Question:

test

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In case you missed this in today’s papers: July 26, 2001: Public Meeting for an Indoor Track McNabb Community Center 180 Percy Street – Preschool Room 7 PM Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com

Response:

Thanks! Daniel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In case you missed this in today’s papers: July 26, 2001: Public Meeting for an Indoor Track McNabb Community Center 180 Percy Street – Preschool Room 7 PM Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com

– Daniel Pierre-Antoine Dept. of Political Science Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, ON  K1L 5B6

Response:

In case you missed this in today’s papers: July 26, 2001: Public Meeting for an Indoor Track McNabb Community Center 180 Percy Street – Preschool Room 7 PM Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com

Response:

Ridiculous. The article states that there are so many arenas because hockey and figure skating are so popular in Ottawa. Yeah, in the winter months (ok, a little longer than that). But I’d like to tell these people to go walk or drive *anywhere* along the Rideau Canal between downtown and Mooney’s Bay, and they are guaranteed to see runners everywhere. Almost every season. Certainly spring through fall, and maybe even some in winter (I don’t run that area in winter). Ah well, we’re just too strange for our own good. Cam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Runner’s Web Newsgroups: rec.running Apparently the Ottawa Citizen thinks more hockey rinks are a good idea but an indoor track is not required. Ottawa Citizen Editorial: One more costly sports idea Read the editorial from Today’s Online Citizen at: http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/editorials/story.asp?id={C2A3A63E-6 82D-4113-820E-FB4C21DB0096} [Rebuild LONG URL] or link to from the Runner’s Web FrontPage. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com A running and Triathlon Resource Portal

Response:

Apparently the Ottawa Citizen thinks more hockey rinks are a good idea but an indoor track is not required. Ottawa Citizen Editorial: One more costly sports idea Read the editorial from Today’s Online Citizen at: http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/editorials/story.asp?id={C2A3A63E-682D-4113-820E-FB4C21DB0096} [Rebuild LONG URL] or link to from the Runner’s Web FrontPage. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com A running and Triathlon Resource Portal

Response:

Question:

Hi, Emilio De Soto here.  There will be one up for auction on tribuy.com by yours truly beginning next week. Emilio De Soto II www.desotosport.com       "The triathlon clothing company" www.tribuy.com               "buy and sell your own triathlon gear " www.t1wetsuits.com       "The new triathlon wetsuit coming in 2001" Email me for a De Soto Sport free catalog

Response:

Anyone have one of these laying around?  I want it! Pete

Response:

      I’ve got an old one somewhere.  It was the greatest product ever!!  But, not many of us thought so or they’d still be used.   I’m sure mine is well used, but usable.  Mine is the origional 4 stop model, not the light weight or 2 stop model.   Probably would look funny on my P3!      I also designed a "hair trigger" for super fast operation.  At one time I even rode a bike w/ a modified top tube that had internal seat shifter cable routing.  Anyone else ever do that!?      I am probably really dating myself!!  This was back in the days when you leaned your bike against the tree in the transition area, and completely changed clothes…I mean naked!  Oh for the good ole days.      Anyway, let me know if I can tell you more about the seat shifter (I always said I’d put it back on again someday!!). david Never give up, Be satisfied w/ your best, Do unto others…..

Response:

David I tried to email you unsuccessfully.  If it’s in good working order, and you can part with it let me know! Pete

Response:

David I tried to email you unsuccessfully.  If it’s in good working order, and you can part with it let me know! Pete

     Pete, Just take the "nojunk" out of my e-mail address.  I’ll be happy to discuss w/ you. david Never give up, Be satisfied w/ your best, Do unto others…..

Response:

Question:

What an expirience.. I’m doing an easy run and everything seems calm and nice but suddenly it starts to rain REALLY heavily. Instead of seeking shelter I decide to turn back knowing that it takes about 15 mins to get back to home. I decide to speed up because the thunder shows up, my shirt gets really wet and I have to take it off. I’m running fast and without a shirt in order to avoid feeling too cold. Those few people who are on the streets are staring at me like I was crazy. Is that what it feels to be a professional runner? *laugh* —

Response:

What an expirience.. I’m doing an easy run and everything seems calm and nice but suddenly it starts to rain REALLY heavily. Instead of seeking shelter I decide to turn back knowing that it takes about 15 mins to get back to home. I decide to speed up because the thunder shows up, my shirt gets really wet and I have to take it off. I’m running fast and without a shirt in order to avoid feeling too cold. Those few people who are on the streets are staring at me like I was crazy. Is that what it feels to be a professional runner? *laugh*

When I was on my high school cross-country team, one of the most memorable workouts we had was in the pouring rain.  The coach had told us to run a specific 13-mile loop (along paved roads), but we had decided to do a shorter, slower, off-road version instead. We had a great time, and returned to school completely muddy and soaked.  I think the coach was impressed that we ran the whole loop in a decent time and were still in good spirits. Little did he know… -Robb — Delete "spamfilter." to reply.

Response:

When I was on my high school cross-country team, one of the most memorable workouts we had was in the pouring rain.  The coach had told us to run a specific 13-mile loop (along paved roads), but we had decided to do a shorter, slower, off-road version instead. We had a great time, and returned to school completely muddy and soaked.

     That reminds me of a triathlon that I did in the rain.  The swim part was no problem, but the 10K run was mostly on dirt roads that were no longer dirt. I remember that my shoes got heavier and heavier, and I actually found myself trying to avoid some of the larger puddles, which I eventually realized was ridiculous.  There were actually some volunteers on the course passing out water, if one so desired.  It was an experience, and, yes, it was fun too.                                     Jean S.

Response:

I’ve run in rain, snow, heat, cold, wind — everything except ice — ice will cause you to slip. — Regards, Joe Schlatter http://www.schlatter.org/ http://www.miafacts.org/ Amateur Radio Extra Class call sign W4HH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What an expirience.. I’m doing an easy run and everything seems calm and nice but suddenly it starts to rain REALLY heavily. Instead of seeking shelter I decide to turn back knowing that it takes about 15 mins to get back to home. I decide to speed up because the thunder shows up, my shirt gets really wet and I have to take it off. I’m running fast and without a shirt in order to avoid feeling too cold. Those few people who are on the streets are staring at me like I was crazy. Is that what it feels to be a professional runner? *laugh* —

Response:

:What an expirience.. I’m doing an easy run and everything seems calm and :nice but suddenly it starts to rain REALLY heavily. Instead of seeking :shelter I decide to turn back knowing that it takes about 15 mins to get :back to home. I decide to speed up because the thunder shows up, my shirt :gets really wet and I have to take it off. I’m running fast and without a :shirt in order to avoid feeling too cold. Those few people who are on the :streets are staring at me like I was crazy. Is that what it feels to be a :professional runner? *laugh* : When I was on my high school cross-country team, one of the most memorable : workouts we had was in the pouring rain.  The coach had told us to run a : specific 13-mile loop (along paved roads), but we had decided to do a : shorter, slower, off-road version instead. We had a great time, and returned : to school completely muddy and soaked.  I think the coach was impressed that : we ran the whole loop in a decent time and were still in good spirits. : Little did he know…         Likewise, during one of our high school CC offseasons, me and three buddies decided to do a section (rural Minnesota, a section is 4 miles) in the teeth of a growing blizzard.  The first mile into the wind blew chunks, but once we turned the first corner it was pretty cool.  I wouldn’t do it again, but it was sure entertaining.                                                 -jeremy

Response:

I run in the rain quite a bit.  I find it makes for a nice run.  A little water has never hurt me, so as long as I don’t get struck by lightning I guess I wont worry about it.  Lately it has been stormy every evening and there are two things I hate worse than getting soaked…. not running and getting up early in  the morning to run.  So, I am left with no choice.  I guess shirtless running in the rain would add even another level of entertainment. Ryan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What an expirience.. I’m doing an easy run and everything seems calm and nice but suddenly it starts to rain REALLY heavily. Instead of seeking shelter I decide to turn back knowing that it takes about 15 mins to get back to home. I decide to speed up because the thunder shows up, my shirt gets really wet and I have to take it off. I’m running fast and without a shirt in order to avoid feeling too cold. Those few people who are on the streets are staring at me like I was crazy. Is that what it feels to be a professional runner? *laugh* —

Response:

I love when it rains on my way back- it’s so refreshing! Geneva – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What an expirience.. I’m doing an easy run and everything seems calm and nice but suddenly it starts to rain REALLY heavily. Instead of seeking shelter I decide to turn back knowing that it takes about 15 mins to get back to home. I decide to speed up because the thunder shows up, my shirt gets really wet and I have to take it off. I’m running fast and without a shirt in order to avoid feeling too cold. Those few people who are on the streets are staring at me like I was crazy. Is that what it feels to be a professional runner? *laugh* —

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Thought it was to be on Thursday, Dec 30. not today. diane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once again, triathlon gets the shaft!  Having waited for three months to see The Ironkids Bread Triathlon National Championships, my wife and I took the afternoon off from work and drove to west georgia, where we had planned to watch the event with family.  So the new tape was in the VCR, and at 2:30PM EST, what comes on?  "The NFL’s Greatest Moments".  I know that football doesn’t get enough air-time, but triathlon gets even less! For me, there are two great shows on TV each year – Ironman and Ironkids.  Somehow, re-runs of football players talking about their past was not a reasonable substitute.  I am quite literally sick at my stomach! Was this a national screw-up, or did anyone else actually get to see IronKids? Charlie "really ticked" Crawford

Response:

I’d had my VCR set for today too. The print out I have from a web based tv schedule search done on 4 December had it today at 1:30 CST.   — Chuck    Department of Biology,  University of Alabama at Birmingham             http://www.uab.edu/uabbio/amsler.htm

Response:

Thought it was to be on Thursday, Dec 30. not today. diane

My TV Guide says Thursday, 2:30pm EST also. Put the gun down Charlie……s l o w l y…. )))) Before you buy.

Response:

Thought it was to be on Thursday, Dec 30. not today. diane

Know what?  I think (hope) you’re right.  I’ll try again, tomorrow.

Response:

What channel is it on? I’d had my VCR set for today too. The print out I have from a web based tv schedule search done on 4 December had it today at 1:30 CST.   — Chuck    Department of Biology,  University of Alabama at Birmingham             http://www.uab.edu/uabbio/amsler.htm

Before you buy.

Response:

ESPN: 2:30pm EST, Thursday, December 30, 1999 (note this is a change from the original ESPN scheduled date of Dec. 29)

Response:

Once again, triathlon gets the shaft!  Having waited for three months to see The Ironkids Bread Triathlon National Championships, my wife and I took the afternoon off from work and drove to west georgia, where we had planned to watch the event with family.  So the new tape was in the VCR, and at 2:30PM EST, what comes on?  "The NFL’s Greatest Moments".  I know that football doesn’t get enough air-time, but triathlon gets even less! For me, there are two great shows on TV each year – Ironman and Ironkids.  Somehow, re-runs of football players talking about their past was not a reasonable substitute.  I am quite literally sick at my stomach! Was this a national screw-up, or did anyone else actually get to see IronKids? Charlie "really ticked" Crawford

Response:

Question:

: Pacific Shoreline Marathon : Huntington Beach, California : 7:00 AM, January 31, 1999

Question:

Pete, Excellent time for "not much training"! Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a way to start beefing up the mileage for IMNZ then to do a lovely little marathon in the middle of Philadelphia! Not much training went to this race, and I was going to play this very conservative, using the heart rate monitor to keep me in the comfortable aerobic zone for most of the marathon. This way I can get through it, and recover fast for the rest of the training. I had friends from all walks of life. There was a couple of friends from my club who were ready to partake in the marathon. Then there were the RST’ers Bob Mina and Bill Hauser along with cheerleaders Mike Parente and Eric Weiss (you look good in a dress Eric  ). Then there were 5 people from my job that came down to run as well. I toed the line holding 4 GU’s in my hands. I’m used to holding keys and such when I run, so it really didn’t bother me. The gun went off, and in the first few miles I was itching to go faster, but I held back and stood in the heart rate zone. Felt good through downtown Philly, and cruised through into Fairmount Park where I started popping the GU’s. I got through the park in what seemed an effortless pace and got back to the the finish-line area at mile 14 to start the 12 mile out and back loop to Manayunk, a small suburb of Philly.Concentration is the key here, because there are so few spectators between Philly and Manayunk, and you have to keep yourself mentally settled to tackle the last few miles of the course. I bottomed out here at the 18 mile point last year, but this year I had a lot of energy left at that point. I got to the turnaround and saw Bob Mina at I think 23 miles. He looked good and cheerful when I passed him. At mile 24 my energy started to drop a bit, and I had to concentrate to keep pushing past what seem to be The Wall. After a bit of a struggle I finally got through to the finish line where I posted a 3:17:04. A fair time, but decent anyway. At least I can recover easily within the week and can eat to my heart’s content on Thanksgiving.  That is a story that might be worth posting later. I think I saw Bob Mina’s time of 3:56 somewhere (correct me if I’m wrong), and I forgot what Bill did. Sorry Bill. Time to seriously build for IMNZ now. This race got me prepared for it now. One other detail. Jan Wanklyn was the women’s winner on the Philly course this year with an impressive 2:44:59! Kudos to her and her great effort!                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

        Excellent race Pete, especially for the off-season! Yours David Barclay Ironman Lanzarote 1999 Triathlon: "Swim, Bike, Crawl"

Response:

What a way to start beefing up the mileage for IMNZ then to do a lovely little marathon in the middle of Philadelphia! Not much training went to this race, and I was going to play this very conservative, using the heart rate monitor to keep me in the comfortable aerobic zone for most of the marathon. This way I can get through it, and recover fast for the rest of the training. I had friends from all walks of life. There was a couple of friends from my club who were ready to partake in the marathon. Then there were the RST’ers Bob Mina and Bill Hauser along with cheerleaders Mike Parente and Eric Weiss (you look good in a dress Eric  ). Then there were 5 people from my job that came down to run as well. I toed the line holding 4 GU’s in my hands. I’m used to holding keys and such when I run, so it really didn’t bother me. The gun went off, and in the first few miles I was itching to go faster, but I held back and stood in the heart rate zone. Felt good through downtown Philly, and cruised through into Fairmount Park where I started popping the GU’s. I got through the park in what seemed an effortless pace and got back to the the finish-line area at mile 14 to start the 12 mile out and back loop to Manayunk, a small suburb of Philly.Concentration is the key here, because there are so few spectators between Philly and Manayunk, and you have to keep yourself mentally settled to tackle the last few miles of the course. I bottomed out here at the 18 mile point last year, but this year I had a lot of energy left at that point. I got to the turnaround and saw Bob Mina at I think 23 miles. He looked good and cheerful when I passed him. At mile 24 my energy started to drop a bit, and I had to concentrate to keep pushing past what seem to be The Wall. After a bit of a struggle I finally got through to the finish line where I posted a 3:17:04. A fair time, but decent anyway. At least I can recover easily within the week and can eat to my heart’s content on Thanksgiving.  That is a story that might be worth posting later. I think I saw Bob Mina’s time of 3:56 somewhere (correct me if I’m wrong), and I forgot what Bill did. Sorry Bill. Time to seriously build for IMNZ now. This race got me prepared for it now. One other detail. Jan Wanklyn was the women’s winner on the Philly course this year with an impressive 2:44:59! Kudos to her and her great effort!                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

Question:

Hi! I’m 29 years old ex water polo player and interested about triathlon. So, how to start? (books, heart rate monitors, programs, etc…) I have 9 months to prepare. Appreciating your help, Ed

Response:

Hi! I’m 29 years old ex water polo player and interested about triathlon. So, how to start? (books, heart rate monitors, programs, etc…)

Ed, I’d check out the local library and used book store for triathlon books to read while you’re not in front of the computer. When you are in front of the computer check out: http://www.hulaman.com/tritips.html And keep reading rst — Chris Davis "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one’s courage." Anais Nin http://www.hulaman.com/

Response:

Question:

Inside Triathlon finally came and for the most part had great coverage of the Hawaii Ironman.

I got both Inside Tri and Triathlete mags, the Triathlete one just came today.  How come Inside Tri has coverage of the Ironman immediately and Triathlete has  it in next month’s magazine? I know this is the normal occurance, but I feel  the Ironman hype has already cooled off when Triathlete comes with its  coverage. Last year, I got Triathlete mag the week after IMH was shown on NBC  (toward the end of Dec.). I feel that Inside Tri coverage was great timing;  people are still talking about what happened at IMH and POOF, there it is in  my mailbox. I still like Triathlete Mag, despite some of its shortcomings.  They still have some interesting articles in their issues, but would be a lot  better if they can get the IMH in a month sooner. Just my 2 pennies… "Iron Pete" Priolo IMC’96 – 10:36:37    IMC’97 – 10:42:53 ‘98 Gulf Coast Tri, IMC’98

Response:

You are correct. The times were slow because of the conditions. Allen, Scott,  or Luc would have been slow also. Hellreigel and Zack ran a great race under  the conditions. Chris Legh deserves every amount of praise we can give him. I  watched him training while in Hawaii and talked to him. A great guy who just  gave all he had to give. I applaud his commitment, drive, and passion to win  along with Zacks, Hellreigel’s, and every age grouper that finished the 1997  Ironman race. This years IM was brutal and only those out on the lava fields  in the heat of competition know how difficult it was. Alan

Response:

Inside Triathlon finally came and for the most part had great coverage of the Hawaii Ironman. I was really pleased to see the terrific article and photo coverage of the women. In the past, Inside Tri has not had the same quality coverage of the women that they had of the men. This year, the coverage of the women was great. There full big color photos of both the men’s and women’s winners, and some good action shots of both men and women out on the course. My only complaint is that Chris Newbound implies, in his article on the pro men, that they were loafing around and taking their time because Luc Van Leider and Mark Allen were not there. Newbound insinuates that the Germans would not have swept or even won if Luc Van Leider or Mark Allen had been there. However, I think that even if Mark Allen or Luc Van Leider had been there, they would also have had finishing times that were 30 minutes slower than usual, just like the other pros, simply because conditions were too tough. My opinion, of course. Cathy Corning

Response:

Question:

If your seatpost even flexes at all, it won’t do much for ride comfort. Is this statement based on demostrable fact or merely opinion?

If you feel the need to demonstrate the obvious, go ahead.  Seatposts don’t flex vertically.  Even an angled one with a lot of fore-and-aft movement isn’t moving up and down much.  Your seat itself, your tires, and even your flesh are absorbing a lot more force than your seatpost. How can getting "behind the pedals" help the legs absorb shock?  With this logic a recumbent rider can absorb a *lot* of road shock with their legs, something that is clearly not the case.

That’s a ridiculous analogy. The biomechanics of this are too complicated to explain here and now.  Maybe some other time. Opinons about bike fit are like ears: everyone’s got a couple.

The mechanics of bike fit are well understood, and the knowledge is successfully used by good bike designers. Matt O.

Response:

If you feel the need to demonstrate the obvious, go ahead.  Seatposts don’t flex vertically.  Even an angled one with a lot of fore-and-aft movement isn’t moving up and down much.  Your seat itself, your tires, and even your flesh are absorbing a lot more force than your seatpost.

Point conceded. How can getting "behind the pedals" help the legs absorb shock?  With this logic a recumbent rider can absorb a *lot* of road shock with their legs, something that is clearly not the case. That’s a ridiculous analogy.

Why?  I’m simply taking your argument to the extreme. The biomechanics of this are too complicated to explain here and now.  Maybe some other time.

Sound like a cop out, Matt.  Could you at least provide some references?   Opinons about bike fit are like ears: everyone’s got a couple. The mechanics of bike fit are well understood, and the knowledge is successfully used by good bike designers.

GMAB.  Perhaps you can tell me what biomechanical work went into KOPS recommendation or why there is such a thing as "revisionist frame sizing" or why Gary Klein has his own unique sizing recommendation. What is universally agreed upon is there is nothing universally agreed upon.   Matt O.

Mark

Response:

Seat tube angle is usually 73 degrees or less for people riding around others. Steeper angles than that begin to compromise your agility on the bike, because your arms have to bear too much weight when you stand.

Huh?  When you stand? Triathlon bikes are generally steeper, some up to 78 degrees, and track bikes are often 75 degrees.

This is to get god aero positoning on a tri bike, and good aero and spinning position on a track bike. But unless you are specialized as such, you will be within about 1 degree of 73 degrees.

Yes.  It should also be pointed out that the range of adjustment of most seatposts will make as big a difference in rider position as the seat tube angle.  If you factor in that seatposts are available with different amounts of setback, you’ll see that seapost angle makes even less difference.  However, it may need to be taken into account with other measurements, like top tube length, for a perfect fit. The head tube angle largely determines the front wheel trail,or caster. Most forks only come with one fork offset (45 mm for off-road), thus the only variable for adjusting trail is head angle, or getting a custom fork. There is a fairly significant difference between an MTB fork with 45 mm offset on a 73.5 degree head angle bike and a 71 degree head angle bike. I just made this change, and 71 degrees is a lot more stable and less twitchy. But as far as I figure, head angle is only important in how it interacts with fork offset to produce trail.

This is true.  Head angle itself does matter, but much less than its effect on trail.   I had an old rigid mountain bike with a 69 or 70 deg head angle.  It was still a twitchy bike because it had a really big fork offset, over 2".  When people jack their front ends up with tall suspension forks, the resulting slow steering comes from too much trail, not the slack head angle.  This is one reason AMP made their forks with more offset than RS or Manitou.  AMP forks were taller, and that had to be compensated for, unless the frame was designed for them to begin with. Well, the further the front wheel contact patch falls behindthe axis of the head tube, the more stable the front end becomes, and the slower the bike will turn. 73-74 degrees is a fast turning twitchy bike, while 69 degrees is a veritable slug around turns, but very stable.

Not necessarily.  I’ve ridden a couple of sweet handling bikes with less than 70 deg head angles.  No single measurement can be taken out of context.  It’s the combination that counts.  A slack angled bike with a short front center, and healthy fork offset, will still handle quickly. Most people only consider this relevant for fitting your torso, butothers figure differently. Among others, Eddie Merckx used to suggest a longer top tube and a shorter stem as a way to a nicer ride. The wheelbase is longer, but the front end steering is the same. Most riders find it more comfortable without much if any noticeable decrease in handling. Gary Fisher began to use the same concept this year and called it ‘Genesis’ geometry like he invented it. I had already spec’d a bike with the same geometry for the same reason – it is a more comfortable ride. The longer wheel base offers more filtering of the road underneath the bike.

A longer wheelbase is more comfortable, but more weight on the saddle and the rear wheel can make for a harsher ride.  Less weight on the front wheel of a mountain bike means washouts in tight singletrack. Matt O.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     head tube angle The head tube angle largely determines the front wheel trail,or caster. Most forks only come with one fork offset (45 mm for off-road), thus the only variable for adjusting trail is head angle, or getting a custom fork. There is a fairly significant difference between an MTB fork with 45 mm offset on a 73.5 degree head angle bike and a 71 degree head angle bike. I just made this change, and 71 degrees is a lot more stable and less twitchy. But as far as I figure, head angle is only important in how it interacts with fork offset to produce trail. top tube length Most people only consider this relevant for fitting your torso, butothers figure differently. Among others, Eddie Merckx used to suggest a longer top tube and a shorter stem as a way to a nicer ride. The wheelbase is longer, but the front end steering is the same. Most riders find it more comfortable without much if any noticeable decrease in handling. Gary Fisher began to use the same concept this year and called it ‘Genesis’ geometry like he invented it. I had already spec’d a bike with the same geometry for the same reason – it is a more comfortable ride. The longer wheel base offers more filtering of the road underneath the bike.

        I find that the head angle, top tube & stem dimensions do come into play in how the bike handles in more extreme terrain.  The head angle not only affects trail, but it also affects the front-center (distance from BB to front axle) and wheelbase.  Front-center is of course also very closely related to top tube length.  Bikes with a short front-centers are less stable on very steep downhills, as it overloads the front wheel.  On the other hand, on very tight and twisty trails, or trails that require a lot of manuevering, a long front-center can make the steering much slower.  In addition, a bike with a long stem can make very sharp (low speed) turns more awkward, as the bars must be swung wider for the same steering angle. Mark McMaster

Response:

    Just purchased an MTB for my son. Standing it next to mine, it     was clear that the frame, although nearly the same size, was     shaped differently. Most noticeable was that the seat and head     tubes were closer to vertical. Measurement of most dimensions     seemed fairly close except that the top tube on my bike was     about 1" longer.     I know that different bikes have different geometry. But except     for "short chain stays help climbing" I don’t recall seeing     any general descriptions of how aspects of frame geometry affect     bike handling and feel. The things I’m curious about are:     seat tube angle

Seat tube angle is usually 73 degrees or less for people riding around others. Steeper angles than that begin to compromise your agility on the bike, because your arms have to bear too much weight when you stand. Triathlon bikes are generally steeper, some up to 78 degrees, and track bikes are often 75 degrees. But unless you are specialized as such, you will be within about 1 degree of 73 degrees.     head tube angle

The head tube angle largely determines the front wheel trail,or caster. Most forks only come with one fork offset (45 mm for off-road), thus the only variable for adjusting trail is head angle, or getting a custom fork. There is a fairly significant difference between an MTB fork with 45 mm offset on a 73.5 degree head angle bike and a 71 degree head angle bike. I just made this change, and 71 degrees is a lot more stable and less twitchy. But as far as I figure, head angle is only important in how it interacts with fork offset to produce trail.     front wheel caster (Think that’s what it’s called. The distance         between the centerline of the head tube and the center of         the front axle, and I’d guess the head tube angle figures         into this also…)

Well, the further the front wheel contact patch falls behindthe axis of the head tube, the more stable the front end becomes, and the slower the bike will turn. 73-74 degrees is a fast turning twitchy bike, while 69 degrees is a veritable slug around turns, but very stable. top tube length

Most people only consider this relevant for fitting your torso, butothers figure differently. Among others, Eddie Merckx used to suggest a longer top tube and a shorter stem as a way to a nicer ride. The wheelbase is longer, but the front end steering is the same. Most riders find it more comfortable without much if any noticeable decrease in handling. Gary Fisher began to use the same concept this year and called it ‘Genesis’ geometry like he invented it. I had already spec’d a bike with the same geometry for the same reason – it is a more comfortable ride. The longer wheel base offers more filtering of the road underneath the bike. wodeman

Response:

The general consensus is that the shallower the seat tube, the more comfortable the ride.  IMO, this is partly due the increased flex of the seatpost partly because the longer chainstays, which must be used to maintain proper weight distribution, reduce the severity of the bumps.

If your seatpost even flexes at all, it won’t do much for ride comfort.  The main effect of a slack seat tube on a mountain bike is that it puts the rider more behind the pedals, a better position from which to absorb bumps with the legs while pedaling. A bike with a slack seat tube angle can also have really short chainstays.  Rhygin frames are one example of this. Top tube length increases the wheelbase which does affect handling, but IMO should be selected based on your particular physiology, not its affect on handling.

A longer top tube can be offset by a slacker seat tube angle.  The real measurement to be concerned with is front center, the horizontal distance between the bottom bracket and the front wheel’s axle/contact patch.  This measurement isn’t usually given, but a quick look at the other measurements is enough to figure the difference between two bikes’ front centers. Matt O.

Response:

        Steeper seat tubes put more weight over the front of the bike, and are generally used in times when power is essential (typical time trial bikes and track bikes have very steep seat tubes).  As far as comfort goes, though, steeper seat tubes will really be noticeable in how much of a beating you are taking.

I was under the impression that steep seat tubes are used in applications where aerodynamics are paramount (i.e. time trials), because it facilitates a flat back position without extreme upper/lower body angles.   Bottom bracket height- lower BB’s generally mean a more stable ride.  Bikes with high BB’s (trials bikes, cyclocross, criterium bikes) tend to be less stable at speed but quicker handling.

I agree with you in theory, but I think BB height is less of a factor than we’re led to believe.  The difference between a "euro" road racing and cyclcross frame is a whopping 3/4".  For me, that’s less than a 2% increase in CG.  IMO, steering geometry has a much larger influence on the handling of different types of bikes. Mark

Response:

SO can any of you suggest a good reference for frame designs?  I am looking to build a few bikes and haven’t been able to find anything with comprehensive design explanations.  Any help would be appreciated. thanx, Chris Johannsen ". . . it surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Barta) writes:    Just purchased an MTB for my son. Standing it next to mine, it    was clear that the frame, although nearly the same size, was    shaped differently. Most noticeable was that the seat and head    tubes were closer to vertical. Measurement of most dimensions    seemed fairly close except that the top tube on my bike was    about 1" longer.    I know that different bikes have different geometry. But except    for "short chain stays help climbing" I don’t recall seeing    any general descriptions of how aspects of frame geometry affect    bike handling and feel. The things I’m curious about are:    seat tube angle    Steeper seat tubes put more weight over the front of the bike, and are generally used in times when power is essential (typical time trial bikes and track bikes have very steep seat tubes).  As far as comfort goes, though, steeper seat tubes will really be noticeable in how much of a beating you are taking.

Not necessarily.  It’s true that if you have a shallow seat tube angle, your legs are in a better position to absorb bumps while also pedaling.  However, if you’re leaned forward far enough, with a low and/or long stem, your arms will take more of your weight, and you won’t feel the bumps under your butt as much, no matter what the seat tube angle is.  Plus, more weight on your arms, and on the front wheel, means your suspension fork is doing more of the work.    head tube angle    As a rule of thumb, steeper head tubes make for quicker steering. A laid back head tube is sluggish on singletrack, but is fairly stable, so is nice at high speeds (touring road bikes and downhill bikes tend to have laid-back head tubes).

A shallow head angle coupled with a short top tube/front center can also make for a quick steering bike.    front wheel caster (Think that’s what it’s called. The distance       between the centerline of the head tube and the center of       the front axle, and I’d guess the head tube angle figures       into this also…) top tube length

Caster is the same thing as the head tube angle, comparing autos to bikes. This is generally called "trail".  Typical trail for a MTB is around 3 inches or so.  Anything less makes the front wheel quite squirmy and holding a straight line is nearly impossible.  Some other factors:

Trail is trail, no matter how you look at it. Wheelbase- distance between center of front hub and center of rear parallel to ground.  LOnger wheelbase lends greater stability and less maneuverability. The common tradeoff for a good singletrack, technical bike is squirrely handling but great manueverability.

Not necessarily.  Rider dimensions vary a lot more than bike dimensions, and bikes can be both quick and stable, or sluggish and squirrely, depending on a combination of design factors, as well as how that bike fits a particular rider.  If you ride a lot of bikes, you’ll see that the crap you read in magazines about this is just that:  crap.  A lot of the time, their measurements don’t even add up, if you bothered to work them out.  Quoting their measurements, they’ll say a bike is short, steep, and quick, when it’s really dead average, dimension-wise.  They also often gather riding impressions that are the exact opposite of what the measurements would imply. Mostly, they don’t know what they’re talking about, and even if their observations are correct, they’re greatly exaggerated, in the interest of having something to write about. Bottom bracket height- lower BB’s generally mean a more stable ride.  Bikes with high BB’s (trials bikes, cyclocross, criterium bikes) tend to be less stable at speed but quicker handling.

Taken alone, this measurement, like any other, is meaningless.  The range of common measurements here is pretty small, too, and I doubt it has much effect on anything anyway. Length of stem- more maneuverability at shorter lengths.  

Baloney, for reasonable stem lengths.  More important (with a mountain bike) is the stem’s effect on weight distribution.  A short stem can mean not enough weight on the front wheel, causing it to drift and wash out. Of course, these are all generalizations.  

Yes, they are, and out of context, perhaps inaccurate.    Opinions?

You just got them.    Facts?

I think so. Matt O.

Response:

   Just purchased an MTB for my son. Standing it next to mine, it    was clear that the frame, although nearly the same size, was    shaped differently. Most noticeable was that the seat and head    tubes were closer to vertical. Measurement of most dimensions    seemed fairly close except that the top tube on my bike was    about 1" longer.    I know that different bikes have different geometry. But except    for "short chain stays help climbing" I don’t recall seeing    any general descriptions of how aspects of frame geometry affect    bike handling and feel. The things I’m curious about are:    seat tube angle

        Steeper seat tubes put more weight over the front of the bike, and are generally used in times when power is essential (typical time trial bikes and track bikes have very steep seat tubes).  As far as comfort goes, though, steeper seat tubes will really be noticeable in how much of a beating you are taking.    head tube angle

        As a rule of thumb, steeper head tubes make for quicker steering.  A laid back head tube is sluggish on singletrack, but is fairly stable, so is nice at high speeds (touring road bikes and downhill bikes tend to have laid-back head tubes).    front wheel caster (Think that’s what it’s called. The distance    between the centerline of the head tube and the center of    the front axle, and I’d guess the head tube angle figures    into this also…) top tube length

This is generally called "trail".  Typical trail for a MTB is around 3 inches or so.  Anything less makes the front wheel quite squirmy and holding a straight line is nearly impossible.  Some other factors: Wheelbase- distance between center of front hub and center of rear parallel to ground.  LOnger wheelbase lends greater stability and less maneuverability. The common tradeoff for a good singletrack, technical bike is squirrely handling but great manueverability. Bottom bracket height- lower BB’s generally mean a more stable ride.  Bikes with high BB’s (trials bikes, cyclocross, criterium bikes) tend to be less stable at speed but quicker handling. Length of stem- more maneuverability at shorter lengths.   Of course, these are all generalizations.  Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Opinions?    Facts?    Comparisons?    (I’ll bet Sheldon "I know my geometry" Brown might know something    about this    regards,    hank — Hank Barta                              White Oak Software Inc.            Beautiful Sunny Winfield, Illinois

Response:

    Just purchased an MTB for my son. Standing it next to mine, it     was clear that the frame, although nearly the same size, was     shaped differently. Most noticeable was that the seat and head     tubes were closer to vertical. Measurement of most dimensions     seemed fairly close except that the top tube on my bike was     about 1" longer.     I know that different bikes have different geometry. But except     for "short chain stays help climbing" I don’t recall seeing     any general descriptions of how aspects of frame geometry affect     bike handling and feel. The things I’m curious about are:     seat tube angle     head tube angle     front wheel caster (Think that’s what it’s called. The distance         between the centerline of the head tube and the center of         the front axle, and I’d guess the head tube angle figures         into this also…) top tube length     Opinions?     Facts?     Comparisons?     (I’ll bet Sheldon "I know my geometry" Brown might know something     about this     regards,     hank — Hank Barta                              White Oak Software Inc.                 Beautiful Sunny Winfield, Illinois

Response:

Question:

writes: Zag threatens JJSJ that he will have to do the triathlon

in a tutu.<< I’ll stick to paying for one another’s entry fee thanks. But how do we find out for sure how many spectators were watching the Ixtapa race?

Response:

| JJSJ said: | | Then they didn’t have the legs to run. That, too | me, ain’t triathlon.<< | | To clarify a bit (whether you agree with me or not) … |  I meant that the athletes may not have really planned to finish the race, | just help out "teammates" on the bike. Therefore, since they didn’t really | plan to finish, I question the value of this athlete to the quality of | field factor. To me, this is part and parcel of allowing drafting. I’m not saying it’s bad – I enjoy the Tour de France as much as the next guy – but, if drafting is allowed, we can’t expect triathlon to remain as it is. I agree with you then, they should measure the quality of the field based on who finishes, not who started.  ..but I, also, could care less… | Actually, I could care less about any ITU World Cup rulings, as I feel the | whole series is unfair . | Lots of pros feel this way, too,  but are afraid to say anything. | Fortunately, this series is a pro problem and has little effect on | age-group racing. Chris — Ontario Telepresence Project, 2670 Queensview Dr., Ottawa, ON, K2B 8K1, CANADA

Response:

JJSJ said: Then they didn’t have the legs to run. That, too me, ain’t triathlon.<< To clarify a bit (whether you agree with me or not) …  I meant that the athletes may not have really planned to finish the race, just help out "teammates" on the bike. Therefore, since they didn’t really plan to finish, I question the value of this athlete to the quality of field factor.

Still, regardless of the plan to drop out or not. The athletes were still competing with them for most of the race.  Acutually, I would think that this situation should increase the difficulty factor.  If you’ve got people out there that are just going to blast the bike to help a teammate, then the competitiveness just went up a notch. On the ITU, (the part of the post that I deleted). I too, couldn’t really care what they decide.  I do get a little concerned however when something looks like it might trickle down to the age groupers. The good thing is that the pros look like they are begining to band together a little bit against the ITU. John K.

Response:

re: ITU quality of field debate OK. QRman was right (damn!).  I made a few calls and was told that an ITU triathlete can actually benefit him or herself by  lowering the QOF points of another  ITU’er by dropping out. It’s hard to figure. Perhaps SZAG can get Mr. Gilmore on Internet to explain the fabulous concept for those folks who are really interested.

Response:

To clarify a bit (whether you agree with me or not) … I meant that the athletes may not have really planned to finish the race, just help out "teammates" on the bike. Therefore, since they didn’t really plan to finish, I question the value of this athlete to the quality of field factor.

I didn’t understand what you meant before either, but your clarification clears it up for me. The issue of "teammates" in a triathlon working like domestiques really changes the idea of triathlon being an individual sport. IMHO, drafting legal triathlons belong in rec.sport.bogus.                            _ <_         <               ___/o__    ( )/( )       /

Response:

JJSJ said: Then they didn’t have the legs to run. That, too me, ain’t triathlon.<<

To clarify a bit (whether you agree with me or not) …  I meant that the athletes may not have really planned to finish the race, just help out "teammates" on the bike. Therefore, since they didn’t really plan to finish, I question the value of this athlete to the quality of field factor. Actually, I could care less about any ITU World Cup rulings, as I feel the whole series is unfair . Lots of pros feel this way, too,  but are afraid to say anything. Fortunately, this series is a pro problem and has little effect on age-group racing.

Response:

To clarify a bit (whether you agree with me or not) … I didn’t understand what you meant before either, but your clarification clears it up for me. The issue of "teammates" in a triathlon working like domestiques really changes the idea of triathlon being an individual sport. IMHO, drafting legal triathlons belong in rec.sport.bogus.

I think it would be fun to have 2 types of tri-s.  1) the original non-drafting ITT and 2) a true team tri where the teams time is the third across the line (all members do all three events) like TTT in cycling. This would also accurately and correctly acknowledge the ITU’s draft-legal races as team time-trials. Pat —    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

Response:

Gotsick) writes: How did the ITU manage to foist this monstrosity

onto the sport?  What can we do to reverse it?  The answers are obvious:  We didn’t speak up early on, and we have to do so now.<< Remember the saying "What if they gave a war and nobody came? Or the tired cliche: The tail doesn’t wag the dog. This thread is getting sizzling! Didn’t it start with a set of race results? The athletes (pro and age-group) are the real powerbrokers, the movers and shakers of this sport, not the ITU or sports agents of the stars, or writers.  You can speak and vote with your dollars and presence (or lack of).

Response:

Gotsick) writes: …Drafting is not what this sport is about.  I don’t want to see it in age-group races and I don’t want to see it in pro races either.  How did the ITU manage to foist this monstrosity onto the sport?

TV $$$$

Response:

Brug) writes:

<<a true team tri where the teams time is the third across the line (all members do all three events) like TTT in cycling.  This would also accurately and correctly acknowledge the ITU’s draft-legal races as team time-trials. This is a great idea, I love it.  Especially in events which are raced by participants who are representatives of a team, i.e., Worlds.  This is such a good idea, I am sure nothing will come of it. QRman

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gotsick) writes: How did the ITU manage to foist this monstrosity onto the sport?  What can we do to reverse it?  The answers are obvious:  We didn’t speak up early on, and we have to do so now.<< Remember the saying "What if they gave a war and nobody came? Or the tired cliche: The tail doesn’t wag the dog. This thread is getting sizzling! Didn’t it start with a set of race results? The athletes (pro and age-group) are the real powerbrokers, the movers and shakers of this sport, not the ITU or sports agents of the stars, or writers.

If this was/is true, then all the pros should have showed up to the Gold Coast World tri where Tinely/Pigg/Allen were banned.  It would have been pretty interesting season if all the pros/elites had been banned.  Until athletes start sticking together, we’ll only have a few martyrs and be the sport will still be dominated by sports agents / writers etc. Pat —    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

Response:

JJSJ said: Actually, I could care less about any ITU World Cup rulings, as I feel the whole series is unfair . Lots of pros feel this way, too,  but are afraid to say anything. Fortunately, this series is a pro problem and has little effect on age-group racing.

Don’t forget, the ITU represents *International* Triathlon issues – the USA (and its pros) represent one country out of the total of countries in the ITU (about 190?), as important as we think we are.

Response:

: JJSJ said: : : Actually, I could care less about any ITU World Cup rulings, as I feel the : whole series is unfair . : Lots of pros feel this way, too,  but are afraid to say anything. : Fortunately, this series is a pro problem and has little effect on : age-group racing. on’t forget, the ITU represents *International* Triathlon issues – the USA and its pros) represent one country out of the total of countries in the :ITU about 190?), as important as we think we are. So what? Where are the national federations that are so keen on having drafting in triathlon legalized? The ones I know of (Germany, France, Switzerland) do not, or if they do they say:         We’ve got to go with the format the World Championships         and the Olympics are going to have… If only they ganged up together and pressurised the ITU on ENFORCING THE RULES as they stand, for a year or two. And then we’ll see if they really are unenforceable. And then we could take a vote (first, each nation on its own, and then in an ITU General Assembly (if such a thing exists)) and see where the majority wants to go. Would make a nice change from the handful of ITU-officials working their backsides off without any contact to reality. —                             Ulrich Porsch             Wer spricht vom Siegen, "Ubersteh’n ist alles  

Response:

writes: <<<Yes, I was wondering what happened to three of the top guys who were noted on the press release as the swim leaders — Andrew MacMartin, currently #2 in overall standings; Wes Hobson, #3; and Nate Llerandi, #10 — yet didn’t finish among the top 10 in the race. MacMartin and Hobson both dropped out on the run.  Wes said 4th and 5th place had passed him and he felt it would be better for him to drop out to bring down QF factor.  This is probably true since he is so high up in standings and may jeopardize his #3 spot.  Same for MacMartin.  He didn’t seem very confident the night before the race and confessed he was not super sharp, so I don’t think he was in contention for a top spot.  Llerandi finished 17th, I believe, with a very bad run.   — HKS WEST, Inc.                                  Phone: (510) 794-5891 Suite 205                                       3900 Newpark Mall Road                   Newark, California 94560

Response:

Brug) writes:

<<…all the pros should have showed up to the Gold Coast World tri where Tinely/Pigg/Allen were banned.  It would have been pretty interesting season if all the pros/elites had been banned. If all the pros had shown up, there would have been no ban.  Remember that the reason for the ban was (race promoter) Barry Voevodin’s insistence on his use of the word "World".  You will notice that we just had the Ironman Triathlon "World Championship" (which was not at all the world championship, according to the ITU) and there was no mention of an ITU ban on athletes who would compete in that race. But back to the drafting thing-  I don’t see why you guys are so upset. For pros only, on a loop course, especially in a team format (which hasn’t happened yet, but will) I think it’s great.  Would I like it for non-loop courses, for age-group athletes, or for all races?  No to all of the above.  But it was fine in Orange County, and would be for races like that.   The only thing that bothers me is that Ixtapa was not the place for a drafting legal race, IMHO, so me wonders why they did it, unless the intent of the ITU is to make drafting the way of all races.   In nordic skiing there are classic and freestyle races, where the practicioners of both disciplines get a chance to shine.  What about both kinds of racing in triathlon, with world championships alternating in style from year to year? QRman

Response:

writes: I therefore propose a rule change that judges the quality of the field based on those athletes who start the race.<< QRman I have to disagree with you on this one issue. I heard that some of the riders "sacrificed" themselves on the draft-legal bike (paceline) to catch up to the leader. Then they didn’t have the legs to run. That, too me, ain’t triathlon. So I’d say the quality of field as in finishers would be more in the interest of fairness.

I agree with Dan.  The current system devalues the efforts of the winner– especially if someone is "having the race of their life" and won’t win another event all year. Pat —    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

Response:

writes: I therefore propose a rule change that judges the quality of the field based on those athletes who start the race.<< QRman I have to disagree with you on this one issue. I heard that some of the riders "sacrificed" themselves on the draft-legal bike (paceline) to catch up to the leader. Then they didn’t have the legs to run. That, too me, ain’t triathlon.

Yeah, so. That doesn’t mean you should drop out! As far as the other racers are concerned (the ones that finished) they were still racing a top field for at least 2/3 of the race.  I side with QRman.  Now, that drafting thing is another issue (you said it well, that ain’t triathlon) John K.

Response:

QRman, who witnessed the Ixtapa World Cup race, notes: A couple of the top pros, those who are well up in the ITU World Cup standings, dropped out.  They were having okay races, but by finishing the race at all they would lend "value" to the race (from a points perspective) because of its increased "difficulty of field".  By dropping out these athletes insured that the top finishers got fewer points.   Yes, I was wondering what happened to three of the top guys who were noted on the press release as the swim leaders — Andrew MacMartin, currently #2 in overall standings; Wes Hobson, #3; and Nate Llerandi, #10 — yet didn’t finish among the top 10 in the race. So, Scott … did they finish, or did they drop out? QRman brings up a most interesting point. Katy Williams

Response:

<<ITU WORLD CUP IXTAPA RESULTS [snip] I just got back from there, fellow netter Andy Kelsey got his first Mexican experience, and had a good race as well.  The race was well put on, as are most of the races in Mexico. One thing bothered me.  A couple of the top pros, those who are well up in the ITU World Cup standings, dropped out.  They were having okay races, but by finishing the race at all they would lend "value" to the race (from a points perspective) because of its increased "difficulty of field".  By dropping out these athletes insured that the top finishers got fewer points.   I therefore propose a rule change that judges the quality of the field based on those athletes who start the race. QRman

Response:

ZAG

Response:

Zag threatens JJSJ that he will have to do the triathlon in a tutu. That would be a lot easier than doing ballet in boxing shorts. The strength, endurance and skill of ballet is way beyond me; I’ll stick to the easy stuff – triathlons. Kazez

Response:

writes: I therefore propose a rule change that judges the quality of the field

based on those athletes who start the race.<< QRman I have to disagree with you on this one issue. I heard that some of the riders "sacrificed" themselves on the draft-legal bike (paceline) to catch up to the leader. Then they didn’t have the legs to run. That, too me, ain’t triathlon. So I’d say the quality of field as in finishers would be more in the interest of fairness. As I said before Ixtapa is a great place to race. Tons of fun. If I had the bucks I’d go down there and  do it myself. Jeffrey Justice P.S.  Dan how many spectators would you say were there?

Response:

ITU WORLD CUP IXTAPA RESULTS DRAFTING LEGAL, VERY HOT. 25,000 in the crowd for the multiple lap course. Smith and Beven shoulder to shoulder until the very end. Laurence leads off the bike in a group of four. Rose gets a lead out of the transition. Webb narrows the gap but fails to close. 1. BRAD BEVEN/AUS 2. SPENCER SMITH/GBR  -:08 3. RICARDO GONZALES/MEX -:42 4. PHILLIPE FATORI/FRA -1:02 5. BRAD KEARNS/USA – 1:22 1. JENNY ROSE/NZL 2. KATIE WEBB/USA  -:13 3. JANET HATFIELD/USA -:43 4. GAIL LAURENCE/USA – 1:33 5. MARIA LUISA MARTINEZ/MEX -6:33 STANDINGS 1. BEVEN/AUS 2. MACMARTIN/CAN 3. HOBSON/USA 4. FATORI/FRA 5. MAUCH/SUI 1. ROSE/NZL 2. WESTHOFF/GER 3. LAURENCE/USA 4. WEBB/USA 5. HATFIELD/USA

Response:

25,000 in the crowd for the multiple lap course.<<<

Scott I’ve been to Ixtapa before, it’s a great race. But if this crowd count is even *1/2 true*, I, in front of all the Internet witnesses, will pay for your entry into the  the next ITU race that comes your way.  But if it’s not, you pay for my entry into Orange County in 1995? Deal? JJ

Response:

Scott,  I’m confused. I see that Ixtapa was drafting-legal. Thus, I have some questions: 1.) Why was Ixtapa a drafting-legal race, if it wasn’t among the three ITU World Cup races (Osaka, Whistler, Sion) that NBC chose to televise in ‘94? I had the impression that drafting was adopted because "television wouldn’t take it unless it was more exciting." 2.) 1994 was the ITU’s "great experiment" with drafting in ITU World Cup races — at least five, right? What has been the result? Will ITU adopt drafting for all of its World Cup races in 1995, if it was indeed received as a great success? When will the 1995 ITU schedule be announced, and when it will it be determined which races will be drafting-legal? 3.) If drafting is such the success that ITU officials may claim it is, then why is the ITU stopping short of allowing drafting in the World Championships on Nov. 28 (at least among the pros)? Or, maybe I missed something. Will there be drafting in the World Championships? Why, or why not? I definitely missed the announcement that there would be drafting in Ixtapa, the ITU’s lead-up race to the World Championships … Katy Williams

Response: