Question:

I want to hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon next year. I want to converse with other Type I diabetics about their experiences (good and bad) in hiking the Canyon. What type of insulin do you take ? How did you adjsut it ?

Response:

I want to hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon next year. I want to converse with other Type I diabetics about their experiences (good and bad) in hiking the Canyon. What type of insulin do you take ? How did you adjsut it ?

Hi Jenn, I used to be a member of the International Diabetic Athletes Association.   There was a quarterly newsletter they sent out from Phenix, Arizona, with great tips for type 1 athletes.  They seem to have changed their name to DESA: Diabetes, Exercise and Sports Association.  It looks like Paula Harper, RN, CDE and T1, past president of IDAA is still active in DESA.   I’d try to ask her if she has contacts that could help you.  (I went to the Grand Canyon in May, 2000.  We looked at that trail to the river, decided we were not going to carry enough water to keep us hydrated down and back.   So we bought tee shirts and took pictures.) Check out and join DESA at: http://www.diabetes-exercise.org/index.asp They seem to have a members message board that would be useful as well. It’s worth it to learn the DM tricks they use, — Jim Dumas T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely hypoglycemic: <1/mo. lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate exercise, typically <6% HbA1c

Response:

Cool. Once again another reason to read these groups. I signed right up! Thanks Jim! — t2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete) The Joy that isn’t shared,  I’ve heard, dies young. —-  Anne Sexton  —-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon next year. I want to converse with other Type I diabetics about their experiences (good and bad) in hiking the Canyon. What type of insulin do you take ? How did you adjsut it ? Hi Jenn, I used to be a member of the International Diabetic Athletes Association. There was a quarterly newsletter they sent out from Phenix, Arizona, with great tips for type 1 athletes.  They seem to have changed their name to DESA: Diabetes, Exercise and Sports Association.  It looks like Paula Harper, RN, CDE and T1, past president of IDAA is still active in DESA. I’d try to ask her if she has contacts that could help you.  (I went to the Grand Canyon in May, 2000.  We looked at that trail to the river, decided we were not going to carry enough water to keep us hydrated down and back. So we bought tee shirts and took pictures.) Check out and join DESA at: http://www.diabetes-exercise.org/index.asp They seem to have a members message board that would be useful as well. It’s worth it to learn the DM tricks they use, — Jim Dumas T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely hypoglycemic: <1/mo. lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate exercise, typically <6% HbA1c

Response:

Cool. Once again another reason to read these groups. I signed right up! Thanks Jim!

You’re welcome, geabbott. I remember reading one newsletter (8 page newspaper) with an article by a European Nordic skier.  He wore a BG meter around his neck to keep it warm so the low temperature error would be defeated for assays in the wilds.  I think it was an Elite. Pretty slick stuff and worth the membership, — Jim Dumas T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely hypoglycemic: <1/mo. lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate exercise, typically <6% HbA1c

Response:

I want to hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon next year. I want to converse with other Type I diabetics about their experiences (good and bad) in hiking the Canyon. What type of insulin do you take ? How did you adjsut it ?

I believe that answer to that question is that you need to find out by trial and error.  The safest way to do this is with small, incremental adjustments to your insulin dose and/or carb intake during and in the few hours following exercise.   As for my own situation, I am a triathlete with type 1.  My normal insulin dose is 6 or 8 units of Lantus per day plus 1 unit of regular or fast-acting for every 30 grams of carbs I am eating.  My typical breakfast is 90 g carbs with 3 units of insulin if I don’t run in the morning.  If I do run in the morning, I will consume 15 – 20g carbs (for which I do not inject insulin) immediately before the run.  When I am through running, I inject 2 units of insulin, which will cover anywhere from 90 – 110 grams of carbs, depending on how hard and how far I’ve run.  If I come up a little short or over on the carbs, it will not push my blood sugar as far from the normal range as it would if I hadn’t run. The other thing I have noticed is that low-intensity exercise will decrease my blood sugar faster than a series of high-intensity bursts. Both will increase insulin sensitivity in the hours that follow.

Response:

I want to hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon next year. I want to converse with other Type I diabetics about their experiences (good and bad) in hiking the Canyon. What type of insulin do you take ? How did you adjust it ?

It might be worthwhile to organize a group tour/hike of the Grand Canyon for diabetics. Then the participants could shout out their opinions in the Grand Canyon instead of only on a NG message board. It could even be possible to get sponsorship from insulin suppliers, meter companies, or pump manufacturers, with free supplies and/or other costs for participants. Good promotional publicity for their products and perhaps an all expense paid vacation for those who sign up ! Might even be able to get a doctor to go along. It would certainly be a great promotional vehicle for the pump suppliers, and perhaps a way to get a free pump for those of us who can’t afford one. Plus a great trip.

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Question:

Well, now I don’t feel so bad.  I set up the VCR (I thought) to record the show and when I got home realized I didn’t press the timer button, Darn!  No recording. Sorry I missed the fishing show. Just checked out ESPN’s listings and triathlon is nowhere to be found. Wayne

| Okay, am I the only one who got home and realized that he’d just recorded a | one-hour fishing show? | | Good god. | |

Response:

They are re-broadcasting it on Tuesday (10/25) afternoon…. 2pm I think? bd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, now I don’t feel so bad.  I set up the VCR (I thought) to record the show and when I got home realized I didn’t press the timer button, Darn!  No recording. Sorry I missed the fishing show. Just checked out ESPN’s listings and triathlon is nowhere to be found. Wayne | Okay, am I the only one who got home and realized that he’d just recorded a | one-hour fishing show? | | Good god. | |

Response:

They are re-broadcasting it on Tuesday (10/25) afternoon…. 2pm I think?

Best check your local listings.  On the east coast, it is very early Tuesday morning (2-3 AM?). Bob Williams 55-59 Severna Park, MD

Response:

They are re-broadcasting it on Tuesday (10/25) afternoon…. 2pm I think? Best check your local listings.  On the east coast, it is very early Tuesday morning (2-3 AM?). Bob Williams 55-59 Severna Park, MD

The ironmanlive.com homepage says the rebroadcast will occur on Tuesday 10/24 at 3:00am.  However, you better check your local listings, as this site also says the original broadcast was to be shown on Sunday 10/22 at 4:30pm.  (All times are EST)

Before you buy.

Response:

On insideri.com they reported that the original broadcast was rescheduled for 2-3pm. Luckily, my girlfriend is smarted than me and got it recorded. They did not mention anything about the rebroadcast being rescheduled or not. According to my local listings it’s on at 2:00am central time. Go to: WWW.TVGRID.GO.COM to see if that corrisponds with your local listings. Hope this helps! Jay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, am I the only one who got home and realized that he’d just recorded a one-hour fishing show? Good god.

Response:

make that 10/24 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They are re-broadcasting it on Tuesday (10/25) afternoon…. 2pm I think? bd Well, now I don’t feel so bad.  I set up the VCR (I thought) to record the show and when I got home realized I didn’t press the timer button, Darn!  No recording. Sorry I missed the fishing show. Just checked out ESPN’s listings and triathlon is nowhere to be found. Wayne | Okay, am I the only one who got home and realized that he’d just recorded a | one-hour fishing show? | | Good god. | |

Response:

Okay, am I the only one who got home and realized that he’d just recorded a one-hour fishing show? Good god.

Response:

I saw part of the IMUSA broadcast.  They had it on in our runners club (Montgomery County Road Runners) hospitality suite after the Marine Corp. Marathon.  I was so happy to see that my family was on the broadcast since they volunteered at one of the water stops.  Right in a row my son, my wife, and my daughter, arms extended offering Gatorade, and Gu.  Then to top it off I was in the broadcast (twice) behind the woman that was in second place.  Dave Scott forgot to mention my name though.  I don

Question:

This is an easy one … don’t wear shoes or socks!!! Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am training for a 1/2 marathon at the end of a 1/2 ironman tri in September here in Florida.  I am up to 9-10 miles in 85 degree weather (don’t worry, I carry plenty of water, incorporate water stops, and maximize my shade).  My problem is that my socks and shoes are squishing with sweat towards the end of a long run. This causes my socks to bunch up and creates blisters. I’m not sure what else I could do short of stopping & changing socks.  Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike E. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Sorry, I should have told you that my name isn’t Abbebe Bikila…. Mike E. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is an easy one … don’t wear shoes or socks!!! Mike I am training for a 1/2 marathon at the end of a 1/2 ironman tri in September here in Florida.  I am up to 9-10 miles in 85 degree weather (don’t worry, I carry plenty of water, incorporate water stops, and maximize my shade).  My problem is that my socks and shoes are squishing with sweat towards the end of a long run. This causes my socks to bunch up and creates blisters. I’m not sure what else I could do short of stopping & changing socks.  Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike E. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I believe this problem was discussed before (a couple weeks ago) so you might want to use Deja.com to look at these old messages.  I’m not sure what people suggested (I do remember someone suggesting a funnel device which attach to your calves which redircts the flow of water around your shoes … not very practical, though!!). Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry, I should have told you that my name isn’t Abbebe Bikila…. Mike E. This is an easy one … don’t wear shoes or socks!!! Mike I am training for a 1/2 marathon at the end of a 1/2 ironman tri in September here in Florida.  I am up to 9-10 miles in 85 degree weather (don’t worry, I carry plenty of water, incorporate water stops, and maximize my shade).  My problem is that my socks and shoes are squishing with sweat towards the end of a long run. This causes my socks to bunch up and creates blisters. I’m not sure what else I could do short of stopping & changing socks.  Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike E. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I am training for a 1/2 marathon at the end of a 1/2 ironman tri in September here in Florida.  I am up to 9-10 miles in 85 degree weather (don’t worry, I carry plenty of water, incorporate water stops, and maximize my shade).  My problem is that my socks and shoes are squishing with sweat towards the end of a long run. This causes my socks to bunch up and creates blisters. I’m not sure what else I could do short of stopping & changing socks.  Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike E.

I also get Squishy shoes here in Chattanooga, when I run more than 5 miles or so. I wear cool-max socks, and on long runs I make sure they fit good and are realitivly new. My shoes get just as wet but the socks stay in place. Rick

Response:

Mike wrote in part ….My problem is that my socks and shoes are squishing with sweat towards the end of a long run. This causes my socks to bunch up and creates blisters. I’m not sure what else I could do short of stopping & changing socks.  Any suggestions?

On a long run in hot weather, my shoes get so wet, people have actually asked me if it’s raining outside.  Once during Grandma’s marathon, I stopped and took my socks off and wrung them out!  For the last couple of years, I have been wearing Ultimax Ironman Triathlon socks and although my shoes still get soaking wet, no sock bunching or blisters. Jim

Response:

Thanks, I should have searched!!! It looks like I either wear funnels, go barefoot, or keep squishing! Thanks, Mike E. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe this problem was discussed before (a couple weeks ago) so you might want to use Deja.com to look at these old messages.  I’m not sure what people suggested (I do remember someone suggesting a funnel device which attach to your calves which redircts the flow of water around your shoes … not very practical, though!!). Mike Sorry, I should have told you that my name isn’t Abbebe Bikila…. Mike E. This is an easy one … don’t wear shoes or socks!!! Mike I am training for a 1/2 marathon at the end of a 1/2 ironman tri in September here in Florida.  I am up to 9-10 miles in 85 degree weather (don’t worry, I carry plenty of water, incorporate water stops, and maximize my shade).  My problem is that my socks and shoes are squishing with sweat towards the end of a long run. This causes my socks to bunch up and creates blisters. I’m not sure what else I could do short of stopping & changing socks.  Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike E. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I am training for a 1/2 marathon at the end of a 1/2 ironman tri in September here in Florida.  I am up to 9-10 miles in 85 degree

Well, your socks  _are_ going to be soaking wet and your shoes wet and smelly if you run under those conditions! By running in bare feet, the sweat from your feet will naturally disperse, and the wetness and discomfort from sodden socks and smelly shoes will be a thing of the past.  It doesn’t take long to accustom yourself to running barefoot.  It’s more comfortable than running in shoes, you have more control, and it’s healthier for you. Try it.  You might like it. Andrew Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I am training for a 1/2 marathon at the end of a 1/2 ironman tri in September here in Florida.  I am up to 9-10 miles in 85 degree weather (don’t worry, I carry plenty of water, incorporate water stops, and maximize my shade).  My problem is that my socks and shoes are squishing with sweat towards the end of a long run. This causes my socks to bunch up and creates blisters. I’m not sure what else I could do short of stopping & changing socks.  Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike E. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

I live and train in a front range community in colorado.  The main events I am planning to compete in this year are the Buffalo Springs Lake 1/2 IronMan in Lubbock, TX. on June, 27th and the Boulder Peak Triathlon in Boulder, CO. August 1.  I’m new to colorado and i’m having trouble finding a site that list races.  I’m looking for a race close by for the month of June perferably 2-4 weeks before Buffalo Springs just as a tone up race.  And a race some time in July between Buffalo Springs and Boulder.  If anyone knows of any races along the front range in June/July or a site listing races please let me know. Thanks, Keep Tri-ing

Response:

I live and train in a front range community in colorado.  The main events I am planning to compete in this year are the Buffalo Springs Lake 1/2 IronMan in Lubbock, TX. on June, 27th and the Boulder Peak Triathlon in Boulder, CO. August 1.  I’m new to colorado and i’m having trouble finding a site that list races.  I’m looking for a race close by for the month of June perferably 2-4 weeks before Buffalo Springs just as a tone up race.  And a race some time in July between Buffalo Springs and Boulder.  If anyone knows of any races along the front range in June/July or a site listing races please let me know.

Hey, try http://www.racingunderground.com/multiindex.html for a list of regional multisport events. The Longmont Tri is June 6th. Wendy —          "Life is pain, Highness.  Anyone who says differently              is selling something." — The Princess Bride          

Question:

I noticed the television listings in the paper today show a Triathlon on ESPN tonight at 1:30 AM.  Does anyone know if this is just repeat of something they’ve already shown or something new?

Response:

I noticed the television listings in the paper today show a Triathlon on ESPN tonight at 1:30 AM.  Does anyone know if this is just repeat of something they’ve already shown or something new?

Tuesday, November 25, 1997 – 1:30 AM EST-  ESPN                  SPORT: Track/Field (30 Minutes)               "Waikiki King Race". From Oahu, Hawaii.

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know of a website with a comprehensive list of running trails and venues for cities and towns across the country?  This would seem to be a very useful site, especially for those who travel often, to places where they are not familiar with. There’s nothing worse than spending a week in a town and only finding the REAL trails on the last day…… I have seen sites with lists of running trails in their region, and a few attempts at trying to gather more national info, but nothing very detailed or expansive. This forum would be a good source of info on a plethora of locations, and since running trails/routes rarely expire the list would only need to be added to rather than edited constantly…. Any ideas…volunteers? I’m heading off to Honolulu, Las Vegas, Ames IO, and Texas Panhandle over the next 2 months…..gimme your best runs there locals! Thom Trimble …..our web site has some nice trail maps for visitors to the SF Bay Area…….

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know of a website with a comprehensive list of running trails and venues for cities and towns across the country?  This would seem to be a very useful site, especially for those who travel often, to places where they are not familiar with. There’s nothing worse than spending a week in a town and only finding the REAL trails on the last day…… I have seen sites with lists of running trails in their region, and a few attempts at trying to gather more national info, but nothing very detailed or expansive. This forum would be a good source of info on a plethora of locations, and since running trails/routes rarely expire the list would only need to be added to rather than edited constantly…. Any ideas…volunteers? I’m heading off to Honolulu, Las Vegas, Ames IO, and Texas Panhandle over the next 2 months…..gimme your best runs there locals! Thom Trimble …..our web site has some nice trail maps for visitors to the SF Bay Area…….

Thom– There is a site with a comprehensive listing of running trails (both paved and unpaved) in the Southwestern states of Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and New Mexico.  Check it out at: http://www.runningnetwork.com/RunTriNews You will find the Trail Listing under the Resources section (you’ll have to scroll down to the bottom of that section and click on the "View Past Articles" option — there’s a lot of other info in that section). Each Trail Listing contains the following information: Name of trail, City and State, how to find it, length, type of course (loop – out and back, etc.), surface (dirt, paved, etc.), terrain, and most include some comments about what to expect on the trail. This is, by far, the most comprehensive listing of trails for the Southwest.  I encourage anyone who lives in Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas, or New Mexico (or will be traveling to those states) to check it out! Also, I would be interested in working with anyone who wanted to create a national listing of trails.  However, I would remind anyone wishing to do so that the trail information on the RTN Web Site is protected under copyright laws. Lance Phegley Editor Runner Triathlete News

Response:

Question:

Anyone know the date for Ironman Hawaii 97′ ? Thanks!

Response:

October 18 is the confirmed date for the Ironman Triathlon World Championship in 1997… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know the date for Ironman Hawaii 97′ ? Thanks!

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know of a company other than HED that makes a rear disk wheel in a clincher? — Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums Talkway – http://www.talkway.com – Talk more ways (sm)

Response:

Does anyone know of a company other than HED that makes a rear disk wheel in a clincher?

Corima http://www.corima.com/corima/GB/default.html —  Gus Coll                     o    "Life is short.                   __o       </_    Learn fast!"     /o__       _ <_     __/      

Response:

Is anyone out there????? — TriWebb Webb Anderson Brandon, MS

Response:

No, I don’t think so.

Response:

Is anyone out there????? — TriWebb Webb Anderson Brandon, MS

Just the Gods, geeks and good old boys of triathlon.  What is it that you would ask of us? –Lee ("Not a Tri-God, just a Tri-Guy") Crumbaugh

Response:

Question:

: Our wetsuits are advertised as 4.5mm, but are actually 5.0mm Why do you advertise imprecisely?   Just wondering.

Response:

<<Why do you advertise imprecisely?   Just wondering. It’s kind of a money thing.  We technically buy and pay for 4.5mm rubber from our rubber manufacturer that we use for this specific type of rubber.  We give him specs that we want, which happen to be 5mm.  He builds us the rubber to our specs.  It’s a weird business thing that has evolved over many years with this rubber supplier.  However, since the invoices say 4.5mm, we feel it only appropriate to put this on our catalogs. QRman

Response:

<<Seriously, what is the density range of rubber used in wetsuits?  What <<kind of tradeoff is there between density/pliability and other important <<factors ? So long as the rubber is durable there is no downside to rubber which is lighter and more pliable.  It floats higher, it stretches more, and generally yields a wetsuit more comfortable for the given amount of rubber. We designate certain parts of our wetsuit "float panels", and most of the chest, upper torso, and legs are what we wish to float.  This rubber will be about 5mm thick in our suits, and will be made of rubber which has a specific gravity of .15, which means about one-sixth the density of water.  Standard neoprene has a specific gravity of about .20 to .25, which is from one-fifth to one-fourth the density of water.   QRman

Response:

I was interested in buying a Richard Brown hammerhead wetsuit. As this is my first triathlon wetsuit do you think their is a big difference between a 4mm thick suit and a 5mm suit. Will I notice a signifigant difference ? Note I am of average swimming ability, i do tend to drag my legs somewhat though.                      Tired of freezing my unmentionables off . — Paul Yeung                                  

Response:

<<I was interested in buying a Richard Brown hammerhead wetsuit. As this << <<is my first triathlon wetsuit do you think their is a big difference << <<between a 4mm thick suit and a 5mm suit. Will I notice a signifigant << <<difference ? Note I am of average swimming ability, i do tend to drag my << <<legs somewhat though. depends on what kind of rubber it is.  if it is light density rubber, it would be fine.  if regular density, it’ll be warm enough but not quite as fast.  we advertise ours as 4.5mm light density rubber in the areas where flotation is greatest, but ours is really 5mm.  5mm sections in the front of the suit will really float you if the rubber is light density, however, frankly, there is only one rubber manufacturer in the world who really makes bona-fide light density rubber, and richard browne does not use it. i believe his wetsuits are made by sheiko, as are peformance’ wetsuits, and these taiwanese-made wetsuits are okay, however sheiko won’t make a wetsuit for you unless you use their proprietary rubber, which is very good rubber, but not up to the technical specs of some of the other rubber manufacturers. this does help keep the price of the richard brown and the performance wetsuit down, however.  most of our rubber is japanese, and the strength of the yen is killing us.  we are about to raise our prices by 10-15% to compensate for it, which will hit the consumers in a few weeks.  i doubt that those manufacturers who are using taiwanese rubber will have to undergo a similar price increase. qrMAN

Response:

<<I was interested in buying a Richard Brown hammerhead wetsuit. As this << <<is my first triathlon wetsuit do you think their is a big difference << <<between a 4mm thick suit and a 5mm suit. Will I notice a signifigant << <<difference ? Note I am of average swimming ability, i do tend to drag my << <<legs somewhat though. << <<                     Tired of freezing my unmentionables off . You should first make sure your unquestionables are covered sufficiently.   Above and beyond that, you should consider where the thick rubber is, and if that suits your style of swimming.  Our wetsuits are advertised as 4.5mm, but are actually 5.0mm, and are of a lighter density rubber than the Richard Browne, so they float higher still.  You should also consider where it is you sink, which is in your case the legs.  Therefore, your particular suit should have thick rubber from your knees down.  The lighter density rubber we use is also more pliable, and so you can have upwards of 5.0mm of rubber in your ankles and the wetsuit, when wet, will still come off easily.  A standard density rubber in that thickness would be difficult to get off your ankles. I’m being so gosh darn blatant right now.  I should be flamed for this. Kazez, please flame me. QRman

Response:

: I’m being so gosh darn blatant right now.  I should be flamed for this. : Kazez, please flame me. : QRman qRmaN, Innies don’t get flamed.  Just to be sure, we’ll make you lift        up your shirt at Wildflower. Eric

Response:

<— blantant commercial stuff deleted  —- The lighter density rubber we use is also more pliable, and so you can have upwards of 5.0mm of rubber in your ankles and the wetsuit, when wet, will still come off easily.  A standard density rubber in that thickness would be difficult to get off your ankles.

Seriously, what is the density range of rubber used in wetsuits?  What kind of tradeoff is there between density/pliability and other important factors ? Pat    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

Response:

Question:

I need to get my two cents in here as well.  I experienced severe, I mean SEVERE, cramps at appromixately mile 90 of the bike segment.  My quads, hamstrings, calves and even my fingers curled up like pretzels.  I am an experienced triathlete (finished over 100 races, 10 Ironman’s, including the blast furnace in Kona) and have never, ever cramped up to that degree.  These were so bad I had to withdraw from the race and get a ride in the aid car back to the medical tent, where I eventually recovered after a couple of hours of spasms and a couple of IV’s.  I have only dropped out of 1 other race in my life, and that was after a bike crash, so to DNF at IMC was extremely disapointing, to say the least.  I realize that correlation does not prove causation, but, this was the first time I have ever cramped, and also the first time I have ever used Endura.  I do not believe that hydration was a major contributor as I had downed approximately 10 bottles of fluid, and had urinated 3 times on the bike.   I am at a loss to explain this, so I would be interested in hearing other opinions, theories, etc.                            Jon Hammermeister                            Univ. of Idaho

Response:

I need to get my two cents in here as well.  I experienced severe, I mean SEVERE, cramps at appromixately mile 90 of the bike segment.  My quads, hamstrings, calves and even my fingers curled up like pretzels. … and also the first time I have ever used Endura.  I do not believe that hydration was a major contributor as I had downed approximately 10 bottles of fluid, and had urinated 3 times on the bike.  

You had hyponatremia, a loss of sodium (which Endura is low in) which resulted in the inability to retain water and dehydration. Salty foods (like Gatorade) would have prevented it.  Heat training would also help by reducing the concentration of sodium lost in sweat. The I.V.’s you received replaced both water and sodium. I bet that the large number of illnesses at Ironman Canada were caused by immunosupression from the stress of hyponatremia-induced dehydration.  I believe that most forms of stress suppress the immune system, such as heat, cold, hunger, lack of sleep, sunburn, emotional stress, etc. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

Response:

(Matt Mahoney) writes:

You had hyponatremia, a loss of sodium (which Endura is low in) which resulted in the inability to retain water and dehydration. Salty foods (like Gatorade) would have prevented it.  Heat training would also help by reducing the concentration of sodium lost in sweat. The I.V.’s you received replaced both water and sodium. Matt: Endura’s sodium content is posted. Is this really that much lower than Gatorade that it could be linked to this many problems? Any of you Ph.D’s have any scientific info on this?

Response:

Endura’s sodium content is posted. Is this really that much lower than Gatorade that it could be linked to this many problems?

 Actually, I checked because I was curious about this too.  Gatorade has 110mg / 8oz serving.  Cytomax has only  80mg / 16oz serving.  I’m not sure what the serving  size for Endura was but I would guess that it was  16oz (closer to a water bottle size) and it was 92 mg (?).  As you can see Gatorade has almost 3 times as much as  Cytomax and twice as much as Endura.  I consider that  a BIG difference over the course of and Ironman where  you are taking in gallons of fluids.  John K.

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Were any volunteers at IMC sick?  How about the regular citizens of Penticton(sp)? "’Be a terrific innovation if you could get your mind to stretch a little further than the next wise crack." "Y’know, I tried that once, but it didn’t snap back into place." —Katharine Hepburn & Eve Arden in "Stage Door" (1937)    

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I didn’t get sick before, during or after the race, but… I got wicked stomach cramps at mile 23 that were alleviated by a rather urgent trip to the Portajohn.  From there on I was fine.  No dehydration or whatever.   I really think the diarrhea/stomach problems were caused by the Endura, as I never have had anything like this with Gatorade, and I found myself CRAVING salt during the run.   I was well hydrated throughout the race, judging by my 20-30 (yes that many) piss stops.  Next IM, I’ll drink less.   Rolf Arands, Ph.D.

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<deleted good discussion on salts Thanks for the input.  I agree that salt stripping was probably a factor here for alot of us.   A question for Mark Jenkins: From a muscle operation standpoint, what effect would the loss of salts (esp sodium) have on the function of the muscles?  And on the CV system? (If you answered these already, please let me know…) I did note many people with salt crystals all over there faces, and I **scraped** them off myself as well.  I think the salt loss was a major factor, one I only vaguely anticipated.  Next year – SALTINES, pretzels, and maybe some Chinese food… It would be cool if there were a performance drink/food with the following specs: easily digested/absorbed PROPER electrolyte replacement (including sodium) minimal gastric upset **reduced** load of vitamins per serving Rolf Arands

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Sako) writes:

Maybe JJ could look into this for us.  I’d hate for us to decide that xxx or yyy were the problem without all the facts (although I do think OJ is guilty … ooops … being geeky again).  Besides the crowded 2nd swim leg, IMC is my favorite race. I’ve gone about as far as I can go with this. I would need to see test results of Penticton water, Endura used at the race (Endura is doing that) and all other factors to come to a correct conclusion. I do think that the "Ironman’s Disease" is kind of a catchy phrase though…. JJ

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I really think the diarrhea/stomach problems were caused by the Endura, as I never have had anything like this with Gatorade, and I found myself CRAVING salt during the run.   I was well hydrated throughout the race, judging by my 20-30 (yes that many) piss stops.  Next IM, I’ll drink less.  

Not so fast, there.  When you lose sodium, you are unable to retain water. I thought I was hydrated at a hot (high 80’s, sunny) 24 hour run last May because I was drinking plenty of water (1.8 quarts/hour) and was urinating clear every hour.  Silly me.  After 11 hours I left the track utterly fatigued and 5 pounds lighter.  After supper and 8 hours sleep I continued the race, drank Gatorade (high in sodium), and felt great, even though I didn’t pee for the next 6 hours. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

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I really think the diarrhea/stomach problems were caused by the Endura, as I never have had anything like this with Gatorade, and I found myself CRAVING salt during the run.   I was well hydrated throughout the race, judging by my 20-30 (yes that many) piss stops.  Next IM, I’ll drink less.   Not so fast, there.  When you lose sodium, you are unable to retain water. I thought I was hydrated at a hot (high 80’s, sunny) 24 hour run last May because I was drinking plenty of water (1.8 quarts/hour) and was urinating clear every hour.  Silly me.  After 11 hours I left the track utterly fatigued and 5 pounds lighter.  After supper and 8 hours sleep I continued the race, drank Gatorade (high in sodium), and felt great, even though I didn’t pee for the next 6 hours.

I’ll have to agree with Matt.  I experienced the same thing. I drank alot, and pissed alot (clear), but I "felt" like I was dehydrated.  I was totally fatigued and had trouble moving my legs etc.  I think the water was just passing through. My theory (no facts, data, or other evidence) is that the high Cl- in the water drew out the Na+, and K+ and mobilized it into the bloodstream in a higher amount.  We then sweated it out in much higher volumes than normal and were unable to replace them. Water wasn’t the problem.. it was the electrolytes. John K.

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One person was saying that there are rumors that the medical personnel were blaming the fluid replacement drink for an increase in dehydration and diarehha (sp?) due to its high magnisium content and minimal (none) sodium content.  I The problem with Endura is that you can’t mix it with any solid food, or you will get a diarrhoea.  This left you with these choices:

I trained all summer w/ endura and solid food and had no problems.  I also did IMC and drank endura and ate lots and had no problems … in fact nutritionally speaking I had none of the problems that I experienced in my previous 2 IMC’s. Sounds to me that there may have been a couple of problems, dehydration, diareahahahaha, other flu like symptoms … which may or not be related. There have also been a couple of good *possible* culprits: endura, bad h2o (whether it’s ghiardia or Penticton sewage, or too many IronHeads peeing in their wetsuits), or maybe just a virus. [geeky humor mode on] Hmmm "just a virus" … actually that might be the best thing, we could be become famous by naming it IronMan’s disease, kind of like Legionarres disease. [geek mode off] Maybe JJ could look into this for us.  I’d hate for us to decide that xxx or yyy were the problem without all the facts (although I do think OJ is guilty … ooops … being geeky again).  Besides the crowded 2nd swim leg, IMC is my favorite race. tony

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  Endura was used last year at this race, with similar temperatures and conditions, with nowhere near the same number of apparent medical tent casualties (if there in fact was a much higher number);  Very interesting…. I had some problems myself and I didn’t drink  very much of the Endura.  I brought plenty of my own and just  got water from most of the aid stations.   Ooh, we could be on to something here.  I drank primarily bottled water from the stores while I was there the week and a half before the race.  I noticed all the adds for bottled water in the area, and how many restaurants and stores had water coolers as opposed to drinking fountains.  So, I got paranoid and bought and drank ONLY bottled water.  On the race course I drank the water they handed me.  

I have some more to add here.  I bought bottled water but did not use it.  (The tap tasted ok).  But after the race my girlfriend was actually more tired than I was.  We also talked to some other racers girlfriends and they said they were really tired too. They (the girlfriends) are all athletes too and drink a lot of water. They all thought it was very odd that they were so tired.  And, theuir fatigue was consistant over the couple of days that we were there. John K.

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One person was saying that there are rumors that the medical personnel were blaming the fluid replacement drink for an increase in dehydration and diarehha (sp?) due to its high magnisium content and minimal (none) sodium content.  I

The problem with Endura is that you can’t mix it with any solid food, or you will get a diarrhoea.  This left you with these choices: 1. Drink Endura and use Endura Optimizer as your calorie source.    I did this, and not having used the Optimizer in training, suffered    a bonk at mile 60.  (the Optimizer has 0.0 fat) 2. Drink plain water and eat your PowerBars, BTU Stokers, etc.  You    might get problems from not taking in sodium.  One female racer    (a friend of a friend) had to be taken into intensive care at    mile 18 of the marathon.  She did not bonk.  She got so low on    sodium that her body shut down (Hypernatremia, I think is what    it’s called).  When I was leaving Penticton on Tuesday, she was    still in the hospital, still unconscious. 3. Carry your own electrolyte drink powder.  Next year I will do this.    However, this is a hassle. I think that this problem is caused by the fact that Unipro has a product that should be used together with Endura Drink — the Optimizer, but because PowerBar sponsors the race and the Optimizer is basically a liqud energy bar, they cannot have it at the race. This makes sense from the marketing point of view, however I would rather see either having Optimizer on the course or having a different electrolyte drink that allows mixing with solid foods. Kostya Vasilyev                                         swim-bike-run SYMANTEC Corp. Development Tools                        eat- eat -eat (408) 446-7165                                          program in C++

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I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why? Jeffrey Justice

I didn’t hear anything.  I heard some people talking before and during the race about how Endura (the on-course replacement fluid) didn’t agree with them.  I drank only water. Christopher Panczyk                              o   _____ ___         Dept. of Chem. Engineering   __/o_     __o     <|    |   |  |  |       Purdue University                     _ <_    _/     |   |__|  |        

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I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? — – I can only speak from my personal IMC experience.  In a nutshell,

     it was hell. I developed this cough right out of the water.  There      was this stuff in my throat that was making it difficult to breath.      I was riding, I coughed and spit this stuff out.  More stuff would      form in my throat.  I coughed and spit it out.  Throughout the bike,      I was doing this.  I had ZERO strength, I mean none.  I was dying,      and couldn’t figure out why.        By the end of the bike, stuff I was coughing up had blood in it.      I took a looooooooooooong transition, and against the medical      tent doctor’s advice, I went out on the run.  The run didn’t      go any better, and I continued coughing and spitting this flem/blood      crap throughout the run.  And I had no energy whatsoever.      The next day, and days that followed, I dealt with a lot of respitory      conjestion, and coughing.  I’m just now feeling closer to 100% than      the 50% that I felt during the race.      I am very dis-appointed with myself to say the least. -RC

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1.  Endura was used last year at this race, with similar temperatures and conditions, with nowhere near the same number of apparent medical tent casualties (if there in fact was a much higher number);  Very interesting…. I had some problems myself and I didn’t drink  very much of the Endura.  I brought plenty of my own and just  got water from most of the aid stations.  

Ooh, we could be on to something here.  I drank primarily bottled water from the stores while I was there the week and a half before the race.  I noticed all the adds for bottled water in the area, and how many restaurants and stores had water coolers as opposed to drinking fountains.  So, I got paranoid and bought and drank ONLY bottled water.  On the race course I drank the water they handed me.   I heard that Okanagan Lake is used both as a drinking water source and the drainage point for their sewage system in Penticton.   I just became a little paranoid and stay away from the tap water, and like I stated in a previous post, I did not have any ill-effects that didn’t come from just being tired after the event. 2.  Apparently there was some kind of virus or beaver fever or something in the drinking water, and as the town had no filtration system, they increased the amount of chlorine to quite a high level, i.e., something approaching pool water (this is what I heard 3rd hand).  I wonder if some smart guy like Mark Jenkins could reply on what a higher amount of chlorine in the water might do (i.e., leach the positive ions, K+, Na+, Ca+, out of one’s system?).  If so, might not this cause a lot of dehydration, along with kidney & liver problems?  

Christopher Panczyk                              o   _____ ___         Dept. of Chem. Engineering   __/o_     __o     <|    |   |  |  |       Purdue University                     _ <_    _/     |   |__|  |        

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1.  Endura was used last year at this race, with similar temperatures and conditions, with nowhere near the same number of apparent medical tent casualties (if there in fact was a much higher number);

  Very interesting…. I had some problems myself and I didn’t drink   very much of the Endura.  I brought plenty of my own and just   got water from most of the aid stations.   2.  Apparently there was some kind of virus or beaver fever or something in the drinking water, and as the town had no filtration system, they increased the amount of chlorine to quite a high level, i.e., something approaching pool water (this is what I heard 3rd hand).  I wonder if some smart guy like Mark Jenkins could reply on what a higher amount of chlorine in the water might do (i.e., leach the positive ions, K+, Na+, Ca+, out of one’s system?).  If so, might not this cause a lot of dehydration, along with kidney & liver problems?  

  This is even more interesting.  I had absolutly no problems with   hydration (I think).  I was going to the bathroom constantly (clear) but   I was having some real muscle problems … electrolyte imbalance??   I do wonder if it was due to the water.  I remember somebody that I   talked to had mentioned the chlorine in the water.  I didn’t notice   it (must be all of the pool water I normally drink).   I was definitly having a good race until my supplies ran out and   I started using theirs (I brought quite a bit)    John K.

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I got seasick during the swim.  I can only blame that on myself though. The water was warm and I wore a long sleeve wet suit.  The TV helicoptors help put an addition chop to the water (beyond what was already there from a mass start of 1350 mad ironmates:)) and the wind kicked up as we passed the first boat which added to the chop.  I stopped at a canoe and blew some peanut butter PR Bar and headed back on my way.   I analyzed the print out on my HRM this morning.  The sickness caused a big drop in heart rate from 150s to 120s, but again, I’d say that’s from me slowing down to get a grip.  Slowed the swim down to 1:15 and took a 7 minute transition. Once on land, there were no additional ill effects.  Bike and run were great; final time 10:34 (oh…to have that swim back again!).

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I didn’t get sick.  But a friend of mine did.  Same result as the other person who was sick all nite. As Dr. Mark pointed out, not only are there lots of people in the same place … I know in years past they have recycled h2o bottles on the bike, and some aid stations ran out of drinking cups, and had to recycle them. There were so many endura bottles this year that I kind of doubt they recycled on the bike, and all the run stations I went thru still had new cups.  I finished 12:35, so I was behind most of the netters there.

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I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why?

JJ, I talked to a few people close to the race the next day they said the there was a much higher number of people in the medical tent then usual (the weather was nothing that extreme). This may have been what the SF Chronicle was referring to. One person was saying that there are rumors that the medical personnel were blaming the fluid replacement drink for an increase in dehydration and diarehha (sp?) due to its high magnisium content and minimal (none) sodium content.  I guess the organizers were not happy at all with the number of people that needed medical attention.   However, if thats not what the SF Chron was reffering to, I would be curious as to what they were talking about.  Other than the above, I had not heard anything about illness. I know that I have been pretty tired and my heart rate can get pretty high at a pretty low level of exercise and my endurance is pretty low, but that would be expected after a race like that.  I expect a couple of weeks (if not more) to recover to a semi-normal level. John K.

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I’ve heard this brewing for the last few days.  Before I’d jump to conclusions about the fluid replacement (Endura) which was used, I’d keep a couple things in mind: 1.  Endura was used last year at this race, with similar temperatures and conditions, with nowhere near the same number of apparent medical tent casualties (if there in fact was a much higher number); 2.  Apparently there was some kind of virus or beaver fever or something in the drinking water, and as the town had no filtration system, they increased the amount of chlorine to quite a high level, i.e., something approaching pool water (this is what I heard 3rd hand).  I wonder if some smart guy like Mark Jenkins could reply on what a higher amount of chlorine in the water might do (i.e., leach the positive ions, K+, Na+, Ca+, out of one’s system?).  If so, might not this cause a lot of dehydration, along with kidney & liver problems?   QRman (amateur speculation)

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I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why? Jeffrey Justice

I got really sick.  In fact, I still am, and not much better than I was ten days ago. I get sinus infections very easily, but this was ridiculous: on the 3rd day of staying in Penticton, I got something in my sinuses (and all we were doing was swimming for 30 min every morning!)  I took some Tylenol but still went into the race a bit sick. Then, in the race, I started feeling really bad in the last 10 miles of the marathon.  I usually finish really strong, but here I really died and was actually falling asleep!  (from exhaustion, I think)  I was very well hydrated, so that was not the problem. After the race, and on the way home to the sunny Bay Area, I felt really exhausted and had to sleep all the time on the planes.  And same thing when I got home: I can’t train and can only eat and sleep (and work). So I think you’re right, Jeffrey: you take 1350 people from all over the globe and 4000 volunteers, put the athletes in a race that really taxes the immune system, and some people (wimps like me) will get sick! Also, I sat in the hot tub after the race, maybe that was a mistake too (and eating ice-cream after the race!) [whining mode off] But I promise I _will_ get well by the time of Hawaii and will kick butt!  Just watch it! [self-encouraging chanting mode off] Kostya Vasilyev                                         swim-bike-run SYMANTEC Corp. Development Tools                        eat- eat -eat (408) 446-7165                                          program in C++

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I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why? Jeffrey Justice

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I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why? Jeffrey Justice

I was up there in Canada but have no knowledge of anyone getting ill. This doesn’t mean much since I only have personal knowledge of a handful of people. If any of you racing ‘Netters became ill or know of anyone who did, please let me know. I can compile an anonymous list and see if there are any common features. It is not too uncommon for Ironman distance events to have more than their share of viral illnesses. This is basically because of two situations — the large meetings that take place and the transient immunosuppression that occurs following an ultra-distance event. There are over 1300 participants from all over the world and the influx of different viruses into a central location greatly facilitates infection. Nonetheless, I am interested in reports from any of you who are sick. Take care.                                                         Mark A. Jenkins, M.D.                                                         specializing in triathlons,                                                         internal medicine,                                                         and sports medicine.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why? Jeffrey Justice I was up there in Canada but have no knowledge of anyone getting ill. This doesn’t mean much since I only have personal knowledge of a handful of people. If any of you racing ‘Netters became ill or know of anyone who did, please let me know. I can compile an anonymous list and see if there are any common features. It is not too uncommon for Ironman distance events to have more than their share of viral illnesses. This is basically because of two situations — the large meetings that take place and the transient immunosuppression that occurs following an ultra-distance event. There are over 1300 participants from all over the world and the influx of different viruses into a central location greatly facilitates infection. Nonetheless, I am interested in reports from any of you who are sick. Take care.                                                        Mark A. Jenkins, M.D.                                                        specializing in triathlons,                                                        internal medicine,                                                        and sports medicine.

I got sick!! Actually I felt great all during the race.  Kept myself well hydrated and well nourished.  I had a few problems that may have contributed to my sickness though.  About 6 miles into the run I sustained a stress fracture in my right leg.  Had to walk/limp the last 20 miles. I wasn’t tired when I finished and I felt fine apart from the severe pain shooting thru my leg.  That night, approx. 2 – 3 hours after finishing, I started feeling nauseated and vomitted once every hour through out the night.  By about 7:00 a.m. the following morning I was starting to come around and was able to take in some food by 8:00 a.m.  Later that day I was feeling close to normal. I don’t feel as though hydration or heat caused my illness since I was going to the bathroom (clear urine) throughout the race, and I was taking sponges and ice for cooling during the ride and run.   I would be interested in knowing if anyone else got sick. Skeksy | The Tuf Skeks, The Council of Skeksys, Skeksyland |

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