Question:

I suppose, then, it’s just *my* personal preference and a few misguided TV execs who would choose to watch TV coverage of the top runners as opposed to hoards of back-of-pack.  Perhaps at the Super-Bowls we should have more panoramic views of the grandstands and less of the game. Jennifer Funny how the Ironman Triathlon coverage spends *most* of it’s time on human interest stories, not the elites.  

I’ve never seen the Ironman television coverage, and am therefore ignorant  of the television focus. However, I suspect that a substantial amount of the coverage is dedicated to the ultimate winner(s) — possibly even *most* Of course you could *never* be wrong.

My preference is a question of wrong or right??  I don’t follow you. (Example "I prefer diet Coke"  "You’re wrong!!")  What’s wrong? My preference? I simply, first, stated my preference (I prefer to watch the ones in competition to win.) and second, I noted that typical TV coverage focuses on those who win in the competition.   Presumably, TV execs believe (correctly or incorrectly) that the viewing audience and Ad dollars prefer coverage of the winners to the coverage of the masses. Am I wrong on the last presumption? Jennifer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suppose, then, it’s just *my* personal preference and a few misguided TV execs who would choose to watch TV coverage of the top runners as opposed to hoards of back-of-pack.  Perhaps at the Super-Bowls we should have more panoramic views of the grandstands and less of the game. Jennifer Funny how the Ironman Triathlon coverage spends *most* of it’s time on human interest stories, not the elites. I’ve never seen the Ironman television coverage, and am therefore ignorant of the television focus. However, I suspect that a substantial amount of the coverage is dedicated to the ultimate winner(s) — possibly even *most*

You suspect wrong.  The last Ironman broadcast (and most in the past) conisist of maybe 50/50 elite/human interest but probably closer to 35/65. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course you could *never* be wrong. My preference is a question of wrong or right??  I don’t follow you. (Example "I prefer diet Coke"  "You’re wrong!!")  What’s wrong? My preference? I simply, first, stated my preference (I prefer to watch the ones in competition to win.) and second, I noted that typical TV coverage focuses on those who win in the competition. Presumably, TV execs believe (correctly or incorrectly) that the viewing audience and Ad dollars prefer coverage of the winners to the coverage of the masses. Am I wrong on the last presumption? Jennifer

You also inferred crowds show up for the elites.  Well at the Gasparilla Distance Classic here in Tampa, the crowds have actually increased the last couple years since award money was discontinued.  Not even the overall winner gets $1, thus no elites show up.  And even still the crowds increase? I use to live in Chicago and both ran and attended the Chicago Marathon. People lining the course could careless about the elites.  If they cared so much, wouldn’t they all leave once the elites had passed by? Chris

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  CBC has the best coverage that can be seen in the US.  Even US sports channels (like ESPN) have really rotten coverage.  During Boston last year they showed the men’s and women’s leaders, and the top US male only when he happened to be in the lead pack.  I spent a great deal of time running with or near the lead AMerican women, but they were never televised (and only once did I even see a motorcycle come back and film them).  Seems like the American public would take at least as much interest as how our own best are doing as the foreign elite… Andy Hass

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The popularity of these events is linked to the human interest value they generate.

I agree to a certain extent when it comes to marathons and Iron Man competitions. OTOH, the networks have put so much emphasis on human interest stories in Olympics coverage over the years that it makes me want to throw up just to think about it. I want to watch the competitions. I could care less about the participants’ sob stories. — Robert

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You also inferred crowds show up for the elites. Well at the Gasparilla Distance Classic here in Tampa, the crowds have actually increased the last couple years since award money was discontinued. Not even the overall winner gets $1, thus no elites show up. And even still the crowds increase?

When I lived in Tampa,  I always wanted to run Gasparilla.  I haven’t even heard of it in the past few years.  I personally have no desire to run it now that the elite runners wouldn’t be there.  I’m more of a fan of the sport than a competitor.   The crowds that you mentioned aren’t fans of the elite sport of running. They are there to watch their friends run or take part in a fun activity.  I don’t see anything wrong with that, but that’s not what I want to see. I use to live in Chicago and both ran and attended the Chicago Marathon. People lining the course could careless about the elites. If they cared so much, wouldn’t they all leave once the elites had passed by?

That’s exactly what we did at Chicago.  We followed the elite runners for over 15 miles, catching them at different points.  I usually watch the Columbus marathon up to 3:00 hours and then leave.  If I were at the finish line of the New York or London Marathons, I would stay until the top 10 or so females finished.  I don’t like it when television coverage shows the top American runners, because they are waisting time that could be spent on the front runners.  I hate all of the human interest stories, even the ones on the elite runners.  I just want to watch the lead runner for 26.2 miles.     Troy

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Every year sports are covered. including Marathons.  haven’t  2 hours. I have trouble sometimes ridding a bike 26.2 miles in 2 hours. "unless lots of mosquitoes"

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I’ve never seen the Ironman television coverage, and am therefore ignorant  of the television focus. However, I suspect that a substantial amount of the coverage is dedicated to the ultimate winner(s) — possibly even *most*

It seemed to me that a majority of the Ironman coverage was on the elites and that was all I wanted to see.  I get sick of the human interest stories in the Olympics and at major competitions.  I love to see marathon finishes like the 1996 men’s Olympic finals where the top 3 men finished on the track at the same time.  The winner was in doubt for a long time and to me, that is a thrill. David Olsen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course you could *never* be wrong. My preference is a question of wrong or right??  I don’t follow you. (Example "I prefer diet Coke"  "You’re wrong!!")  What’s wrong? My preference? I simply, first, stated my preference (I prefer to watch the ones in competition to win.) and second, I noted that typical TV coverage focuses on those who win in the competition. Presumably, TV execs believe (correctly or incorrectly) that the viewing audience and Ad dollars prefer coverage of the winners to the coverage of the masses. Am I wrong on the last presumption? Jennifer

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The TV stations put on what they *think* will sell ads. It has nothing to do what the viewers want to see.

This statement makes no logical sense.  Advertisers buy ads based on what people watch.  if no one watches the show, it will not sell ads.  therfore, if they are selling ads, its because the ad people believe its what the viewers want to see. Bruce

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As I look up at some of the Ocean State back in the 1980’s and the Long Island Marathon run within a week of the Boston,the dedication to Marathoning has dropped just like the stock Markey. I could set a pace and if neccessary increase or decrease over the 26.2 miles. It’s not like the 5K or 10K where you HAVE to go out as fast as you can, sometimes to find yourself watching everyone from aside. Besides that there over in such a short time, and you really don’t have all the chances you might have in the Marathon to test and wear out your fellow runner. You trained hard but you got the thrill and the chance to test yourself, your training and your desire. Heck, ABC doesn’t even carry the NYC anymore, you got to have cable. That tell’s you right there on the stage of USA running.

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Heck, ABC doesn’t even carry the NYC anymore, you got to have cable.

NBC carried "highlights" of it.  I don’t think you got anything more if you had cable (at least not in the US), there was better coverage on the foreign feeds.

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Heck, ABC doesn’t even carry the NYC anymore, you got to have cable. NBC carried "highlights" of it.  I don’t think you got anything more if you had cable (at least not in the US), there was better coverage on the foreign feeds.

Yep.  The whole thing was live in England. — Brian Wakem

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NBC showed 5 hours of coverage for the past two NYC Marathons.   It was just on the NBC New York Channel.   Troy

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I watched the 2001 NYC marathon on TV (here in Washington) and it was an hour which is not enough time to show both the leaders and the rest of the runners celebrating not only life but probably a highlight in their own lives.  Needless to say most of the coverage was on the elite. I think that’s sad. I forgot which world class marathoner said it but he (she) said (and I paraphrase) "If it wasn’t for the six hour plodders no one would care about the elite. People are interested in a 20,000 runner event. If it where just 20 of us racing through NYC to see who would win the crowds would be home".  I think there is a lot of truth in that. The elite get the coverage because of the six hour plodders and unfortunately, ABC only has about 40 minutes to cover the race. It should be three times that with less time on the elite. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I look up at some of the Ocean State back in the 1980’s and the Long Island Marathon run within a week of the Boston,the dedication to Marathoning has dropped just like the stock Markey. I could set a pace and if neccessary increase or decrease over the 26.2 miles. It’s not like the 5K or 10K where you HAVE to go out as fast as you can, sometimes to find yourself watching everyone from aside. Besides that there over in such a short time, and you really don’t have all the chances you might have in the Marathon to test and wear out your fellow runner. You trained hard but you got the thrill and the chance to test yourself, your training and your desire. Heck, ABC doesn’t even carry the NYC anymore, you got to have cable. That tell’s you right there on the stage of USA running.

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. The elite get the coverage because of the six hour plodders and unfortunately, ABC only has about 40 minutes to cover the race. It should be three times that with less time on the elite.

ABC had zero minutes on the race.  It was NBC that had the minimal coverage.

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Sorry, but that really wasn’t my point. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . The elite get the coverage because of the six hour plodders and unfortunately, ABC only has about 40 minutes to cover the race. It should be three times that with less time on the elite. ABC had zero minutes on the race.  It was NBC that had the minimal coverage.

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<< Needless to say most of the coverage was on the elite. I think that’s sad. Sad?  Similarly, tv covers NBA games, not pick-up games.  Major league not little league.  Concert pianists not school recitals.  They choose the people who excel not because of a moral judgement but rather a financial dicision: the viewing audience perfers it. << I forgot which world class marathoner said it but he (she) said (and I paraphrase) "If it wasn’t for the six hour plodders no one would care about the elite. I believe that whoever said it was clueless.  Crowds turn out for the Tour de France, for the Olympic qualifying races, for the Head of the Charles boating events, each of which feature only the top athletes of their event.  Why would a marathon featuring a national or world class field be different? Jennifer

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Heck, ABC doesn’t even carry the NYC anymore, you got to have cable. NBC carried "highlights" of it.  I don’t think you got anything more if you had cable (at least not in the US), there was better coverage on the foreign feeds.

The whole thing was live on New York TV – of course you had to be in NY or get NY tv on satellite. Bruce

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<< Needless to say most of the coverage was on the elite. I think that’s sad. Sad?  Similarly, tv covers NBA games, not pick-up games.  Major league not little league.  Concert pianists not school recitals.  They choose the people who excel not because of a moral judgement but rather a financial dicision: the viewing audience perfers it.

Probably true. But, the attraction of the public non-runners to an event like the NYC marathon is that it is a world class event in which the average guy or gal can be a part of. The man on the street wants to see the person who is just another average citizen running in the same event as the elites (even if they are 2 hours behind!). In other sports, like baseball, you are not going to see the Yankees invite people down from the stands to pinch-hit in the ninth inning against Nolan Ryan. The popularity of these events is linked to the human interest value they generate. After all, do you think that most New Yorkers really give a rip about running as a sport the other 99.999% of the time? Something else lures those thousands of people out onto the sidelines. The TV stations put on what they *think* will sell ads. It has nothing to do what the viewers want to see.

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[snip] After all, do you think that most New Yorkers really give a rip about running as a sport the other 99.999% of the time?

The Milrose Mile packs ‘em in at Madison Square Garden each year.   The TV stations put on what they *think* will sell ads. It has nothing to do what the viewers want to see.

I suppose, then, it’s just *my* personal preference and a few misguided TV execs who would choose to watch TV coverage of the top runners as opposed to hoards of back-of-pack.  Perhaps at the Super-Bowls we should have more panoramic views of the grandstands and less of the game. Jennifer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] After all, do you think that most New Yorkers really give a rip about running as a sport the other 99.999% of the time? The Milrose Mile packs ‘em in at Madison Square Garden each year. The TV stations put on what they *think* will sell ads. It has nothing to do what the viewers want to see. I suppose, then, it’s just *my* personal preference and a few misguided TV execs who would choose to watch TV coverage of the top runners as opposed to hoards of back-of-pack.  Perhaps at the Super-Bowls we should have more panoramic views of the grandstands and less of the game. Jennifer

Funny how the Ironman Triathlon coverage spends *most* of it’s time on human interest stories, not the elites.  Of course you could *never* be wrong. Chris

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Question:

I did the first IM USA and no one needed a neoprene cap, although as I remember the race was later in the year. Check the race website for info on water temps. good luck

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The water there can be pretty cold that early in the season. I did a triathlon in Lake George many years ago at that time of year and the water was a "balmy" 62F. A tad chilly; depends on how sensitive you are to that temperature. My advice would be to buy the cap and be on the safe side. If you have a lake in your area, test it out a little. More importantly, bring it to Lake Placid How much warmer does the cap feel compared to a latex one?  I keep forgetting mine, so my swims in San Francisco Bay are bare in the 57 range.  Seems fine, some days the feet complained more.  I’d really like to be wearing socks.  I think I’d find the neoprene cap confining. — Rec.scuba strokes pics page: www.jor.com/strokes Aquashot page: www.jor.com/dive/aquashot

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The water there can be pretty cold that early in the season. I did a triathlon in Lake George many years ago at that time of year and the water was a "balmy" 62F. A tad chilly;<snip

Also the weather can be very cold, did a 1/2 iron therabouts a few years back and the water was ok but it was about 40 outside and drizzling (it was June I believe), I had full fingered gloves, someone offered me $100 for them at the beginning of the bike.  Getting out of that water into the cold air was pure torture.  Be prepared for anything up there. Tim buaidh no bas

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I would expect the water to be low to mid 60’s.  A long john works for me. Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to do the Triathlon in Lake Placid on June the 2nd and I wonder if any one know how cold the water is there. I am buying a full wetsuit for this triathlon but I don’t know If I should buy a neoprene cap or not.. Any advice for a newbie in cold waters?? thanks

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I am going to do the Triathlon in Lake Placid on June the 2nd and I wonder if any one know how cold the water is there

I was in Lake Placid this past weekend and, unlike last year at this time, people were actually swimming.  I didn’t test the water myself but the estimates put the water temp in the low 50s.  They’re expecting rain for the next four days which could lower the temperature a bit.  I read somewhere that the race will become a duathlon if the water temperature is below 55. As someone else stated, the weather is highly variable in LP so be ready for anything.  It was 70+ and sunny this weekend but barely 40 and rainy last year at this time. Any advice for a newbie in cold waters?

Get into the water as early as possible and get used to it for 10 minutes before the start of the race if possible. Cheers, Doug "hate the cold water" Fuller

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The water there can be pretty cold that early in the season. I did a triathlon in Lake George many years ago at that time of year and the water was a "balmy" 62F. A tad chilly; depends on how sensitive you are to that temperature. My advice would be to buy the cap and be on the safe side. If you have a lake in your area, test it out a little. More importantly, bring it to Lake Placid

How much warmer does the cap feel compared to a latex one?  I keep forgetting mine, so my swims in San Francisco Bay are bare in the 57 range.  Seems fine, some days the feet complained more.  I’d really like to be wearing socks.  I think I’d find the neoprene cap confining.   — Rec.scuba strokes pics page: www.jor.com/strokes Aquashot page: www.jor.com/dive/aquashot

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I am going to do the Triathlon in Lake Placid on June the 2nd and I wonder if any one know how cold the water is there. I am buying a full wetsuit for this triathlon but I don’t know If I should buy a neoprene cap or not.. Any advice for a newbie in cold waters?? thanks

The water there can be pretty cold that early in the season. I did a triathlon in Lake George many years ago at that time of year and the water was a "balmy" 62F. A tad chilly; depends on how sensitive you are to that temperature. My advice would be to buy the cap and be on the safe side. If you have a lake in your area, test it out a little. More importantly, bring it to Lake Placid with you. You should be able to swim a little bit the day before the race. Swim with and without the cap; you will get a good feeling what equipment you will need for race day. Hope this helps.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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I am going to do the Triathlon in Lake Placid on June the 2nd and I wonder if any one know how cold the water is there. I am buying a full wetsuit for this triathlon but I don’t know If I should buy a neoprene cap or not.. Any advice for a newbie in cold waters?? thanks

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Question:

I’m confused.  I can’t seem to figure out where and when the National Championships are.  I’ve heard that there is more than one, Mrs T’s and Lake Placid, but I just found out from an earlier post that Mrs T’s is Lake Placid!  Can anyone help me out?  And do these races have World Spots?  Thanks in advance. Adam "A Very Confused Junior" Henry

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There isn’t much posted yet about ‘01 but check out www.usatriathlon.org for future updates of 2001 races. The only ‘01 championship race posted is copied below: 2001 National Sprint Championship August 5, 2001 Huntington’s Disease Triathlon Key Biscayne, FL

Question:

Hey RST’er, I’m off to Claremont in a couple of weeks for my first 1/2 IM, and I’m trying to find a deal on a travel case. I’ve looked at Performance (used to work at a local Performance shop here in Chicago area), and remember there was another one "Tri-it-all" or something like that? Do they have a website? Anyone know where I can find some used ones? I’m actually corresponding with a girl at American Airlines to see if we can establish a frequent flyer program to use my miles to offset the price of my bike (usually around $40 one way!). Wouldn’t that be sweet! I’d pass on the free upgrade to first class anyday if it meant I could bring the trusty Kestrel Anyway, any advice or direction you all may have would be greatly appreciated Craig "eternal promoter of the midpack age groupers" Preston

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Hey Craig,         Check out http://www.crateworks.com/index.html for some pretty inexpensive solutions.  I found their ad in the back of Triathlete Mag along with one or two others that were similar.  I actually bought the Pro-XL-C (CORR-X high density polyethylene; holds bike and wheels) along with the wheel caddy(allows box to roll) for my first trip with my bike and was very satisfied.  Although, my semi-sceptical, overly-cautious side did prompt me to buy a couple of 8′ lengths of pipe insulation (~$1.50 each) to completely cushion each individual tube of my trusty stead, all signs indicate that even that was overkill.         Yes, be sure to confirm the specific airline regulations not only for the airline you’ll be using, but for the specific airport(s) as well; I’ve found that sometimes the same carrier seems to have different policies from airport to airport.  For instance, Continental at NY LaGuardia let me check my bike box at no charge since I wasn’t checking any other baggage.  Continental at Houston, however, required that I send it air cargo for ~$78.00(inc. insurance) and it arrived about a day after I did. – Todd "Pain is inevitable… misery is optional!" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey RST’er, I’m off to Claremont in a couple of weeks for my first 1/2 IM, and I’m trying to find a deal on a travel case. I’ve looked at Performance (used to work at a local Performance shop here in Chicago area), and remember there was another one "Tri-it-all" or something like that? Do they have a website? Anyone know where I can find some used ones? I’m actually corresponding with a girl at American Airlines to see if we can establish a frequent flyer program to use my miles to offset the price of my bike (usually around $40 one way!). Wouldn’t that be sweet! I’d pass on the free upgrade to first class anyday if it meant I could bring the trusty Kestrel Anyway, any advice or direction you all may have would be greatly appreciated Craig "eternal promoter of the midpack age groupers" Preston

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Question:

The Inland Inferno Triathlon Club will be hosting an open water swim clinic on August 30th at Seal Beach, CA.  The clinic will be given by author and world record holder Penny Dean.  This is a rare opportunity to learn from one of the greatest open water swimmers in the history of the sport.  There will be a $5.00 charge to cover our expenses and help support the club’s operation.  If you are interested in attending, e-mail me and I will give you the details. Gary McMurtrey Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

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Question:

Fleck) writes: In a draft-illegal age group race, it may be a help as the race field would be considerably more spread out after swimming AND running. Problems with this that I can see is judging from the number of people collapsing at the end of triathlon races in their current format, I am not sure you want these people navigating a bike in the dying stages of a race.

Believe me, in bike races people can and do collapse too.  The (good or bad?) thing about being on a bike is that it holds you up to a certain extent, so you can dig yourself so deep into a hole that you might not be able to stand or walk, but you can recover for a few seconds of softer pedalling and keep riding. JT  

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Just a question that nobody seems to want to answer-NOT trying to start anything-I’m just curious-

Oh sure… Seems drafting triathlons are here to stay- Why not do the run second and the bike last??Seems it would eliminate the team problem.. Peter

Nothing new here. There have been races with that format. Back in the mid-80s (the good old days) there were all kinds of different and odd distances and formats. I liked the bike last, but it can cause safety problems at the finish line with all the amateurish high-speed sprint finishes. I guess it would be OK for small pro fields only. But imagine an age-group bike leg  last at a race like Mrs. T’s? The race format that I like the best (and maybe the ITU should reconsider) was the one in Southern California in the very early days that allowed one to either swim or paddle in one of those big  innertubes. — Jeffrey Justice Oceanside, CA Oceanside, CA

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Nothing new here. There have been races with that format. Back in the mid-80s (the good old days) there were all kinds of different and odd distances and formats. I liked the bike last, but it can cause safety problems at the finish line with all the amateurish high-speed sprint finishes. I guess it would be OK for small pro fields only. But imagine an age-group bike leg  last at a race like Mrs. T’s? The race format that I like the best (and maybe the ITU should reconsider) was the one in Southern California in the very early days that allowed one to either swim or paddle in one of those big  innertubes. — Jeffrey Justice

Jeff, The inner tube idea might have some merit. Bricks in the water like me could use the help. However, in all seriousness, long time observers of the sport, like you and me, know that the ratio of distances(swim/bike/run) is somewhat flawed. I hate swimming, but the swim is too short. I often thought the most intriguing set up was from a race that used to be run back in the 80’s(here’s to the good old days again) on the east coast that had approximatly equal time for each of the three legs. It was something like 2.5 mile swim/25 mile bike/10 mile run – legs that that would take a good athlete about an hour to complete. Total race time:3 Hrs. Steve Fleck  

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Just a question that nobody seems to want to answer-NOT trying to start anything-I’m just curious- Seems drafting triathlons are here to stay- Why not do the run second and the bike last??Seems it would eliminate the team problem.. Peter

Just to try to keep the thread on track…  One change that I would dislike is that all of those longsuffering swimmers would lose the tactical advantage of getting out of the water first. That is, with the bike leg second,you hitch up to the first train that passes.  This would not be possible with a run, of course.  Triathletes would still not be motivated to master swimming to the extent that they have to master running and cycling. rsquared

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Just a question that nobody seems to want to answer-NOT trying to start anything-I’m just curious- Seems drafting triathlons are here to stay- Why not do the run second and the bike last??Seems it would eliminate the team problem.. Peter

That’s EZ– in an Olympic distance triathlon most people do not want to run 25 miles and bike only 6 miles;-) D.J.     (IRONKID)—-yea, I know, GO STAND IN THE CORNER:-(

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Just a question that nobody seems to want to answer-NOT trying to start anything-I’m just curious- Seems drafting triathlons are here to stay- Why not do the run second and the bike last??Seems it would eliminate the team problem.. Peter

Actually this has been suggested and discussed. The problem with this format, from what I can see, is that with the bike last, in a drafting legal race you may actually have someone ride someone elses wheel right to the finish line, as in a cycling race. At least with having the run last, the athlete must get through the final stage of the race on their own with little outside influence from other athletes. In a draft-illegal age group race, it may be a help as the race field would be considerably more spread out after swimming AND running. Problems with this that I can see is judging from the number of people collapsing at the end of triathlon races in their current format, I am not sure you want these people navigating a bike in the dying stages of a race. My conclusion is that it would be worth a try. Steve Fleck

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Switching the order of bike, run could cause problems in hot conditions.  Have you ever seen someone blow up before finishing and "crawl" to the finish?  Imagine what might happen if the blow out occurred while on the bike.  I’ve seen disoriented runners run into spectators.  It’d be much worse at bike speeds.

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I have raced this swim/run/bike format and Peter is correct; it greatly reduces the bike packs. Irrespective of whether or not the "trustees of triathlon" ever accept drafting in "their" sport, IMHO strong consideration should be given to changing the official order from swim/bike/run to swim/run/bike in mass start tri’s. Note:  The swim/run/bike order also allows for a multi-multisport event combining a foot race, duathlon and triathlon.  All can be started at the same time on the same course, providing for a very broad appeal race venue. The Yuma Tinman Triathlon in Yuma, Arizona, uses this format. I’m with Peter 100% on this issue.  Don’t knock it ’till you try it. "Life’s a brick" "I’ve got a hardon for carbon" "Don’t start me en-masse, then tell me not to draft"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just a question that nobody seems to want to answer-NOT trying to start anything-I’m just curious- Seems drafting triathlons are here to stay- Why not do the run second and the bike last??Seems it would eliminate the team problem.. Peter

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Peter asks: Just a question that nobody seems to want to answer-NOT trying to start anything-I’m just curious-

Peter Actually I believe this subject has been discussed quite often over the last 8 or so months(how long I’ve been reading this forum) Seems drafting triathlons are here to stay-

I hope this statement is incorrect, I won’t take this moment to to discuss why i feel so strongly against drafting in triathlon, but I do hope drafting in triathlon will prove to be a mistake and I hope in 2004 we see a draft-free triathlon in the olympics.  I think this is a possibility if all those in triathlon who are against draft-legal triathlons take a stand against them. Why not do the run second and the bike last??Seems it would eliminate the team problem.. Peter

I’m honestly against any change in triathlon, I love the sport the way it is, triathlon as a swim-no draft bike-run has changed my life over the last 4 years.  Many people go through there entire life without finding anything that gives them as much happiness as triathlon gives to me.  However I understand how people will want to try new and interesting things as a offshoot of triathlon, such as duathlons(though this is of course a fine sport unto itself), adventure racing ect…  So I would certianlely be willing to try a triathlon with a swim-run-bike format on occasion, it sounds like fun.  I recentely did  a duathlon with a run-bike format and enjoyed it immensely, for once I got to sprint past folks at the finish instead of people running past me in the final yards.  Though I’d be willing to try the swim-run-bike format I most definately would not want to see it become THE format for triathlon, and would not want drafting involved. The formatt would obviously be more dangerous, due to having tired legs from running then criusing at 25 mph on a bike, imagine an IM with this format, running a marathon then biking 112 miles.  At the 2 IM’s I’ve done I have seen several people fall and withstain minor injuries, but imagine the injuries from bonking on a bike.  Also the sprint to the finish though very exciting would be much more dangerous.  But anyway I would give the formatt a shot and try it, say once a year( I race 30 times a year anyway) heck I’d even try a draft-lagal race 1-2 times a year but for the fact that a certian group of people are trying to make it THE format, by putting it in the olympics, thereby upsetting me enourmously and forcing me to stay away from anything related to draft-legal triathlon.  Anyway as far as changing the format to acomadate draft-legal racing or for just a change of pace I think it’s an excellant idea, I just wouldn’t want to see it become THE format for triathlon.  I enjoy trying new things on occasion but hope and plan 90% of the races I do over the next 70  years will be triathlon in the swim-bike(no draft)-run format  which is for me Triathlon in its best form and is the sport that changed my life(more than you could know).  I’ll apolagize now for my rambling and for bringing the draft argument into this thread, but your question was slightly loaded- all IMHO Tim Hignett Buaidh No Bas -Seeking HQ GD and JGB tape trades,YLGM-

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Just a question that nobody seems to want to answer-NOT trying to start anything-I’m just curious- Seems drafting triathlons are here to stay- Why not do the run second and the bike last??Seems it would eliminate the team problem.. Peter

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Well… you probably are going to start something.  This is something that is a very toutchy subject for most triathletes.  The thing about triathlons that I hold most dear is that it is a test of how far I can push myself.  If you bring drafting in, it isn’t just a test of oneself… it becomes a team effort on the bike.  I feel that "team" efforts belong in cycling, not in triathlons.  Also…. I like the present triathlon format, I wouldn’t change it for the world.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just a question that nobody seems to want to answer-NOT trying to start anything-I’m just curious- Seems drafting triathlons are here to stay- Why not do the run second and the bike last??Seems it would eliminate the team problem.. Peter

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Question:

My good friend and loyal training partner just got a job offer in Chattanooga, TN and being the stud triathlete that he is, he is wondering about the tri scene there.  Any information on training groups or tri clubs would be great.  For that matter any general info about living and training there would be greatly appreciated. Please post or email me and I will be sure that he gets the info. Thanks in advance, Todd Gerlach — Todd Gerlach ISSC Austin AIX Support Team                   __o       o    

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My good friend and loyal training partner just got a job offer in Chattanooga, TN and being the stud triathlete that he is, he is wondering about the tri scene there.  Any information on training groups or tri clubs would be great.  For that matter any general info about living and training there would be greatly appreciated.

I’m over in Music city so I don’t know any particulars except they do have several pretty good races over there.  I hope that your tribuddy likes the hills because the only flat spotts in Chat town are on the Cumberland river on a calm day!!! No kidding. Good Luck, Russ Arnold

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Question:

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Question:

Having read Ruth’s posts for some time now and having had the pleasure of meeting her in person, I find the suggestion that she in some way lacks compassion to be absurd.  And the implication that this "little old lady" is battering defenseless triathletes during the swim is LOL-type funny. Timothy — Timothy Gotsick

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Matthew, You are certainly entitled to your opinions and your right to voice them. And as such, kindly respect the views and opinions of others. Understand also that you may represent a minority view. AJ Calabrese – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Forgive me if I hold of my applause on this woman. Given the views she has been espousing recently here regarding the tragedy that occurred at Mrs. T’s, it may be a little dubious to some (at least me) about how perhaps she achieved some of those results and the price others may have paid who got in her way at a swim start. I don’t really give a hoot about place finishes and age-group performances. I compete in Triatholons to see what I myself am capable of doing and don’t really care how I do versus the competition. When you start to lose your humanity and compassion for other people — as some of Ruth’s comment on this topic certainly do reek of!!!!! — who gives a shit what place that person comes in some age group competition. Just my thoughts. Matthew

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Matthew, You are certainly entitled to your opinions and your right to voice them. And as such, kindly respect the views and opinions of others. Understand also that you may represent a minority view. AJ Calabrese

AJ         To be honest, I do not understand the purpose of your message at all.         No where do I say that Ruth should not be able to express her opinions. No where do I come close to imply such a thought. People should be free to say whatever it is that they wish to say, with IMHO some exceptions for libel and an inciting a riot. I respect Ruth’s right to say anything at all that falls within those very very very broad bounds.         And of course that right should be extended to those whose opinions are within the minority as well.         As to what relevance it has whether my views are in the minority or the majority is beyond me. Sometimes the majority is right. Sometimes it is wrong.         And sometimes majority views are just interested in preserving the status quo which benefits it. The majority flexing its collective muscle. And this may well be the case here. Matthew

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Good one, Ruth! BTW, I enjoyed the article in triathlete very much. Ed

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Gotsick) says: Having read Ruth’s posts for some time now and having had the pleasure of meeting her in person, I find the suggestion that she in some way lacks compassion to be absurd.  And the implication that this "little old lady" is battering defenseless triathletes during the swim is LOL-type funny. Timothy

You obviously have never had the pleasure of seeing Ruth in the weight room. She is fully capable of battering senseless whomever and whatever has the misfortune to get in her way. I’m not really joking either- impressive is putting it lightly. Jeff Mitchell Penn State University btw- Ruth- that was me on the bike on whitehall last monday- good to      see you again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Timothy Gotsick) says: Having read Ruth’s posts for some time now and having had the pleasure of meeting her in person, I find the suggestion that she in some way lacks compassion to be absurd.  And the implication that this "little old lady" is battering defenseless triathletes during the swim is LOL-type funny. Timothy You obviously have never had the pleasure of seeing Ruth in the weight room. She is fully capable of battering senseless whomever and whatever has the misfortune to get in her way. I’m not really joking either- impressive is putting it lightly. Jeff Mitchell Penn State University

Hey, Jeff! Just because she’s "capable" doesn’t mean she *does* it! Can we please stop this Ruth-bashing and give the woman the credit and respect she is due? -Shelley

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Hi Shelley I must confess(#5?) that I sent Jeff a note saying that his post about my ability to bash everyone, based on my performance in the weight room, was fun to read.  I also accused TGCarlson of selling me short, suggesting that I lacked true pummeling ability, for which he apologized.  The whole idea that I somehow place well in triathlons as a result of my aggressive swimming is just too funny not to enjoy. Ruth "IronGal" Kazez

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She’s a little old lady…..

Score:   Kazez 1, Publish 0

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I second Tricias’s comments on this string. Why not go back and read Ruth’s comments in context? I find it laughingly implausible that Ruth or anyone in her age group got their success crawling over the backs of other swimmers. Timothy Carlson

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a great article about Ruth!  It’s wonderful to see such a talented and dedicated senior age grouper get so much well-deserved ink! –Lee (In awe of Ruth) Crumbaugh Forgive me if I hold of my applause on this woman. Given the views she has been espousing recently here regarding the tragedy that occurred at Mrs. T’s, it may be a little dubious to some (at least me) about how perhaps she achieved some of those results and the price others may have paid who got in her way at a swim start.  When you start to lose your humanity and compassion for other people — as some of Ruth’s comment on this topic certainly do reek of!!!!! — who gives a shit what place that person comes in some age group competition. Matthew

– Matthew— What views has she "espoused" that you object to?  You certainly seem to be in a hurry to rush to judgment about her; it sounds as if you haven’t even read all of the posts involved—frankly, it sounds as if you’ve only been reading Don Herron’s posts, which have been rife with misinterpretations of other people’s posts and very short on tolerance for other points of view. You imply that Ruth has somehow condoned roughing people up in the swim, which she emphatically did NOT do!   How you ever extracted from any of her posts that she might possibly have engaged in unsportsmanlike conduct in order to achieve her excellent results is beyond me.  Please think carefully before you post personal attacks like this.  Don’t leap before you look at all the facts, which is exactly what the person who started this entire thread seems to be all too eager to do. Peace! Tricia                                    _                       o         –    o      ’               /|_      -    </_  `     ‘          _ / _       – __/    /o_         (( )  ( ))       –  /

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What a great article about Ruth!  It’s wonderful to see such a talented and dedicated senior age grouper get so much well-deserved ink! "She’s a little old lady from Pennsylvania.  Go baby, go baby, go baby go!" to paraphrase the Beach Boys. –Lee (In awe of Ruth) Crumbaugh

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What a great article about Ruth!  It’s wonderful to see such a talented and dedicated senior age grouper get so much well-deserved ink! "She’s a little old lady from Pennsylvania.  Go baby, go baby, go baby go!" to paraphrase the Beach Boys. –Lee (In awe of Ruth) Crumbaugh

Forgive me if I hold of my applause on this woman. Given the views she has been espousing recently here regarding the tragedy that occurred at Mrs. T’s, it may be a little dubious to some (at least me) about how perhaps she achieved some of those results and the price others may have paid who got in her way at a swim start. I don’t really give a hoot about place finishes and age-group performances. I compete in Triatholons to see what I myself am capable of doing and don’t really care how I do versus the competition. When you start to lose your humanity and compassion for other people — as some of Ruth’s comment on this topic certainly do reek of!!!!! — who gives a shit what place that person comes in some age group competition. Just my thoughts. Matthew

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Our own r.s.t.-er, Ruth Kazez, is featured in the new issue of Triathlete.  Finally that magazine is printing some interesting information!  Good luck at Ironman, Ruth!      TriGal

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She’s a little old lady…..

he said, not so softly, assuming she was hard of hearing.  She rocked her chair slowly, tugging at the flowered apron that covered her smooth gastrocs, and offered the nice young man another tidbit of Powerbar. "No," he said, "gotta run, doing a century today."  "A century?  Why, no, I’m not there yet."  He thought she’s gotta be close, all those wrinkles and white hair.  He looked closely at her sleeves; strange bulge above the elbows, in the area of the biceps.  These old gals have fat in funny places.  He explained he was going for a bike ride.  "Oh isn’t that nice.  I know how to ride too.  May I come along?"  Geez, he thought, she’ll either be using training wheels or an oversize trike. He didn’t know how to say no, figured the ordeal would be over in a minute.  She whipped off her apron.  Between the wrinkles were the quads he’d be working for all year in the weight room.  One foot in the left pedal, she swung the other leg over.  "Watch it, sonny, she spat out," and he wiped the dust from all over himself and his bike. Ruth Kazez

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Question:

I registered for the Cameron Springs/Indy Triathlon well in advance and have not received any pre-race info.  Since it is this weekend I am a little worried, and also since it is my first triathlon, I don’t really know what to expect.  My question is, has anyone else who has entered this event received their info yet?  Maybe I’m just being paranoid. Thanks, Brad Wallin

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I’m looking for someone to share a ride with for this weekend at the Cameron Springs Triathlon in Indy, Indiana. I live in Cleveland, Ohio. Email or call me if you’re going out there this weekend. Thanks, Scott — =         __o        Scott J. Erdman              Allen-Bradley Company      = =~~~~~~    /        "Just Tri It!"                                          =

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