has shooting and skiing. When triathlons first originated was it running, shooting, biking.  Were the guns carried on the bike or on the run? I guess liability concerns made swimming take the place of the shooting?

Response:

Question:

3.  Have you ever seen anyone first out of the water without a wetsuit in a race where wetsuits were legal?  Let me know when you do.

Once saw a guy come out third wearing just his speedo. Most of the field was in wetsuits. Another unusual high achievement award goes to a gal I saw finish second overall woman while riding a 26 yr. old 10 sp.

Response:

3.  Have you ever seen anyone first out of the water without a wetsuit in a race where wetsuits were legal?  Let me know when you do.

Once saw a guy come out third wearing just his speedo. The rest of the field was in wetsuits. Another high achievement award goes to a gal I saw finish second overall woman while riding a 26 yr. old 10 sp. Unusual things do happen in triathlon once in awhile.

Response:

3.  Have you ever seen anyone first out of the water without a wetsuit in a race where wetsuits were legal?  Let me know when you do.

Several times. 4.  With all this being said I would just assume that wetsuits be illegal unless the water was like 63 or something, when a suit is actually needed.

The are, but the cutoff is slightly higher than 63.  Where to set it is subjective. I’ve done an open water swim in 54 degree water without a wetsuit. It is just an added expense for those who want to win.  If my competition has one, I must too, in order to level the playing field,

Not if you’re a better enough swimmer.

Response:

… Once saw a guy come out third wearing just his speedo. Most of the field was in wetsuits. Another unusual high achievement award goes to a gal I saw finish second overall woman while riding a 26 yr. old 10 sp.

A thousand points to the guys who do the bike leg with a baby carrier on back! And I’ve seen them pass carbon bikes in the process! Tom

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A thousand points to the guys who do the bike leg with a baby carrier on back! And I’ve seen them pass carbon bikes in the process!

Wow, that is impressive. I’ve been beaten(blush) in a 10 km by a guy pushing a baby carrier.

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… Wow, that is impressive. I’ve been beaten(blush) in a 10 km by a guy pushing a baby carrier.

That is why you should carry a pump (for their spokes) <G Tom

Response:

Someone mentioned that the purpose of wetsuit was to keep you warm in the water and that using it as a crutch to help your body position and speed was a secondary benefit. I guess I will set the record straight on a few facts. 1.  Anyone will swim faster in a wetsuit than without.  The only exception to this is wearing a wetsuit in ridiculously warm water, 80 F or higher (USAT rules are for 78 anyway).  I do not get cold in the water and have had no difficulty in swimming a 1500m in water at 66 with no wetsuit.  With that being said I will always wear a wetsuit when allowed and so will anyone else who wants to swim the fastest time possible with the minimum effort.   If the water is 70 and you say you are wearing it to be warm, not to swim fast (because you already have excellent body position and are a great swimmer blah, blah, blah) you don’t need to be wearing it and you are using it just like anyone else to be faster. 2.  A full suit with sleeves is fastest, then a sleevless and finally a sleeveless without full legs.  I will rest my case on the fact that you will never see a pro in a wetsuit legal race with anything other than a fullsuit. 3.  Have you ever seen anyone first out of the water without a wetsuit in a race where wetsuits were legal?  Let me know when you do. 4.  With all this being said I would just assume that wetsuits be illegal unless the water was like 63 or something, when a suit is actually needed. It is just an added expense for those who want to win.  If my competition has one, I must too, in order to level the playing field, not because I need it to finish the swim or because I am cold. I might be an arrogant prick, but hey, somebody has to be right.

Response:

Someone mentioned that the purpose of wetsuit was to keep you warm in the water and that using it as a crutch to help your body position and speed was a secondary benefit.

Actually, no, several reminded you that going without is not an intelligent option for those of us who live near cold oceans.  No one made the claim you suggest. Of course, since you’re bringing an agenda to the thread, no surprise that you saw it.  I think it’s a bit silly to grumble about having to spend 200-400$ as an equalizer when the swim is so short relative to any non drafting race, and more so that the arms race in the bicycle side is so much more extravagent.  People spend far more money just accessorizing their mount than they do on wetsuits.     I myself wouldn’t use a suit above 70.  I pay good money when traveling to places that let me go without 5-14mm of neoprene on when I get in the water.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone mentioned that the purpose of wetsuit was to keep you warm in the water and that using it as a crutch to help your body position and speed was a secondary benefit. I guess I will set the record straight on a few facts. 1.  Anyone will swim faster in a wetsuit than without.  The only exception to this is wearing a wetsuit in ridiculously warm water, 80 F or higher (USAT rules are for 78 anyway).  I do not get cold in the water and have had no difficulty in swimming a 1500m in water at 66 with no wetsuit.  With that being said I will always wear a wetsuit when allowed and so will anyone else who wants to swim the fastest time possible with the minimum effort.   If the water is 70 and you say you are wearing it to be warm, not to swim fast (because you already have excellent body position and are a great swimmer blah, blah, blah) you don’t need to be wearing it and you are using it just like anyone else to be faster.

I’m not sure we disagree. I still say the PRIMARY reason for using a wetsuit is warmth. You only use it when the water is cool enough to justify it. Where I live, that’s 9-10 months per year. What I don’t like to see is people wearing the suit in warm water because they need it to keep their legs up (i.e. a crutch). I too will wear my wetsuit when conditions permit (and make sense). I just hate to see people "get by" with a wetsuit and never really develop good swimming skills. Of course you’re faster with a wetsuit than without. But if you don’t learn to be a good swimmer without the suit, you’re not really that fast with it either. Just another swimmer wannabe with a crutch. 2.  A full suit with sleeves is fastest, then a sleevless and finally a sleeveless without full legs.  I will rest my case on the fact that you will never see a pro in a wetsuit legal race with anything other than a fullsuit.

And they are VERY accomplished swimmers without the suit too. 3.  Have you ever seen anyone first out of the water without a wetsuit in a race where wetsuits were legal?  Let me know when you do.

Have you ever seen a weak swimmer with a wetsuit beat a strong swimmer without? 4.  With all this being said I would just assume that wetsuits be illegal unless the water was like 63 or something, when a suit is actually needed. It is just an added expense for those who want to win.  If my competition has one, I must too, in order to level the playing field, not because I need it to finish the swim or because I am cold.

Actually, I’m a Florida boy. Water below 72 degrees is freezing!!!! I might be an arrogant prick, but hey, somebody has to be right.

Gee, I wasn’t trying to offend! Guess I’m the AP… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

I think that the only dudes who learn martial arts are the ones that are too stupid to learn to shoot.   Shoot what?

trdina is an American, they all talk like that.

Response:

I think you hit the nail on the head. Roadies ride close together and like going around sharp corners really fast. They don’t want someone with on a bad handling tri bike with their hands way out on the aerobars far away from the brakes riding close to them.

That’s because road racing is the last refuge of people with zero motor skills. I am still amazed at how many otherwise successful road racers don’t know how to ride out of the saddle, pedal faster that 90 rpm, or even ride no hands. -ilan

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In my opinion, roadies are mostly stuck-up jackasses.  Everytime they pass in the opposite direction, I nod or signal hello, and rarely do I ever get a response in return.  I came from a running background and it was normal to get a hello back.  The roadies seem to be a bunch of prima donnas.

So easy for ballsy anonymous people to take potshots and make stupid generalizations. Ken

Response:

[Two obvious trolls deleted] You have some stupid route or two that you ride to see if you can do a Personal Best. The Personal Best concept is a little girly thing by the way.

Those who don’t have PRs for a given course or distance aren’t racers.   I suppose it could be hard for road cyclists to have one if they rely on a pack to break wind for them most of the time.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

Response:

i’m not sure what the big deal is either. i do both. have friends that are roadies and friends that are triathletes. there also tends to be the same type of thinking among roadies and mountain bikers. i think it’s like any other prejudice, half of it is just not understanding the other group and creating a bias among what you know. most competitive mountain bikers cross train on road bikes, and the greatest roadie of all, lance armstrong, started as a triathlete.

Let’s not get too carried away here.  In the "greatest roadie of all" list there are many, many names ahead of Armstrong! Michael.

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Tell that to Lance Armstrong who keeps track of a personal best time up a local climb near Nice in order to measure of his fitness. I wish I were as "girly" as LA. -Fred – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have some stupid route or two that you ride to see if you can do a Personal Best. The Personal Best concept is a little girly thing by the way.

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I wish I were as "girly" as LA.

You what to know something Fredly? This is the only difference between Lance and me. http://www.amgen.com/product/epogenHome.html

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I think that the only dudes who learn martial arts are the ones that are too stupid to learn to shoot.

  Shoot what?

Response:

You Tri-Freds will never get a response from me, ever!

Nor I, I am above that sort of thing. You tri-geeks look so damn stupid on your squid bikes,

And you on your rusty old Italian boat anchors  wearing shit like sleeveless muscle shirts.

If I was a skinny little roadie I woudn’t want to show off my muscles either.  Your always overgeared, Big Legs, big gears  look totally lame lying out on those geek bars,

As we glide past you  and don’t have any idea of real riding because you’re always just plodding along avoiding any route that has a hill on it.

We prefer mountains You have some stupid route or two that you ride to see if you can do a Personal Best. The Personal Best concept is a little girly thing by the way.

My personal best is when I whiz by a group of bumblebeedressedweenieroadies on my daily ride quicker than the day before. This is all silly though, everyone knows Mountain bikers are the coolest. Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

What is the deal with Roadies & Triathletes?  When Roadies find out your a Triathlete, they act like you have no business on a bike and also act like a tri-bike is some bastard child of engineering.  I respect both sports (I tend to gravitate toward the tri because that is what I do) but I also see fellow triathletes saying things like "drop him in the water and he will sink like a rock" about Roadies.  Why the big beef?

Bob Schwartz is willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Use of Occam’s Razor, however, would suggest that you really _are_ that pathetic. *STROPSTROPSTROPSTROP* "Ready now, Sir?" *THWIT…THUNK* *DRIPDRIPDRIPDRIP……*

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Seriously, I train with roadies….on my ROAD bike.  Taking your tri-sprint bike out on a group ride with a bunch of roadies is just a bad idea all around.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Roadies ride close together and like going around sharp corners really fast. They don’t want someone with on a bad handling tri bike with their hands way out on the aerobars far away from the brakes riding close to them.

Response:

You’re all wussies.  Real men don’t need all this shit.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the deal with Roadies & Triathletes?  When Roadies find out your a Triathlete, they act like you have no business on a bike and also act like a tri-bike is some bastard child of engineering.  I respect both sports (I tend to gravitate toward the tri because that is what I do) but I also see fellow triathletes saying things like "drop him in the water and he will sink like a rock" about Roadies.  Why the big beef? (have fun Brian W)

Response:

Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the deal with Roadies & Triathletes?  When Roadies find out your a Triathlete, they act like you have no business on a bike and also act like a tri-bike is some bastard child of engineering.  I respect both sports (I tend to gravitate toward the tri because that is what I do) but I also see fellow triathletes saying things like "drop him in the water and he will sink like a rock" about Roadies.  Why the big beef? Bob Schwartz is willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Use of Occam’s Razor, however, would suggest that you really _are_ that pathetic. *STROPSTROPSTROPSTROP* "Ready now, Sir?" *THWIT…THUNK* *DRIPDRIPDRIPDRIP……*

Response:

Point proven.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re all wussies.  Real men don’t need all this shit. What is the deal with Roadies & Triathletes?  When Roadies find out your a Triathlete, they act like you have no business on a bike and also act like a tri-bike is some bastard child of engineering.  I respect both sports (I tend to gravitate toward the tri because that is what I do) but I also see fellow triathletes saying things like "drop him in the water and he will sink like a rock" about Roadies.  Why the big beef? (have fun Brian W)

Response:

As far as the wussie comment.  It depends on what you define as a wussie. Before I began the challenge of triathlons, I thought most endurance athletes were wussies (this coming from a 5′11" 190lbs Jujitsu competitor) since they had no build and couldn’t fight.  For that matter, I maintained the belief that most other athletes were wussie with all the rules that are "leaned upon" in their sports (boxing, judo, etc.).  With age and wisdom mounting, I find that any competitor should be given due respect.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re all wussies.  Real men don’t need all this shit. What is the deal with Roadies & Triathletes?  When Roadies find out your a Triathlete, they act like you have no business on a bike and also act like a tri-bike is some bastard child of engineering.  I respect both sports (I tend to gravitate toward the tri because that is what I do) but I also see fellow triathletes saying things like "drop him in the water and he will sink like a rock" about Roadies.  Why the big beef? (have fun Brian W)

Response:

In my opinion, roadies are mostly stuck-up jackasses.  Everytime they pass in the opposite direction, I nod or signal hello, and rarely do I ever get a response in return.  I came from a running background and it was normal to get a hello back.  The roadies seem to be a bunch of prima donnas.

You Tri-Freds will never get a response from me, ever! You tri-geeks look so damn stupid on your squid bikes, wearing shit like sleeveless muscle shirts. Your always overgeared, look totally lame lying out on those geek bars, and don’t have any idea of real riding because you’re always just plodding along avoiding any route that has a hill on it. You have some stupid route or two that you ride to see if you can do a Personal Best. The Personal Best concept is a little girly thing by the way.

Response:

i’m not sure what the big deal is either. i do both. have friends that are roadies and friends that are triathletes. there also tends to be the same type of thinking among roadies and mountain bikers. i think it’s like any other prejudice, half of it is just not understanding the other group and creating a bias among what you know. most competitive mountain bikers cross train on road bikes, and the greatest roadie of all, lance armstrong, started as a triathlete. tribro3 http://www.trifuel.com/ "feed the passion"

Response:

I thought most endurance athletes were wussies (this coming from a 5′11" 190lbs Jujitsu competitor) since they had no build and couldn’t fight.

I think that the only dudes who learn martial arts are the ones that are too stupid to learn to shoot.

Response:

In my opinion, roadies are mostly stuck-up jackasses.  Everytime they pass in the opposite direction, I nod or signal hello, and rarely do I ever get a response in return.  I came from a running background and it was normal to get a hello back.  The roadies seem to be a bunch of prima donnas.

Response:

What is the deal with Roadies & Triathletes?  When Roadies find out your a Triathlete, they act like you have no business on a bike and also act like a tri-bike is some bastard child of engineering.  I respect both sports (I tend to gravitate toward the tri because that is what I do) but I also see fellow triathletes saying things like "drop him in the water and he will sink like a rock" about Roadies.  Why the big beef? (have fun Brian W)

OK, this was a conscious troll, but it allows me to get something off my chest. In my opinion, a significant percentage of US amateur racers are what I call "sullen Cat 3’s". These are guys who train 300 miles a week and do nothing else, hardly ever talk, and who consider anyone who actually thinks and talks about racing as below contempt. These guys are really strong, but never upgrade because their idea of being a good cyclist is to have taken the longest and hardest pull on the training ride, as in: "Oh yeah, that guy, he’s really weak because he was on the Noon Ride and he was never able to take a pull" when talking about a successful Cat 2 sprinter. Anyway, such people probably among the road cyclists who look down on triathletes. On the other hand, there are also a number of triathletes who are not progressing because they refuse to train with road cyclists in the mistaken belief that improvement in time trialing can only occur if you strictly avoid drafting. This is obviously incorrect, for example, the best time trialists in the world are the Tour de France winners, who spend 99% of the race drafting. -ilan

Response:

What is the deal with Roadies & Triathletes?  When Roadies find out your a Triathlete, they act like you have no business on a bike and also act like a tri-bike is some bastard child of engineering.  I respect both sports (I tend to gravitate toward the tri because that is what I do) but I also see fellow triathletes saying things like "drop him in the water and he will sink like a rock" about Roadies.  Why the big beef? (have fun Brian W)

Response:

egos man…or inadequate manhood (i’ve never came across an elitist female tri or road rider). i think many people have to make up for their deficiencies and insecurities by insulting others. the same thing happens with skiers and snowboarders. I do both (skiing and snowboarding and road cycling and triathlon) and I agree with you…they are both fantastic and fun. so why be negative at all? i’d wager that a good majority of skiers have never tried snowboarding. i would also wager that many roadies cap on triathletes because they themselves can’t swim or run well. IMHO, i do think that triathlete resentment of roadies is a product of roadie elitism. heck, when i am on my roadbike i feel like there are jerks out there who look down on me because my bike’s not as nice or i’m not carrying 25MPH. the irony is that if my bike is nicer than theirs or i am going faster than them, there are those that look down on me all the same. that being said, there are a fair number of jerks out there on snowboards (and bikes) who are destructive and very inconsiderate. to me, they are just like the elitists. they think that they are better than everyone else and in some way entitled to acting that way. this is a larger societal issue. people these days just don’t take responsibility for their own actions like they should. it’s much to easy to blame someone else. my two cents: just ignore people like that and have fun man. they are the same self-absorded, issue-laden humans who make your job intolerable, drive like idiots, talk loudly on their cell phones in public places, stand in hallways…the list can go on and on. ride whatever bike you want to be on. don’t care if you have rolf wheels or 32 box rimed, carbon frames or steel, campy or ergo, drops or aero bars, 650 or 700, castelli bibs or Wilson tennis shorts…who cares? just enjoy the ride.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the deal with Roadies & Triathletes?  When Roadies find out your a Triathlete, they act like you have no business on a bike and also act like a tri-bike is some bastard child of engineering.  I respect both sports (I tend to gravitate toward the tri because that is what I do) but I also see fellow triathletes saying things like "drop him in the water and he will sink like a rock" about Roadies.  Why the big beef? (have fun Brian W)

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[ snip ] As trolls go, that was pretty lame. Try harder. Look up some of Ronde Champ’s stuff on Google for examples. You’ve got lots of room for improvement. It’s hard to take "Hey, why are <insert group that you don’t like here such assholes" trolls seriously because it shows you are not willing to work to squeeze out a prize winner. Bob "Criticism makes you stronger" Schwartz

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Granted the lure could be a little more tasty, but patience is a virtue. I’ve hooked some good ones with a worm & bobber.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [ snip ] As trolls go, that was pretty lame. Try harder. Look up some of Ronde Champ’s stuff on Google for examples. You’ve got lots of room for improvement. It’s hard to take "Hey, why are <insert group that you don’t like here such assholes" trolls seriously because it shows you are not willing to work to squeeze out a prize winner. Bob "Criticism makes you stronger" Schwartz

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The roadies are just jealous…they used to run but they’ve got bad knees now.  Or perhaps their lower backs are out of whack.  What really happened was that they never made varsity cross country in high school and they’re still pissed off about it.  As far as your comment about swimming, triathletes can’t swim either without our wetsuits…so we can’t cap on them about that.  Actually the swimmers are almost as annoying as the roadies.  Especially the ones in masters who did 25-50 sprint events in college and can damn near lap me in a 100 meter timed swim (I hate them).  Of course, the only leg workouts they get are using a kick board in the pool so they’re naturally total wimps compared to us. Seriously, I train with roadies….on my ROAD bike.  Taking your tri-sprint bike out on a group ride with a bunch of roadies is just a bad idea all around.  They’ll all conspire against you….egging you on to push out on a breakaway to show them how fast your speedy 650c, steep-sloped, aero’d out tri bike really is.  Then they’ll proceed to mow you down and leave you in the dust on their showy Colnagos and Pinarellos with the cool Campy groupos (bastards).  Every sport has it’s rules of engagement….most important one to follow when dealing with roadies is…ride a decent road bike when you go out with them and try not to mention your training for something so obviously insane as an Ironman event….usually they’ll be nice to you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the deal with Roadies & Triathletes?  When Roadies find out your a Triathlete, they act like you have no business on a bike and also act like a tri-bike is some bastard child of engineering.  I respect both sports (I tend to gravitate toward the tri because that is what I do) but I also see fellow triathletes saying things like "drop him in the water and he will sink like a rock" about Roadies.  Why the big beef? (have fun Brian W)

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Question:

I am very interested in getting into triathalons.  Generally in good shape, run usually three times a week.  I saw an add for a local duathalon, it’s not a tri but I figure it would e a good start.  It is a 3 mile run-12 mile bike-3 mile run and it goes on 30 Sept 00.  Is this too soon to give it a shot and would anyone have any good ideas to get ready for it.  Thanks.

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Go ahead and do it.  Sometimes the hardest step is the first one. Just go out with the goal of completing the event and having fun at the same time. Go at your own pace and don’t worry about anyone else. Good luck.    -eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am very interested in getting into triathalons.  Generally in good shape, run usually three times a week.  I saw an add for a local duathalon, it’s not a tri but I figure it would e a good start.  It is a 3 mile run-12 mile bike-3 mile run and it goes on 30 Sept 00.  Is this too soon to give it a shot and would anyone have any good ideas to get ready for it.  Thanks.

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I am very interested in getting into triathalons.  Generally in good shape, run usually three times a week.  I saw an add for a local duathalon, it’s not a tri but I figure it would e a good start.  It is a 3 mile run- 12 mile bike-3 mile run and it goes on 30 Sept 00.  Is this too soon to give it a shot and would anyone have any good ideas to get ready for it.

Thanks. Definitely not too soon if you’re already running 3x/wk (of course, if you’re only running 100M at a time, that’s a different story You should be fine – just do a couple of ‘brick’ workouts (a ride followed immediately by a run) to accustom your legs to running off the bike. Since it’s a du, you might even want to do a Rubric(tm) – run- bike-run. Before you buy.

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Hello, Racing a Duathlon is not a preparation or a good start to race Triathlons. That is what people think but it is not true at all. The Duathlon effort is very specific with very specific heart rates trends. The 2nd run has no comparison with the run of a triathlon. The only way to get into triathlons is by racing a triathlon. Anyway, a Duathlon can be great fun and helps you entering the atmosphere of multisport. Olivier I am very interested in getting into triathalons.  Generally in good shape, run usually three times a week.  I saw an add for a local duathalon, it’s not a tri but I figure it would e a good start.  It is a 3 mile run- 12 mile bike-3 mile run and it goes on 30 Sept 00.  Is this too soon to give it a shot and would anyone have any good ideas to get ready for it. Thanks.

Before you buy.

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Question:

John Howard of adventure race fame is from New Zealand near Christchurch. He is no slouch for speed either in the past having won overall several shorter than adventure race length races, such as a couple hour race.

Response:

Actually, there are three. 1. John Howard, Pan Am gold medal winning and Olympic cyclist, 1981 Ironman Hawaii winner, teacher extraordinaire, writer. 2. New Zealand’s John Howard, the best adventure racer of all time. 3. The dippy current Prime Minister of  Australia, a conervative, anti-Aboriginal dumpy witless fool Timothy Carlson .

Response:

John Howard of adventure race fame is from New Zealand near Christchurch. He is no slouch for speed either in the past having won overall several shorter than adventure race length races, such as a couple hour race.

The Ironman Champion one also went 152 MPH on a bicycle and covered 539 miles in one day. His bio didn’t mention if he washes windows. I doubt if he does windows.

Response:

Sorry folks, my error. What about Ron Howard? AKA Op – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John Howard of adventure race fame is from New Zealand near Christchurch. He is no slouch for speed either in the past having won overall several shorter than adventure race length races, such as a couple hour race. The Ironman Champion one also went 152 MPH on a bicycle and covered 539 miles in one day. His bio didn’t mention if he washes windows. I doubt if he does windows.

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    They are 2 different people-  I believe the adventure racing John Howard is from the Southern Hemisphere-  perhaps New Zealand??  I seem to remember seeing something on him that said he is either a) a a sheepherder when not racing or b) a window washer.  I also seem to remember seeing that he lived in either a small trailer or an old school bus which was packed full of various outdoor paraphenelia (bikes, tents, camping equip, etc).  I believe the biking John Howard lives in Ca.  From what I remember reading he is active in various cycling/triathlon camps (multisport out of the SD area??). I seem to remember reading in Velo News that he perenially wins his class in the NORBA nationals XC.  I also remember seeing him at the Helen Ga Norba race a few years back and noting that I had never seen any athlete (including elite marathoners) with smaller calves. Ben Reuter

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: Are you sure? I saw the Eco Challenge also and really think they are the same : guy. The Eco Challenge JH appeared to be in his early 50’s which would make : it work out mathematically. I thought there was even a blurb on the Discovery : channel broadcast about him being a former IM winner.??? They are two totally different guys.   John Howard the Olympic cyclist and onetime triathlete is from the US and lives in San Diego, running cycling and triathlon camps, writing articles, selling vitamins and water bicycles, and generally kicking ass on the bicycle whenever the mood strikes him.   http://www.multisports.com/johnh.html John Howard the adventure racer is from Christchurch, New Zealand and is around 45 years old.  He was part of the adventure racing team Eco-Internet, which has probably split into several other teams since – can’t find an up to date web page for him but here’s his race resume as of 1996:      Two time winner, Raid Gauloises (and 2nd once)      NZ mountain bike champion      Seven time winner, Alpine Ironman        [probably not a triathlon]      Two time winner, Coast to Coast      1st Eco-Challenge, 1996      1st X Games, 1996      3rd Extreme Games, 1995      1st (unranked) Eco-Challenge, 1995      25 years mountaineering experience      Experienced kayaker, skier and horseman      Window Cleaner

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I always figured that John Howard of Eco Internet / Team Greenpeace / Adventure Sport fame was the *same* John Howard who won IMH in ‘81 (I believe) and who was also a top Olympic cyclist. But recently, I caught a small pic of the latter and he didn’t look anything like the Eco John Howard. The picture was small, though, and could possibly have been inserted incorrectly. My question, then: are there two John Howard’s? And if so, what did the Eco guy do prior to the Raids and the Eco Challenge? — Shea Bennett Before you buy.

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yep, two different guys.  I was confused as well until I saw the pic. — Andre Charlebois BPE in exercise science, MCSE, MCP + I, CNA, A+ webmaster for Triathlon New Brunswick http://members.tripod.com/~TriNB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always figured that John Howard of Eco Internet / Team Greenpeace / Adventure Sport fame was the *same* John Howard who won IMH in ‘81 (I believe) and who was also a top Olympic cyclist. But recently, I caught a small pic of the latter and he didn’t look anything like the Eco John Howard. The picture was small, though, and could possibly have been inserted incorrectly. My question, then: are there two John Howard’s? And if so, what did the Eco guy do prior to the Raids and the Eco Challenge? — Shea Bennett Before you buy.

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Are you sure? I saw the Eco Challenge also and really think they are the same guy. The Eco Challenge JH appeared to be in his early 50’s which would make it work out mathematically. I thought there was even a blurb on the Discovery channel broadcast about him being a former IM winner.??? Maybe Tracy K. or Slowtwitch could give us the real scoop. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yep, two different guys.  I was confused as well until I saw the pic. — Andre Charlebois BPE in exercise science, MCSE, MCP + I, CNA, A+ webmaster for Triathlon New Brunswick http://members.tripod.com/~TriNB I always figured that John Howard of Eco Internet / Team Greenpeace / Adventure Sport fame was the *same* John Howard who won IMH in ‘81 (I believe) and who was also a top Olympic cyclist. But recently, I caught a small pic of the latter and he didn’t look anything like the Eco John Howard. The picture was small, though, and could possibly have been inserted incorrectly. My question, then: are there two John Howard’s? And if so, what did the Eco guy do prior to the Raids and the Eco Challenge? — Shea Bennett Before you buy.

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Question:

Jeff, your IMC ‘97 race report was just great!! Just what the doctor ordered for a training pick me up. Good advice also on Sleamaker’s book (I use it too). Thanks, Laura (IMC ‘97, IMC ‘98) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone give me a realistic idea how much training time I would need to get into good enough shape to finish an Ironman distance event, given that I have between 12 and 15 hours a week to train? Three months? Six months? A year? Maybe Jason wants this one ; ) Kidding aside, given that you have 12-15 hrs per week, I’m sure you’d be in ship shape in 6 mos. if finishing was your only goal. Just as a point of reference, my average last year for IMC was 10.1 hours. I trained 11 months off a moderate fitness base. Certainly not a marathon base. I firmly believe that just about anyone with a decent fitness base, who is not prone to injury, and is healthy can *finish* the distance. What is required is focus, a plan, and patience. Lots of patience. 17 hours is a long time to be out there. Racing the distance is a different story. Also, can anyone recommend any good books or websites on the subject of Ironman training? I found "Serious Training for Endurance Athletes" by Rob Sleamaker and Ray Browning invaluable in my program last year. Take a look at my plan if you like. It is at http://www.ns.net/~jtp/IMC_training.htm. I have some other links on the site, but is is pretty rough yet. I just put it up. I am by no means an expert. However the ideas here did work for me. BTW, the best spot on the web is right here. RST. Jeff.

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I’m a 29-year-old male, a 3:20 marathoner, and I ride about 50 miles a week. I’ve been training 5 to 6 days a week for two years.  But I only swim occassionally (and I am not what I would consider a strong swimmer at that.) Can someone give me a realistic idea how much training time I would need to get into good enough shape to finish an Ironman distance event, given that I have between 12 and 15 hours a week to train? Three months? Six months? A year? Also, can anyone recommend any good books or websites on the subject of Ironman training? Thanks, Eric

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Can someone give me a realistic idea how much training time I would need to get into good enough shape to finish an Ironman distance event, given that I have between 12 and 15 hours a week to train? Three months? Six months? A year?

Maybe Jason wants this one ; ) Kidding aside, given that you have 12-15 hrs per week, I’m sure you’d be in ship shape in 6 mos. if finishing was your only goal. Just as a point of reference, my average last year for IMC was 10.1 hours. I trained 11 months off a moderate fitness base. Certainly not a marathon base. I firmly believe that just about anyone with a decent fitness base, who is not prone to injury, and is healthy can *finish* the distance. What is required is focus, a plan, and patience. Lots of patience. 17 hours is a long time to be out there. Racing the distance is a different story. Also, can anyone recommend any good books or websites on the subject of Ironman training?

I found "Serious Training for Endurance Athletes" by Rob Sleamaker and Ray Browning invaluable in my program last year. Take a look at my plan if you like. It is at http://www.ns.net/~jtp/IMC_training.htm. I have some other links on the site, but is is pretty rough yet. I just put it up. I am by no means an expert. However the ideas here did work for me. BTW, the best spot on the web is right here. RST. Jeff.

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Eric, I’m "racing" in Roth this July off a base of one season in triathlon. I’m no superman just a M/BOP 36 year old, My PB for the Olympic distance is 2:19:58. I’m using a plan written by Rod Cedaro, an Australian. He’s taken me gradually through the last 7 months to a point where I’m hoping to finish in around 10:45. His site is here:  http://www.tri-training.com.au/ I’m not sponsored, in fact I pay but I can really recommend this service. I’m doing around 13-15 hours a week. Phil Squire Going for it in Roth 98 Snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, can anyone recommend any good books or websites on the subject of Ironman training? Thanks, Eric

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Question:

Can anyone send me the date and adress of the Embrun triathlon in august ? Jos

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Can anyone send me the date and adress of the Embrun triathlon in august ? Jos

Check out http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~desprez/FILES/TRIATH/Calend97.html It contains a complete race calender of France. Ton

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Question:

While many of you superb athletes are at Wildflower, I will be doing the Tom Landry Triathalon (short course) in Dallas.  Since I have a shoulder problem making swimming difficult, and an Achilles tendon problem making running difficult this ought to be some kind of fun…. I’m doing this because I posted a message of complaint a week ago (titled Woe is me) and I got an answer back from someone who said they would sooner be last than watch.  So, I may be doing the breast stroke, and limp when I run, but I WILL finish. (and damn it I won’t be last, either!) Good luck to all whatever your course may be. John

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I’ll be behind you, assumming I make it over there in time to register. I’m in town for 22 hours–ought to be enough to fit in a sprint tri! Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While many of you superb athletes are at Wildflower, I will be doing the Tom Landry Triathalon (short course) in Dallas.  Since I have a shoulder problem making swimming difficult, and an Achilles tendon problem making running difficult this ought to be some kind of fun…. I’m doing this because I posted a message of complaint a week ago (titled Woe is me) and I got an answer back from someone who said they would sooner be last than watch.  So, I may be doing the breast stroke, and limp when I run, but I WILL finish. (and damn it I won’t be last, either!) Good luck to all whatever your course may be. John

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Question:

Any advice, ideas on shaving/maintaining my legs without looking like I’ve got bipedal measles?  The rash is more than I can take.

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Any advice, ideas on shaving/maintaining my legs without looking like I’ve got bipedal measles?  The rash is more than I can take.

I thought this was going to be a thread about shaving heads!  It seems to me that the same aero benefits that you can get from shaving your legs on the bike can be achieved for the run by shaving your head.  I certainly think that there is at least a staying cooler type of benefit.  Besides — look at what Mike Pigg has done since he went all the way on shaving. Jeff Mazer (not with a shaved head but close, and probably slower because of what’ left)

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Besides — look at what Mike Pigg has done since he went all the way on shaving.

At the recent (a month?) Surfers Paradise International Triathlon (formerly World Cup Tri. – thanks ITU) they had a special wave for the ‘Be like Mike’   category. Five guys fronted up the day before to get the ‘clean’ head look to compete in the catergory – all 5 did PBs!! Latest issue of Australian Triathlete has a great photo of Mike with the five. Cheers, Tom.

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Wash legs before shaving, don’t let hair get to long before shaving, don’t use disposable razors…they trash my legs.  I haven’t seen a difference between soap and shaving cream but whatever you use make sure its lathered up and wet.

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: Any advice, ideas on shaving/maintaining my legs without looking like I’ve : got bipedal measles?  The rash is more than I can take. Yeah, I know those measles.  However, my girlfriend (most likely sick of that rash) gave me what seems to be the answer.  She told me to try using Pears soap (it is a kind of clear orangy colour). It does not seem to lather very well in our water but it seems to have done the job well.  The other thing is to use a moisturizer on a regular basis.  Three weeks and no rash yet!!                   __o       o                 _ <_      <       swim  +   bike  +   run  =   a good nights sleep

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Question:

I competed in a triathlon race last week which was on the poorest designed course I have ever seen.  I bagged those responsible for the course in a weekly column I write for the local newspaper and in turn, have copped an earful from them. I will list the points which led to my criticism below, but my main question is this:  Is there available information on triathlon course design; perhaps something from Tri Fed, or just a useful article in a magazine or book?  Also, was I out of line in publicly pointing out the problems? In my opinion, anyone with triathlon experience and a little common sense can design a safe, enjoyable course. Thanks. 1. the swim course consisted of two "sausage" laps; i.e., back-and-forth laps (rather than a triangle or rectangle), thereby allowing swimmers in one direction to swim through those going in the other direction; a dangerous practice, confusing, and giving the opportunity for a swimmer to cut the swim short. 2. Between the swim and transition area, athletes had to run over a footpath which was under a tree frequented by flocks of birds; the bird-poo was thick, 3. Still on the poo-theme, the transition area was on grass where in non-triathlon times, people let their dogs relieve themselves; not very nice for barefooters, 4. The 40k ride was on a main road, curvy and traffic-layden, 5. In a commendable attempt to bring triathlon to the people, the 10k run was 5 laps of a 2k run in a residential area.  There were no less than 14 hazzards per lap (kerbs, speed humps, etc.); it included an out-and-back section on a very narrow footpath which was very congested.  As I said in the article, what was intended to be spectator-friend turned out to be competitor-unfriendly. — School of Applied Computing             Voice:  (003)  243 476 University of Tasmania at Launceston    Intnl:  +61 03 243 476 AUSTRALIA   7250                        fax:           243 368

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 Also, was I out of line in publicly pointing out the problems? In my opinion, anyone with triathlon experience and a little common sense can design a safe, enjoyable course.

Just say it like it is and get used to copping an earful. The only respect you need is from the readers. Only travel writers and ad copy writers write that everything is peachy, and they get paid a heck of  a lot more for that than we do. jeffrey justice

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